Conference quark::human_relations

    An interesting coincidence, seeing your note here just now.
    
    You see, one of the reminders of my own 2-1/2 year relationship which
    ended a number of months ago was an extra $2500 balance on my DCU car
    loan, which I borrowed to pay off a delinquent VISA card my S.O.
    had accumulated before we met.
    
    After many months I've been able to scrape together some spare change,
    and just now I walked back to my cubicle from the DCU ATM having put in
    an extra payment of $2253.32 toward the car.  Now I'll have it paid off
    in four years, just as originally planned!
    
    It's great having less of this physical baggage left over.  The
    emotional stuff is a lot harder to deal with, though, than money or
    things hanging on the walls.
    
    What I did about the stuff around the house was move.  The old place
    was OK for me to live in, but not great, so I asked the landlord if he
    had any other units which would be better.  He had a terrific apartment
    which is costing me less, so last month I moved away from the place which
    we had shared.  Though I still possess some of the things we had
    together, the move gave me a great excuse to leave some of them in
    storage.  And to clean some of the bird poop off the rest of my stuff--
    my S.O. had birds, and though I miss these wonderful pets, I don't
    miss their reminders!
    
    Hope this gives you some ideas.
    
    -rich
    Mass Storage Engineering OEM D&SG  SHR3-1/W7     DTN:  237-2124
    [email protected]                            508-841-2124

  When I broke up with one SO, she demanded back every letter and card
 she had sent and every gift she had given me during our time together.
 She wanted me to go through my photo albums and destroy any pictures of 
 her.  She also packed up everything I had given her and she dropped it off 
 on my front doorstep.  

  I told her NO WAY!  I'm not stripping down curtains and taking the shirt off
 my back just because they were from her.  The memories were more important
 than the physical items, and the memories weren't going away just because the
 stuff was gone.  Besides, I like memories (good or bad) because I can trace 
 certain paths that led me to where I am today.

  You can't erase that time you spent together.  You can't rewrite history.
 Learn your lessons and build on them for next time.   Take down the picture
 of the two of you dancing at the Christmas party, but keep the sunset picture
 you had blown up and framed.  One reminds you specifically of the person, the 
 other of a nice feeling.

  My ex-SO did leave the stuff I had given her.  I packed it up and put it in
 a closet for a few months.  When she was able to be around those memories
 again, she came and took it back.


   -- Jeff

    I went through this a couple times.
    
    The first time, after a 5-year relationship ended, I rearranged the 
    furniture, and put anything that was too "painful" in a box.  (About 
    a year later, I went through the box, throwing away some stuff and 
    keeping others).  I replaced a few things in the process, got my
    finances back in order (like Rich, I had some reminders there) and, 
    since the breakup was pretty "clean" for me emotionally, felt LOTS 
    better very quickly as a result.
    
    The second breakup, of a 3-year relationship, was *much* harder on me.
    We had a lot of shared hobbies, which I abandoned.  I moved, changed
    what I ate, where and how I spent my time.  Nothing seemed to help
    much, and I missed my hobbies.  The two things that eventually helped
    a little were finding others that shared my hobbies and taking them up 
    again, and spending some time fixing up my new place.  But, it was very 
    much a process. (I'd say "is very much a process", but we ended up 
    getting back together after 9-10 months apart).
    
    My [ex-SO] immersed himself in another language and culture.  (Wish I'd 
    thought of that!)
    
    I don't think there's any set formula.  You know what you need.  I'd 
    be cautious about getting rid of things you're proud to own, though -- 
    when you're over this and they no longer have that "tug" on you, you
    may regret it.  You can always store a box with friends or relatives
    for a while, and make the hard decisions later.
    
    	Good luck!
    	Sharon
    

    
    	I've never had the experience of a 5 year relationship that
    ended, so, I cant say what I did.
    
    	However, my suggestion would be not to do anything with them
    particularly. 
    
