Conference quark::human_relations

    
    	Re .0 -
    
    	IMHO,
    
    	Your trust and insecurity issues are in direct correspondance
    with what happened to you at the age of 14. Of course you dont trust
    men! Your father leaving you and your family basically demonstrated
    to you (more accurately, programmed into you) what men are all about.
    "Father" is appropriately symbolic of security and strength. Yours 
    showed you weakness and gave you insecurity. That's quite a loss for 
    you in growing up; to not have had a father present to show strength 
    of character and give a sense of security in the family. I'd guess 
    that this loss probably causes you much grief and sorrow!
    
    	There are many things that happen to children in a family when a
    father leaves or dies. I have a set of audio tapes by John Bradshaw, 
    which go into this in much greated detail than I can. If you'd like, I
    can put you in touch with where to get a set of your own. The title
    is "Healing your father wounds" and, while I'd never recommend them
    as an alternative to therapy, they might give you an indication
    of what's going on with you and what level you can take it to.

    	I'm sorry to read that your trust issues with men are giving
    you trouble in your life today. I'm glad to read that you're aware
    of what's happening with you and that you have the willingness to
    share it here. The awareness you have is a great first step. With
    your willingness, an investigation can follow. I'd say, to the degree
    you're willing to investigate and grow-through your issues around
    your father, you'll eventually be able to relate more easily with 
    other men - without your legitimate issues with trust causing you 
    so much pain and turmoil.
    
    	Hope this helps,
    
    	Joe

    When you get real "in-love" with a man you will see that not all men
    are the same... you will find NO FLAWS in him, and if he has flaws...
    you won't see them as "flaws" but as part of his personality and you
    love him with all, good and less good... Of course we cannot program
    ourselves into falling in love, we can only search till we find it...
    and not everybody finds "IT" either...
    
    Please think that we are NOT perfect, there are all kinds of people and
    if your father wasn't the best... it doesn't mean that your husband
    will be worse, just the opposite, if he wasn't that good... it'll be
    very easy to find a better man than him! give boys or men a chance to
    be themselves and to treat you well, you in return will learn how to
    trust your loved one (that doesn't mean you must trust everybody that
    comes by you, but those who deserve be treated well and earn your
    respect)
    I wish you well.  Ana
    

    You sound a lot like a friend I once had.  That's the way she was with
    men.  And eventually she became the same way with me.  When I expressed
    my vulnerability or that I cared about her, I got the cold shoulder.
    She held things against me, but didn't say what they were.  She also
    had a father with a drinking problem.  I can't say that I understand,
    but I can say that you have already made the biggest step toward helping
    yourself, which is that you have recognized it as a problem not a 
    benefit ... and that takes a lot of courage to do.  There are many books
    available (like John Bradshaw's) and self help groups like Al-anon and
    CODA, if counseling is not an option right now.  I don't have any first
    hand experience with the groups, others here might.  Your situation is
    definitely not unique and there is a lot of help available.
    
    Mary

Hmmmm..  For what it's worth I'll throw in a few 
thoughts of my own....

OK, so you accept that you find it hard to trust men 
and if they show any sign of vulnerability then it's 
a big turn-off for you.  

Maybe there's a race on - "Quick!  Dump him before he 
dumps me!" because deep down you feel insecure and 
think that he's bound to see how rotten you are sooner
or later (which, of course, is not true, but perhaps 
you feel that maybe your dad would've been better to 
you if you'd have deserved it, which you know isn't 
true either!).  

In that case, this guy obviously thinks the world of 
you, and wants to live with you.  He's asking you to 
trust in him, and that really scares you.  It's an 
invitation to totally let go, let it all hang out and 
just trust.  But you know that that puts you in the 
position of being open to being completely let down.  

It sounds like he's calling the shots - how would you 
feel if you were setting the ground rules?  How would 
you feel about living together, but having your own  
room and your own "bit of space" that was private?  

Sounds to me like maybe you know in your head that 
you're an alright person, but deep down you are not 
so sure.  Perhaps this is the right guy, and he's 
scaring you off by making you feel that you *should* 
trust him by now!  Maybe he's not - afterall, the 
saying goes that you have to kiss a lot of frogs 
before you find a prince!  ;o)  And 4 months isn't 
that long....

Anyway, best of luck!  ;o)


Julia


PS - If you want to mail me in person then please do!

.0:

I used to be a lot like you that way.  My last woman friend dropped by once or
twice unannounced in the early days of that relationship, but I freaked inside
each time, and she picked up on it.  My problem wasn't that she came over
unannounced but that she saw me at my worst: unshowered, unshaven,
coffee-breath, and maybe smelling like a moose from working on the house all
morning.  I had this ridiculous notion that I had to be perfect for her
whenever she was around.  I should have given her and myself a lot more credit,
and it may also have been a symptom of my wanting to be always in control that
made me feel uncomfortable with those surprise visits.  She never stopped by
again unannounced after maybe two more surprise visits; for reasons irrelevant 
to this topic, but having the same root causes as my being uncomfortable with 
surprise visits, the relationship deteriorated into a series of prearranged
dates and time slices for years, mechanical and contrived.  I made her very
unhappy, I'm ashamed to admit.  Myself, I wasn't exactly sore from grinning
either.  

I don't know if you can fix things up with your current guy, but I do believe
that if I'd been utterly frank with my last woman friend about this need for
distance, we could have talked it out in the early stages and either agreed to
try it (each making an effort to accomodate the other's personality quirks) or
to kiss it goodbye before the cancer started forming.  There's no question in
my mind that I should have provided her with more detailed warnings regarding
my "hot buttons" very early on, and that I should have been more responsive and
open with her when she did something that hit a sensitive spot, such as saying
within 5 seconds of my feeling some irritation at something, "What you just did
bothered me.  Let's talk about it."  Maybe this would work in your case.

Of course, we're talking the infamous "high-maintenance relationship" here.  I 
really do think two people with a small amount of emotional baggage can be
happy as long as they're open and quick to talk about things when one of them's
pissed about something.  Letting it cook under the surface is what causes the
cancer.  Once that starts forming, IMHO, the friendship is shot to hell. 

Oh, one more thing.  At one time the woman I referred to above and I used to 
joke about how we'd like to retire together to the same house.  We would 
arrange it so the house would be split between us.  We even discussed two 
separate but identical houses on the same piece of land.  Each person therefore 
would have his or her own space.  This was ok with her, because she too was 
very independent and self-sufficient.  I believe such an arrangement would have 
worked perfectly for us with enough trust and self-confidence on both our 
parts.  Again, perhaps this would work in your case if you find a guy you want 
to be close to a lot.

Your need for space doesn't make you a bad person; it just makes your 
requirements for a mate a little different than most.  You shouldn't like
yourself any less because you need more space around you or because you don't
like to hear anything that approaches "I love you" from a guy.  As far as I'm
concerned, the two people involved should make up their own rules.  They don't
have to be similar to the rules the majority plays by. 

I hope this helps a little.

- craig