Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    	Anon;

    		Saying nothing doesn't get you anywhere. Simply ask her if
    she's comfortable enough in your relationship with her for it to be
    exclusive. Tell her that your ready for this, but you want to know
    where her feelings are  at, at this time in the relationship. Remember,
    communication is the key. 

    	-Brian

.0> I'm not prepared to use the L word;
    
    So use the E word ... exclusive.
    
    There's nothing wrong with telling her what you want.

Anon,
 
There can surely be nothing wrong with expressing your true emotions to "#1". 
What I find unacceptable is the implication in your note that you're keeping
#2 in reserve in case the object of your affection does not work out.

You have the potential to cause a great deal of pain here and I suggest that you
consider being honest to both of them as well as yourself.

Joyce

    What's wrong with a spare or two, until you become exclusive?

So long as they (the spares) understand that that's what they are.  I don't think 
you can have it both ways.  Anon. obviously wants to commit to one relationship,
and if you believe yourself to care enough for that, and committed enough,
then hell, what's with a spare (Gawd what an awful term) to cushion the blow if
things don't work out?  IMHO, Doesn't seem terribly committed/sincere to me!  

Joyce

    me either...
    
    It is a pity, but it sounds like choosing a tie to wear... lets see if
    this fit, if not... let's get this other!
    
    It is amazing how many people let themselves be other's spares, no
    wonder there's so much hurt arround.
    

Re: 0

In the delicate early stages of dating, don't rush things.  Show that you care 
but don't say it.  Often people are still not sure early on and if you force 
them to make a committment too soon they will feel trapped.  As you spend time
together you will continue to grow closer.  There is no need to force a 
committment.  Uncertainty increases excitement.  If you have a carefree attitude
you will be more desireable.  There is time for committments later on when
they are based on deep feelings not oral agreements.

As for #1 and #2, make up your mind.  If you really want to be with #1 then your
thoughts should be with her.  You have no right expecting committment from 
someone if you aren't committed to them.  Being committed in a relationship is 
demonstrated by actions not words.  You will also find that you cannot be 
patient if you are trying to have a second alternative available. 

Good luck,

Steve

    	The following reply is being posted anonymously, from the basenoter.
            


         i am not "keeping #2 in reserve". i've explained to her
         that i'm seeing someone now and i would like things to
         work out there, and i don't wish to jepodize what i
         have with "infidelity", if that term can even be used
         here. 

         what i am doing is keeping my options open. #1 has made
         no commitment to me, and although i like her very much,
         i don't know her very well yet. i've seen old lovers
         come crashing back, and watched people go back to the
         ones they bored me to death with the details of how
         terribly they treated them...

         i've been single for a year or more. i dated a few woman,
         but none that i felt were right for me. i tried to treat
         all with honesty and respect, and to just basically do
         the right thing. 

         that's what i want to do here.

         i knew that by using numbers instead of names here, i'd
         be cheapening things. i'm not surprised by the necktie
         analogy. but that's a mile off. the situation is more
         along the lines of this.. i would like nothing more than
         for my primary interest to work out. as well as i know her
         now, i think we have strong potential to go a long way,
         and i think she'd be great for me.

         but there are hints of her past around. i neglected to
         mention something in my initial note that i really meant
         to put in there.. one night at her place the answering
         machine had a message on it from some old flame.. she
         had mentioned his name. he left his number, and she
         jotted it down. and my heart sank.

         we've since talked about that, and about him. he is
         history, i'm told. i have to believe her, if i'm going
         to trust her. i can't let my old experience creep in
         here and eat at me, because that's just too negative.
         but late at night... it gets to me. it's getting better.
         the longer i know her, the more i trust.

         the way i've tried to handle the situation is as reply
         .7 says - no rush, and stay loose. i don't want to push
         anyone into anything. 

         and i know that the right thing to do is to forget about
         #2. it's not as easy to do as it is to say, however. but
         what i will do is stay away from her, and direct all at
         primary. time will tell. it might not be right to hold a
         spare in check.. but that's life sometimes. and if #1
         thinks she wants to get exclusive, that's great with me, 
         and #2 will be the first to know.

         you all think (except Mike) that i should make a choice
         and either commit to #1 or drop the ball. have you ever
         committed to someone, and had them string you along, and
         leave you cold? I have. and #2 is one hell of a woman..
         if she had made her thoughts known to me earlier i'm
         sure we would be together now.

    
    After reading the last reply from anon, my initial reaction was to
    suggest, if it so difficult to stay away from #2 and that if #2 had
    expressed interest earlier they'd be together, maybe he should be
    concentrating on #2 instead of #1......
    

.11> Why wait around trying to develop a succesful
.11> relationship with someone you don't know very well?
    
    Maybe he finds #1 much more desirable than #2.

    
    	Often, what's most desirable is what's most comfortable for us,
    even though it doesnt make a lot of sense - to ourselves or as seen 
    from another's point of view.
    
    	Perhaps the sure certainty that #2 offers is somehow an uncomfortable
    situation for the basenoter - for reasons we cannot possibly understand
    from our perspective - and therefore the un_certainty of the situation
    offered by #1 is actually preferred. 
    