    	A "particular" choice might be to box everything the SO ever gave
    you, say, as a personal gift, and sent it back. Plow in the garden and
    build a deck over it. Take any and all reminders out of contact with 
    your daily life - permanently.
    
    	Another particular choice would be to take everything and enshrine
    it somehow. Chrome-plate the kitchen shears. Get an expensive frame for
    your first picture together. Pick out a corner of a room and have 
    everything your SO ever gave you on display there...
    
    	Just let the grief over your loss follow its own course. Dont
    do anything to either hurry it along (for the sake of fostering
    an "emotional cleansing") or do anything that will only prolong
    it, or get you stuck in it. Should you run into an object in your
    daily activities which, by virtue of what it meant at one time, 
    causes you to feel sorrow - stay with it and go through that feeling. 
    You'll "cleanse" in due time, in whatever time *it* takes. By 
    allowing the process that - unencumbered or unenhanced - you'll be 
    making the most health-ful choice you can. [It'll probably be helpful
    also if you have someone you can call and talk with, when these
    things happen.]
    
    	Hope this helps,
    
    	Joe
    
    	

    Oh yeah, I forgot to mention in .1:  after a breakup several years ago,
    I was asked to return a nice $250 leather jacket which had been given
    to me as a gift.
    
    Despite my state of mind, I had the presence of mind to say hell no.
    
    It's one of the most politically-incorrect possessions I have.  I wear
    it proudly when the temperature's right.  It symbolizes my ability to
    get control back over situation in which I felt helpless.
    
    -rich
    Mass Storage Engineering OEM D&SG  SHR3-1/W7     DTN:  237-2124
    [email protected]                            508-841-2124

    I had a girlfriend in high school who gave me a car. It was a '70 VW Bug,
    and she didn't ask for it back, and I actually kept it for about a year
    after we broke up, but then my parents gave it back to her when I went off
    to college. It ran great, too. I miss that car.

    Though her parents also made me pay her back the $150 that she gave me so
    that I could buy a class ring for her to wear. It's kind of weird. She
    wanted to wear my class ring, because it was the cool thing to do. But I
    didn't have a class ring, so she bought one for me. Then when we broke up
    I had to fork over the money to pay her back for something that I didn't
    want in the first place. I've still got the thing, sitting in a remote
    corner of my dresser.

    GRRRR. Sorry, I'm still bitter.

    - Jim

    Rich - I would have kept the jacket as well.
    
    To basenoter, my suggestion is to box everything that you can (without
    getting too silly -like the sofa) and put it/them out of sight.  Maybe
    after two or three or ten months you can look at them again.  
    
    I would also suggest that you don't get rid of anything just yet 'cuz
    it's probably your emotions talking.  Wait until you're in a better
    place mentally.
    
    Take your time,
    
    
    Dave

I used to hang onto things and looking back I think I did 
it in the vain hope that we'd get back together.

I now have nothing apart from a few early letters from my
(now) wife which are somewhere hidden away in the roof.

I found that hanging onto things and then almost ceremoniously
disposing of them actually helped me to get over the break up



	Ian

    I don't think there is anything wrong with leaving out the items that
    decorate your place. I'd probably box any photographs though. Tend the
    garden if that is what you enjoy, smile to yourself when you do, your
    ex has left many gifts and they are not all material in nature.

    I would feel good that so many positive things resulted from your
    relationship. You will be richer for it and have more to offer in your
    next relationship. Don't feel "guilty" for enjoying the memories of a
    past relationship. As long as you can move past the memories into
    something real again. 
    
    Gail

    The ideal situation would be to take all the belongings and lock them	
    up in a big safe with a timed lock set for five years; that way you
    wouldn't be tempted to look at them when it would be painful, yet you'd
    still be able to see them five years later, when you've moved on.

    I threw away the pictures from my junior and senior proms, because the
    relationships I had with both dates ended painfully. But now that time
    has passed, I really wish I could have those pictures back. Never throw
    away memories. Even the bad ones are nice to have around on a rainy night.

