Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Go to Nar-Anon -- if Nar-Anon isn't available in your area, go to
    Al-Anon.  The Al-Anon Family groups are for family and friends of
    people who may have a problem with alcohol and drugs.
    
    What can you do about Katie's addiction?  Nothing. You have to get
    really really clear about three things:  you didn't cause it (nor
    did her relationship with her mother) you can't cure it (only she
    make a decision about her addiction) and you can't control it.
    
    If you allow yourself, you can get totally wrapped up in Katie's
    problems, to the point where "you" begin to disappear -- lots of people
    who are involved with addicts and alcoholics find this happening to
    them.  That's why support groups like Al-Anon and Nar-Anon exist: to
    help those who are not directly addicted, but who are nevertheless
    profoundly affected by the addiction of others.
    
    You'll find Al-Anon and Nar-Anon in your local phone book.  In
    addition, see if EAP or Health Services in your facility has additional
    resources.  If you want to speak more about this, send mail.
    
    					good luck,
    					 andrew

    Andrew is right, you can't help her - she has to help herself.  That
    may seem cold but that's the way it is.  You can be supportive of her
    though.  
    
    It is hard for her to break her ties with her family, however this is
    necessary.  She needs a circle of friends with a lifestyle similar to
    the one she is going to try to achieve.  By that I mean DRUG FREE.
    
    If she is going to "steal" from you in order to sustain her habit you
    need to be sure and not take it personally, it in no way reflects how
    she feels about you.  However, you need to be sure this doesn't
    overtake your life like Andrew said.  A relationship may not be
    possible right now.
    
    I guess the most important thing I want to say is that according to
    your basenote you should not expect any permanant changes in the near
    future if ever.  A person addicted to drugs will never be truly
    committed to rehabilitation until (NOT A SECOND BEFORE) they admit they
    do indeed have a problem.  You can not make her see that.  She has to
    realize it on her own.  
    
    Good luck - Tracy 

    re:.0
    
    Until she is ready to quit, you're on unstable ground.
    
    My advice is to distance yourself from her.  Let her know why.  Also
    let her know that if she quits, you're there for her.  She has to
    want to do it.  Until then, things will only get worse.

    I agree with the last two replies.  I would also like to add that she
    will not get help until *she* has hit rock bottom, and she won't do
    that if she keeps using you as a crutch.  You may just want to suggest
    to her that she attend Narcotics Anonymous (similar to AA except it is
    for people who have a problem with narcotics).  It is free, you need no
    insurance to attend, just the need to get clean.  You may also want to
    suggest she go to ACOA (Adult Children of Alcoholics) meetings, they
    will help also.  Now, all you can do is suggest these to her, you
    cannot *make* her go, she is going to have to do that on her own.  If
    you want to stay in the relationship, I would take Andrews suggestion
    and get to an Al-Anon or Nar-anon group for yourself.
    
    Good Luck & keep us posted.  This girl is lucky to have you, but you
    may have to learn to "let go" of her in order to help her.
    
    Debby
    

    
    
    
    I agree with all the previous notes.  One thing I would like
    to touch upon is the fact that you mentioned that she feels
    anyone she loves has left her.  If you do choose to leave
    her, you will only reinforce her belief in this.  She might
    end up hating you for this.  Are you prepared for this?
    Are you prepared for the emotional toll she will take on
    you if you decide to stay?  
    
    go to an Alanon meeting and listen.  Read some books on 
    how ACOAs relate to people.  You may very well be the
    person to help her,but you need to understand what you
    are up against if that is what you choose to do.  
    Shes got more than just a problem with cocaine!  That
    is merely one way in which she copes with her problems.
    She's going to have to work on all of them (maybe not
    all at the same time).  In order for her to understand
    why she uses cocaine,she is going to have to understand
    her past and how it has and continues to affect her 
    life in the present. 
    
    Until she makes the first step, I would back off.  Only
    she can make it work.  You can help her along once she
    decides to work on the problems.  But you can not make
    her quit.  She has to do it on her own.
    
    Good luck
    

    I feel for you basenoter.  I've been there.  It's not easy to go
    through by ANY stretch of the imagination.
    
    The one thing that Al-Anon will teach you is tough love.  If you're
    always there to bail her out, the only thing you'll be doing is
    enabling her to continue.  ACOA will help her get a hold of what her
    mother has done to her...Al-Anon may even help *her* understand how sick
    her mom is.   But you can't help her until SHE wants to change her way
    of life.  That's the sad, and hard part.  Nothing you do or say is
    going to change anything...she's got to want to make a change, and
    make it work.
    
    As far as her doing things and taking care of her mother...the roles
    were reversed...she's become her mother's mother.  She's enabling her
    mother to continue HER way of life...ACOA would help her deal with
    that.
    
    My heart goes out to you...it hurts when you see someone you love and
    care about slowing flushing themselves down the toilet.  It's a very
    helpless feeling.
    
    I wish you luck,
    
    Lynne
    

    
    I also agree with the previous notes.  The cocaine is a symptom of her
    problems.  Although she may still need help when the time comes to stop
    taking it.
    