    	We only know that the turmoil the basenoter is going through
    over the conflict presented by this life-situation is uncomforting
    - causing the basenoter to lose sleep at least one night.
    
    	We could only venture a guess as to why there is conflict in
    the mind of the basenoter over this. Perhaps the basenoter doesnt
    understand why more comfort is felt with #1, while logically, #2
    is offering what "one would think would be" ultimately the more 
    comfortable situation.
    	
    	Joe

    
    In affairs of the heart, do what you feel is best.
    
    I have recently come to the realization that you must do what you feel
    is right, in all situations, and then await the result.  There *are* no
    guarantees, no great signs, no formulas, no promises, that it will come
    out as you wish.
    
    Your intent, and your actions, are what you can alter.
    
    The rest is up to fate.
    
    -Jody
    

> do what you feel is best.

And if you really know what you really feel that's lucky.  :-)


The rest of it, I'd say honesty is best but that doesn't always have to be 
heavy.   I *think* it's possible to express feelings close to the l word, 
certainly with fidelity implications, in a light enough way, keeping it from
being just joking around but also without causing a rapid sprint in the 
opposite direction.

Ok so some people will sprint at a hint whatever whenever but then I guess
by the sounds of things if that was the case then it might not be the right 
situation for you anyway.

(Personally I think "I care about you enough for it to matter to me about
these things; I'd really like our relationship to be 'exclusive'" sounds
great so long as there's no tone of "I'm not having you keeping any of those
friends anymore" about it.  On the assumption that you both have the same 
understanding of exclusive that is :-)     

Since you seem to be staying a little objective and didn't imply 'the L word'
I guess there's no call for correcting on how it's a doubtful kind of L word
if you'd still seriously consider no. 2.

    I agree with .15.  Why not state your feelings to #1, and if she can't
    handle it, then she probably isn't right for you.  I don't believe in
    head games, and not being able to say what you feel for fear you will
    drive that person away, to me, is a head game.  I personally hate all
    of the uncertainty that accompanies dating (does he like me?  will he
    call?  etc.), and would much rather someone be honest and direct.  That
    way, I would know where I stand, he would know where he stands, and
    each person can then decide what's best for them based on the
    information they've just learned.
    
    If #2 is a wonderful person and you both share the same goals and
    values and would enhance each other, why not go for it?  The biggest
    problem with singles today is that no one wants a sure thing, even if
    the sure thing would be the best thing that ever happened to them.
    
    No wonder the divorce rate is so high!  (I'm going through one, and
    have learned from my mistakes.)
    
    -Roberta
    
    

	The following reply is being posted anonymously for the basenoter -

	Joe
				*	*	*


       It's not easy to explain my feelings about these 2 very
       different people without sounding cold and calculating. but
       without some explanation i can see people making assumptions
       that don't fit.

       #1 is approaching my ideal, and the more time we spend
       together, the more i see of that. 

       #2 thinks that we would be great together. we've never done
       more than have a few drinks out and talk. she is basing her
       feelings on instinct, i suppose. she might be right. but
       there's no real spark.

       I know sparks fade. I guess you'll tell me that true love
       grows, that mature love isn't based on physical attraction or
       anything else that could be catorgorized as infatuation. but 
       things are developing between #1 and myself. the more time we
       spend together the more we find in common. I find her
       interested in things i never would have guessed.. things that i
       have liked to do my whole life and never found a woman who'd
       shown any interest. #2 would do these things with me too, but
       for a different reason. she would be going along with it...

       what is between #2 and me.. if i was still drifting with no
       real special person in my life.. i know that i'd be with #2
       now that she's presented her feelings, and i'm sure we'd be
       further along with things than me and the other are right now.

       but i think that love is growing between #1 and myself.
       it has been progressing nicely since i first wrote. one thing i
       gained from this note was that the right way to go is to
       concentrate on one person at a time, that if you want more from
       a relationship than just an occasional night out, then you've
       made a decision. i haven't asked #1 to be exclusive. she is
       soon to leave for a week's vacation away. i won't bring up
       exclusivity prior to that. but i feel things shaping that way,
       and don't find it necessary to use the words just now. someone
       earlier in this string said that it's better to let the
       feelings grow, and basically not to use the words too early. i
       see that now.. the words would be shallow and hollow and
       unnatural. the natural part is too much fun.

       i was very confused when i started this note. your words have
       helped me quite alot. i think i have a handle on my feelings
       and i know i have people to bounce ideas off. thanks a bunch.

    Go for the spark.
    
    If it fades, you'll have what you would've had anyway.

    I agree with Mike.. go for the spark...
    
    but I question that the spark with #1 will not be enough either...
    
    maybe neither #1 or #2 is right for you and you should be looking for
    #3?
    
    Its very difficult after being single for some time not to grasp at the
    first opportunity that comes along and to "wish" it into something more
    than it is... even more frustrating when two opportunities appear
    together - a bit like buses eh?
    
    I hope it works out with #1 for you, but I would have thought if that
    "spark" was really there you wouldn't have these doubts..
    
    
    Xtine

    Men need the sparks.  It's in our genes.  There's nothing we can do
    about it, we're simply slaves to nature.  Woe is us.