    - Jim

    What you can do is keep everything. It sounds like you have quite a
    collectible collection that is too valuable to get rid off. What you
    can do is put all in storage until your fiance is out of your mind for
    good. Once he is out of your mind for good you can display the items
    again and the hurt will be gone and you can enjoy them for what they
    are. Now would be a tough time to keep them out.
    
    Just my thought:-)
    
    Lynne

It seems to me that it is not the things that are hurting you but the feelings 
that they bring up. The feelings will come up anyway and stay until they are 
dealt with.

My twelve year relationship ended last November. I've not got a lot of 
reminders but the feelings have been intense at times. Mourning the loss os the
relationship has been important. Mourn and move on. I do have photographs and
trinkets but most intense feelings came up when going "home" to pick up my
daughter. It's important to get through the feelings.

A couple of books have helped. Crazy Time is about the termination of long term
relationships. "Surviving the loss of a love" is a very gentle simply presented
book.

Anyway, the emotional divorce is probably the most important part of the 
termination of my relationship. The legal stuff is separate.

It's tough getting through the separation but there are other people doing the 
same thing. It was important for me to talk to friends too.

Good luck,
	Peter.

Peter writes:
>It's tough getting through the separation but there are other people doing the 
>same thing. It was important for me to talk to friends too.
    
    Hey, that gives me an idea.  A friend of mine went through a breakup of
    a relationship very parallel to mine, a month after I did.  We've been
    teasing each other about all the little reminders, and when I helped
    him move out I kept suggesting that he leave some things while taking
    others (prize possessions of his ex) that might be more valuable.  It
    was cathartic therapy for both of us.
    
    My idea is this:  find a good friend who is going through something
    similar, and swap gifts consisting of those trinkets which are painful
    reminders.  Then in some future year you can swap back if you want.
    
    Regardless, Peter's suggestion of talking to your friends is probably
    more important than what you do with the material possessions.
    
    -rich
    Mass Storage Engineering OEM D&SG  SHR3-1/W7     DTN:  237-2124
    [email protected]                            508-841-2124

    I would like to thank all of you for your replies, all of which have 
    been very helpful to me.  It's good to know I have company.

    Rich, you are right that it's the emotions I'm trying to lose rather 
    than the physical objects.  This person _really_ did a good job of 
    marking his/her turf, although I'm fully aware it was a by-product of 
    affection for me and nothing else.  Or at least I like to believe it 
    was.  At any rate, I am sure it's not easy for you dealing with that 
    loan balance... another constant reminder, right?

    Jeff, I'm sorry to hear there was so much resentment on her part when 
    you broke up.  Sounds as if she _was_ trying to "hurry up the healing."  
    Your statement "you can't rewrite history" is well-taken.  What's there 
    is there and must be dealt with.  Not that the old "Kung Fu" TV series 
    was any major habit of mine, but I do remember the old blind teacher 
    saying something to the effect that the truth, if ignored or shunned, 
    only gets stronger and stronger over time, and that eventually it will 
    knock you down like a tidal wave.  Good advice from a TV show?  Who'd 
    have thought it?  Amazing!   :-)

    Sharon, your handling of the end of your 5-year relationship and the 
    "clean" break are exactly how my former S.O. is handling his/her end.  
    He/she had "left" the relationship long, long ago, so for him/her the 
    actual act of parting was just a formality.  My experience, however, 
    while not as intense as yours was at the [temporary] end of your 3-year 
    relationship, still is not as "clean" as your 5-year one.  Very 
    difficult for me because of the shared interests, hobbies, and places.  
    I too have been immersing myself in fixing up my place, my car, getting 
    new clothes, keeping a journal, &c.  Even had the septic tank pumped 
    out yesterday... talk about symbolism!   :-)

    Joe, your advice to just "go with it" is working for me.  Although I 
    did box up 90% of his/her gifts, I'm not consciously going through the 
    house on a "search-and-destroy" mission.  When I do find something in a 
    drawer or closet I missed during the initial "purge," I look at it, 
    touch it, remember, and place it with the other stuff.  I think rushing 
    it would be akin to Jeff's point about rewriting history -- not 
    healthy in the long term.