    You need to help yourself.  If you want to stay with her because you
    love her and you want her as part of your life, then you should stay. 
    If you want to stay with her because you're afraid of what it would do
    to her if you left, that's not a good reason to stay.  If you decide to
    stay, go to a group for help on how to deal with that.
    
    This girl has several emotional problems and should be seeing a
    psychologist, in addition to attending any and all supportive groups
    she can.  You cannot be her savior.  Many times there is help available
    for people in her type of situation for free.  Although I don't have
    that information for you, the various anon groups should.
    
    Her childhood sounded like a nightmare.  She needs help on how to deal
    with that.  It will always stay with her, but she can learn what effect
    it is having on her life and what to do about it.
    
    There's a lot more work involved than anyone of us can deal with in a
    notesfile.
    
    
    jean
    
    
    

    
    All of the advice given here has been dead on and worth following.
    When your childhood sucked and depressions come and go drugs look
    GREAT! They do "solve" the immediate problem- you feel better.
    Unfortunately you come down and the problems are still there waiting
    for solutions you're unable to provide. So- for no money down and lots
    of work ahead- go to any *A group- Nar-anon, alanon, NA, AA, ACOA;
    they're focused a little differently, but all based on the same
    premise. Get literature and pass it to Katie- she may throw it out, but
    it's important for her to get the message that her problems are her
    choice and so are the solutions.
    	On a strictly practical note: Don't be an "enabler" conciously or
    unconsciously; Put your money and valuables where they can't be
    "borrowed". Make your checking and savings single (NON-joint) accounts.
    Let it be known you think "Mom's" a lowlife and don't visit or tolerate
    her in YOUR life. If you're having sex with you're friend - be safe;
    people DO do the damndest things for drugs. Take mental care of
    yourself so when/if your friend wants to get better, you'll be there to
    help her. Don't cover her tracks for her. Love her , but DON'T bail her
    out. Often people have to get REALLY desperate before their vision
    clears and they can see their problems and possible solutions. Good
    Luck.
    		Take care,
    			Mike

    re.0
    I only read the first 30 lines of your note and none of the replys
    before entering this....
    
    Help her, insist that she seek rehab and if she dosen't cut her away
    like a bad parachute. I've been there and the eventual out come is
    very ugly.
    
    -j

    From the basenoter:
    
    Thanks for all the replies.  I'm doing my best to follow all the advice
    given.  Katie lost her job last week (intentionally).  About the same
    time, I gave her the ultimatum to chose me or the drug. Her son's
    father also learned that she was using cocaine and she got scared that
    her son might be taken from her.  I see a great improvement in her
    attitude and what appears to be a real commitment to staying away from
    the cocaine.  She's been cleaning house, making meals etc... for the
    first time in six months.  She's been reminding me frequently that she
    wants to live a clean lifestyle.  Katie's also stopped taking birth
    control pills and her mood swings seem to have virtually disappeared.
    
    She's also been much more open to talking about what is going on in her
    mind.  Her attitude about her family seems more consistent.  For the
    first time in six months, she turned down her mother's cry for help
    this past weekend telling her to fend for herself.   Her mom is in the
    process of getting evicted and it looks like she might move to the
    midwest (we're now on the east coast).  Either way, I plan on insisting
    that, for now, she break off contact with her mother.  I still hope
    that she'll get involved in some of the groups as well as professional
    counseling  suggested here and keep talking to her about it.  I guess
    I'll make a decision to stay or go depending on what happens over the
    next couple of months.  In the meantime, I am taking precautions to
    make sure my cash, credit etc... are protected.  Something that several
    people noted via e-mail was what made this relationship the best and
    that I should look at my past relationships as well.  I have.  Perhaps
    what I should have said was that if it weren't for the cocaine, this
    would be my best relationship up to now.  Still, I don't have what it
    takes to stay unless there is a real commitment to keeping off the
    drug.  Having a family is important to me and it couldn't happen with
    the present situation.  I also couldn't imagine having to live in a
    situation for any period of time where I couldn't trust the person I am
    with.  Thanks again for the advice.

A comment - if Katie has gone off contraceptive pills, you should "protect
yourself" in another way by using condoms (if you aren't already).

				Steve

    
    	Re .10 -
    
    	Good for you!
    
    >Still, I don't have what it
    >takes to stay unless there is a real commitment to keeping off the
    >drug.  Having a family is important to me and it couldn't happen with
    >the present situation.  I also couldn't imagine having to live in a
    >situation for any period of time where I couldn't trust the person I am
    >with.

    	One way to help her make a choice between her drug and recovery
    is to clearly and firmly explain these very feelings to her. In
    addition, get the point across *strongly* that there's no "buts" or 
    "caveats" or "exceptions" to your feelings. They're perfectly fine - 
    there's no need to have to justify them to her. 
    
   	Either she'll understand that you're the best thing that's ever
    happened in her life and make a change for herself, or she'll have
    to go and hit her bottom to make that change - not a space or time 
    you'd want to share with her...or anyone.

    	Joe