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Conference quark::human_relations

Title:What's all this fuss about "sax and violins"?
Notice:Please read all replies to note 1
Moderator:QUARK::LIONEL
Created:Thu Jan 21 1993
Last Modified:Thu May 08 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:133
Total number of notes:1901

24.0. "Tied in knots, not tying the knot" by QUARK::MODERATOR () Tue Apr 27 1993 14:08

    The following entry has been contributed by a member of our community
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				Steve






    Hi
    
    I have a friend who is getting herself pretty tied up in knots 
    at the moment.  I wondered if anybody had any ideas of what I can 
    say to her, if indeed I should say anything?
    
    I know that 4 years ago she decided she liked the idea of fostering 
    a child (or children) and she now works with children at an inbetween 
    home.  She has said that she could be in the situation to actually 
    support a child in the near future.  She's 26, (I think!!).  I think 
    she'd be crazy to do so so young, even though I think she'd be good 
    at it.
    
    I don't think it's coincidental, but she's told me she's managed to 
    keep men at arms length for 4 years.  It seems every time she gets 
    involved this is in the back of her mind.  And the poor guy ends up 
    getting dumped.  I've seen it happen too many times.  She's making 
    herself unhappy too.  I know there's been something happen to her 
    when she got really badly let down and I get the impression it was 
    pretty serious.  She's very independent.  She says she knows she
    can be depended upon, but that she doesn't want to rely on anyone 
    else.
    
    Why the either/or situation?  (ie, either fostering kids, or a 
    relationship).  What is the point of making the effort to look good 
    every day when she's excluded herself from the couples market??  (And
    she is attractive.)  I think she'd be brill at fostering, but surely 
    the best environment to bring a child up is in that of a wedded couple?
    
    She doesn't work for DEC, but she knows lots of us and people might
    make  the connection if I put my name, hence the anonymity.
    
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24.1she might be afraid to let herself trust anyoneFRSBEE::MACKINNONThu Apr 29 1993 13:3024
    
    
    Maybe she just believes that this is what she wants to do.  No longer
    does one have to be married or even part of a couple to bring up a
    child.  I agree that the optimum situation for a child would be
    with both a female and male caretaker be they mom and dad or whomever.
    Yet, I also know that if I chose to I could bring up a child on my
    own.  I was brought up with my brothers and sister without a father.
    
    Why do you feel that the lack of marriage or that of a serious
    relationship is making her unhappy?  Up until recently I was single
    and lovin every minute of it.  I am incredibly independant and like
    to not have to rely on others due to my internal trust issues.
    However, I know that love is far too great not to take a chance on.
    I also believe that taking time for oneself is the best thing for
    each of us.  This is all your interpretation of what you are seeing.
    Is this the same situation that she sees?  
    
    It seems to me that she has some basic trust and abandonment issues
    if she can foster kids,but not want to make a committment to a 
    relationship.  Maybe you could approach a discussion from that
    angle?  
    
    Michele
24.2XCUSME::HOGGEI am the King of NothingFri Apr 30 1993 11:3426
    It sounds like she has a problem she needs to work out on her own.
    
    If you feel you HAVE to say something, then suggest some counseling, 
    but be prepared for a defensive reaction.  She may not WANT to be 
    in a relationship.  Nothing wrong with it, some folks feel the cost 
    is too high, or feel that until someone who can break through the 
    walls comes along, they'd just as soon enjoy thier life as a single 
    unattached individual.
    
    If it were me in your shoes, I personally would keep my mouth shut 
    and wait to see if SHE brings up the problems.  If she doesn't, then 
    assume she is content and leave it alone.  
    
    Keep in mind, what WE see of other's is what they show.  And many times 
    what they show isn't necessarily the way things are.  She may complain 
    about not having someone special, but then again, she may be saying it 
    because it's expected of her to be disappointed in not having someone 
    special.  She could very well be content in the way her life is going 
    right now.  AND she isn't "too young" for children.  
    
    That is unless you're speaking from a 'maturity' aspect.  I can show
    you a LOT of people who have had children at that age and younger and 
    have no regrets about it.
    
    FWIW
    Skip
24.3Just be honestTRACTR::ELKINSTue May 04 1993 10:2642
    One thing to remember in the middle of supporting her...is to not make 
    judgements or give your opinions of how she should do things unless she
    asks.  Ask her questins so she comes up with the answers around what
    she's doing and why.
    
    If she wants to foster a child, and is truly, truly doing it for the
    betterment of herself and the child rather than doing it to keep busy
    so she doesn't have to look at what's really so in her life, then it 
    would be great of you to support her.
    
    The way you describe her reminds me of the way I used to be.  If I were 
    your friend and I was not aware of what I was doing to myself, was not 
    aware that I created my life being the way it is, was not aware of how 
    I am in relationship such that I'm not in one AND you were bold enough 
    to tell me the truth....I would want to know it!!!!     
    
    I put on a show for so long, acted a certain way to please others, didn't 
    trust men for nothing, left every relatinship and made it about them, was 
    very very independent and wouldn't dream of depending on ANYONE, and kept 
    myself so busy there was no time for true intimate relationships that I
    lost touch with what I really wanted and who I was in the world.  
    
    Until a friend of mine told me in a straight, blunt yet loving voice...
    "It's okay to cry, you know!"  I hadn't realized how much I shut myself
    off.  Yet I was the center of attraction, the party planner, the one
    who knew everyone....
    
    I've done a LOT of work on myself and look at things very differently
    now and am grateful for that one simple sentence...it was the
    beginning.
    
    So you have to be willing to tell her the truth and in the middle of
    that, have her not like you because of it.  You have to be willing to
    be honest with her in order for her to get that she can really trust 
    you.  Don't be like veryone else and ignore it, if you want her to be 
    the best she can be and she's not....reveal yourself and tell her the 
    truth.
    
    Big Hugs,
    Tracy
    
    
24.4BROKE::BNELSONI say Fate should not tempt meTue May 04 1993 12:3648
    	I had the same impression as Michelle, that the person you describe
    sounds like they have some trust issues.  I needed some time to think
    this all through before responding, though, because it's a fairly
    complex situation.


    	On the one hand, I agree completely that it's not really necessary
    to have two parents these days.  If I were a child and had the chance
    to choose I would choose one (relatively) healthy parent over the
    traditional family situation where one or both parents have serious
    problems.  Of course, at least in my mind the best situation for all
    concerned is if you can have two (relatively) healthy parents.  It's
    better for the kids and much easier for the parents.  So in this sense
    I don't really have a problem with your friend wanting to raise a child
    or two on her own.


    	However, as we've fairly clearly established that SOMEthing is
    going on for her, I also think she should take care of herself first
    before she tries to raise any kids.  Something I learned from someone
    awhile back is the phrase, "You pass it back or you pass it on."
    Meaning any issues you have as a parent your kids are likely to pick up
    to some degree; kids are such incredible sponges.  I don't think it's
    fair to foist her issues on some innocent child.  We have enough of
    that going on as it is, I don't see any point in adding to the
    situation.


    	If your friend loves kids as much as I guess she does, if you were
    to point out something like this to her I think she might reconsider.
    And if she were to explore her issues and possibly get some help
    reconciling them, she would be putting herself in a much better
    position to raise kids while at the *same* time improving the quality
    of her own life.  Seems like a win-win situation.


    	I'm not trying to advocate that we all be perfect before having
    kids, but I do think we need to take care of ourselves and become the
    type of person who can *give* what's needed in raising children.  Major
    issues should be dealt with before the little ones come.


    	My thoughts anyway.


    Brian