    Jim, now that I think about your throwing out memories from your proms, 
    I realize how the mind is _great_ at remembering only nice things about 
    people.  I have pictures of two old S.O.s that I wouldn't throw out for 
    the world, and I'm glad I didn't when those friendships ended.  Even 
    though if I think hard enough I can recall I _did_ feel pain at the end 
    of those relationships, still when I look at those pictures I surprise 
    the heck out of myself my catching myself with a smile on my face.  
    Funny how that works...

    Dave, "out of sight" and in boxes is exactly what I've decided to do.  
    It _is_ working for me.  "Take your time" is damned good advice.  THANK 
    GOD s/he didn't buy me a car! (Right, Jim?)    :-)

    Ian, I've been extremely tempted to do as you did and just torch the 
    whole lot.  As I said in the base note, it would be incredibly painful 
    for me in the short term, but I might get through to the other side a 
    heck of a lot quicker.  Maybe part of my reluctance to do this is that 
    I do not hate this person, and a bonfire, whether real or symbolic, 
    would carry too much negativity for me.  Still, it sure has its 
    advantages.  I wish I could pull it off with such surgical precision.  
    In a way, I envy you the fact that such purges work for you this way.

    Gail, your advice is well-taken.  It will work for me once the road 
    smoothes out a little.  I think I might bring out some of the old items 
    one by one over time.  Your note was very positive and comforting not 
    only for its words but also (and perhaps more so) for the feeling it 
    left me with, which is that everything will be okay soon.  
    Rediscovering the "big picture" always helps.  Thanks.

    Lynne, I will keep everything.  The "collectibles" are collectible much 
    more, in my mind anyway, for their tastefulness than for their monetary 
    value, although they all measure pretty far up there on both scales.  I 
    see your point around the time these items need to be hidden.  Today 
    they are reminders.  Tomorrow they will be just as valuable to me, but 
    then only for the reason that they are nice items to have.  I guess 
    it's when I'm sure they mean nothing more to me than that is the point 
    at which I should bring them back out.

    Peter, explaining your situation to me was very helpful at my end.  I 
    wish you all the luck in the world -- it sounds very, very tough.  I 
    don't think I could handle it, and I don't see how people are able to 
    deal with being separated from their children, although I know millions 
    are doing it every day.  I am going to take a drive up to the local 
    Barnes & Noble and see if I can find the books you mentioned; thank you 
    for the references.  12 years... wow.   :-(

    Peter and Rich suggest talking to friends.  I am sure that's valuable 
    advice, but I'm not very good at expressing pain to friends.  Yes, it's 
    a failing on my part, and yes, I'm working on it.

    Just a last comment here... I'm a big boy/girl now, and I've been 
    through this tons of times before.  It's just that this time, "the good 
    one got away," and so I guess I'm feeling what any normal person would 
    feel after a breakup, except a little more intensely than I'm used to.

    Thank you all VERY much.

    I delivered all of my ex S.O.'s stuff to his condo when he wasn't there
    (and hence, left my key as well). I threw out ALL reminders of him the
    first three months I was "alone" although I did keep the letters we
    wrote to each other after the breakup for a few years. I kept only one
    picture of him. Anything we bought together during our four years
    together I put away.
    
    Now, exactly four years after we broke up (and eight years after we
    met), I truly regret having thrown out all the pictures of us together
    and of him. It was a part of my life that will be gone forever. On the
    other hand, it makes life easier for my fiancee to deal with this past
    relationship with no reminders. 
    
    Purging may be good, but I wish I had just packed everything up and
    stored it for at least a year when my feelings had changed instead of
    hastily tossing it all out. If the two of you chose to live in this
    place together, you may want to move. We broke up a month after I moved
    into a new apartment, so I never associated it with him. Fortunately,
    today we are still friends and only a few things remind me of our past
    together (trips to Vermont, certain stores, activities).
    
    It is tough to wipe someone completely out of your life if they were a
    major part of it for a while, or at least until you meet someone new.
    For me, it was best to remove all reminders, change my phone number,
    and get on with my life.

    When I broke up with a woman I was very serious about, in 1986, my
    first reaction was to bundle every reminder of her and throw them out.
    
    Instead, I put them all in a suitcase and forgot about them for about 4
    years.  I came across them about 3 years ago and now I'm glad I didn't
    throw it all away.
    
    Seeing them doesn't cause me any pain anymore.  I put some of the items
    to use, as either bedshirts or baseball/workout shirts, the rest went
    back in the suitcase.
    
    My advice is don't throw the mementos away, just set them aside some-
    where so that they're out of sight and mind.

    I would agree with those who say to just put the reminders away, so
    they'll be out-of-sight, because a few years from now you may enjoy
    going through them again, when you can remember the good times without
    the pain.  
    
    The only things I've ever put away after a break-up are photographs
    that I had out, either at home, or in my office at work.  I've thrown
    away a few greeting cards, especially some that said "I love you" and
    were from a boyfriend, who later left me for another woman.  But, this
    past March when I moved, I was going through some boxes, in the
    basement, and came across quite a few greeting cards I'd gotten from a
    couple of past boyfriends, and it really made me feel good to see the
    cards, and remember that they once cared about me in that way.  It was
    nice.
    
    Lorna
    

 I read a lot of books during the process of our sepperation after 8 years
 of marriage and subsequent 2 year divorce process. Two of the best books
 I read dealing with relationships breakups were "Uncoupling" don't remember
 the author and "Why Relationships End and How to Survive the ending of Yours"
 I purchased this book and highly recomend both. The first book Uncoupling was
 extremely painful reading but it gave me a lot of insight on understanding the
 "Initiator's" as their called in the book, point of view. It also helped me
 understand the "Survivors" pain and relate some of the case examples to my
 own relationships and marital relationship breakdown. The book "Why Relation-
 ships End ..." Helped also with understanding and surviving through close
 observation and reflection of events which lead upto the relationship failure.
 After reading these books I was able to take what self-esteem I had left and
 go forward slowly and painfully in rebuilding my life. I kept all the pictures
 and memorabelia although as others had done saved them away. I also changed
 bedrooms and location of the bed in the room changed the bedding and replaced
 the curtains I also repainted the entire home "which only consisted of 4 rooms".
 This helped me to start over in surroundings that although were the same
 were different. It also helped my children I think because they now see my
 home as Dads and theirs and we even sit at different seats at the dinner
 table since my ex/their mom left. I can't remove pictures of us as a family
 from my daughters lives and they have the oppertunity to look at them and
 the videos from time to time if they want. I did have a picture taken of just
 my daughters and I taken to replace the previous family photo and I removed the
 wedding pictures. Someday maybe I'll look back and remember the good times
 but I realize that my family is now just the three of us and I'm really
 content with that. Our daughters now have two homes to spend time at and two
 seperate families to share their time with and although it is different they
 are comfortable with it and know that they are not alone in this sittuation.

 Life Goes On!

    Neil....

In my opinion, what you do with the reminders should be directly proportional
to how much pain the termination of the relationship has caused you.

If it's all for the better and you're glad to be done with the relationship,
keep everything.

If the breakup was painful but necessary and you've adjusted to it relatively
well, keep what you will, and discard the things that make the pain worse.

If the breakup was and is extremely painful, do not discard, but "return to
sender" the reminders. Perhaps they'll get some grief out of it as well.

-Jack