Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    I think intermarriage is O.K., but because each person's background is
    so different, it must take alot of extra work to make it succeed.
    Furthermore, each type of intermarriage (between different religions or
    different races) carries its own problems, which probably adds fuel to
    the fire.
    
    One aspect of intermarriage that does disturb me is the affect on the
    religion/race. As a Jew, I am concerned about the children of intermarriage
    and the chances of their continuing to practice Judiasm (we are a small
    population, after all). My feeling is that *generally*, children of
    mixed marriages in which the father is Jewish and the mother is not
    usually end up assuming another religion, whereas children of
    marriages in which the mother is Jewish and the father is not end up
    embracing Judiasm. Still, this is a Christian world, so it wouldn't
    surprise me if the higher percentage in either case ends up practicing
    a non-Jewish religion. (this is not foolproof, just what I've
    observed), and that might ultimately doom my religion.
    
    My overall personal feeling is that a marriage with someone of a similar
    background has a better chance to succeed because it doesn't have the
    problems (and stigmas) attached to a mixed marriage. I wouldn't object
    to my children marriage out of the faith/race, but a mixed marriage isn't
    something I would hope for them.
    
    Just my opinion.
    
    Nancy-
     

    I have a Jewish husband and I am Catholic.  We have an agreement, I
    support him on his holidays and he supports me on mine.  That means I
    go to temple on the high holidays and the Xmas tree goes up at Xmas
    along with the Menorah, we buy gifts for his family for Hanukkah and
    mine for Xmas.  We have no religion problems at all. It does work!
    
    
    Lynne

    re .-1
    <it does work>
    Do you expect that it will continue to work after you start having
    children?

    There is to me -the father of two daughters, the husband of a Jew and
    therefore the father of 'Jews' (under the right of return)- a certain
    irony that THE central point of Judaism -at least as a culture- has
    been the oppression it has experienced throughout the ages.
    
    I think a strong case can be made that it has been THAT experience that
    has ensured the perpetuation of Judaism; the very cornerstone of its
    existance has been a reaction to persecution. Stop the persecution -as
    has largely been done- in America, and the Jews start assimilating in
    startling -and to the Jewish conservatives, frightening- numbers.
    I hazard a guess that the most threatening possibility to nationalistic
    Israelis is genuine peace in the Middle-East. Because, _then_, I speculate
    they will be absorbed and assimilated within a few generations.
    
    
    				herb

    
    A friend who converted to Judaism following his marriage to a Jewish
    woman told me that he felt the major problem with Judaism was its own
    reluctance to genuinely accept converts. Most other religions/cultures
    fairly easily assimilate converts but the Jewish people seem to have
    some real problems with this.

Re: .5 by FSDEV::MGILBERT,

>    A friend who converted to Judaism ... told me that  ... the major
>    problem with Judaism was its own reluctance to genuinely accept
>    converts.

Tell your friend that --some Jews' personal feelings aside-- Judaism 
itself is very much pro converts.

-- Ron

    In this life you may choose one relative, your spouse. All the rest are
    landed on you like them or not. Who you choose should be a matter
    between you and that person, all others should respect that choice.

    I have a relative who is a rabid sexist and a raving zenophobic. Every
    time she sees a black male with a white female she whines the same old
    line, "Couldn't she have found a man of her own colour." It is
    interesting to note that if she sees a white male with a black female
    she keeps her evil mouth closed.

    I once asked her who gave her the right to say who may choose whom as
    their mate. Her reply was an enlightening, "Stands to reason."
    Attempting a rational conversation with her on that, and many other
    points is impossible. Thank goodness she never comes to visit us any
    more.

    Jamie.

    
    RE: .6
    
    While your statement may true in reform synagogues it goes against the
    traditions and teachings in conservative synagogues.
    
    

    As for my opinion, I'm somewhat disappointed at people's attitudes
    towards intermarriage.  It seems to me like people are still very
    parochial when it comes to this subject.  I thought there'd be greater
    acceptance but instead I see a lot of intolerance.  I have a terrible
    feeling that racism is back and it seems like its come back with a
    vengeance.
    
    Most of the mixed couples I know are mostly Chinese/Western, usually a
    Chinese woman married to a Western man.  Most Asian women who
    intermarry say they do so because Asian men tend to be more
    conservative than their Western counterparts.  Most of them seem to
    work out very well.  But I find their families disapprove of their
    marriages.  Outside of this, I know of one Jewish/Catholic marriage
    which is in the process of getting a divorce and a Jewish/Protestant
    one which is divorced.  Again there is great disapproval by their
    families.  My Catholic friend, who is going through a divorce with his
    Jewish wife, says his mother said "I told you not to marry her!"

    RE: .9
    
    	One needs to be exposed to it before you can truly accept it. It's 
    sad but true. My Jewish friend from above moved here from Texas in
    1986. Our families became very close. We would go to their home and
    celebrate Passover and Hanuaka. They would come to ours and celebrate
    Easter and Christmas. Each of children recognise the others parents as
    Aunt and Uncle. My children have visited their temple and their
    children have visited our church. There is simply no longer room for
    prejudice in our relationship because the fear of any of the myths that
    either party once might have posessed is gone. We lost our "aunt" (my
    friend's wife and my wife's best friend) to cancer this fall at the
    young age of 36. We'ld only known her for 5 years but she touched us
    more than any other human being we know.
     

I preface this with my feeling that I feel intermarriage is acceptable as long
as that relationship TRULY values each others heritage, and nobody unwillingly 
or with regrets sacrifices their heritage for the sake of the other spouse. (I
think the intermarriage divorces are the relationships that have problems in 
this area).

My attitude is that there is a danger in intermarriage.  I think there is a 
great beauty in everybodies culture, Christianity has much to teach Judaism, 
Judaism has much to teach Christianity.  Asian, Black, Arab, Indian... cultures
have wonderful and unique ideologies that we can all benefit from.   With 
intermarriage we develop a homogeneous society (which I feels makes us 
vulnerable to a totalitarian society very intolerable of deviations from the 
monolithic norms).  Not to sound too patriotic here but this countries 
founders (US) had the right idea in encouraging free and diversified 
practice of ideologies.  I think this diverse culture is what has made America 
great.  Maybe many of todays problems are due to a loss of ones identity in 
society.  Children grow up with no particular value system to attach to, so 
their culture becomes drugs, gangs, etc.  

We must not forget our respective heritages, they are important and are our 
future.  A monolithic culture where all races and religions are assimilated
would be boring and potentially dangerous to our growth as a society.  We
must make sure that our desire to preserve a race is not because we have the
attitude that "my belief is better than yours" but because it has something 
unique and important to offer our society.  We must "value differences" and 
use that to grow, we must not "forget our differences".
 

    I can't make comparisons because the only marriage I know first hand is
    my own :-).  My wife is Puerto Rico and I am WASP (as you might guess).
    However, we have lived in Puerto Rico for over thirty years and I pass
    for a native.  Since my wife converted from Catholicism as a child, the
    religious question is not significant to us.  The differences of
    language, literature, myths, popular music, holidays, and such do not
    generate as much heat as religion.  
    
    But, you know, the differences between men and women are more
    significant than any of these cultural differences, in my view.  The
    major challenge in mixed marriages is marriage, not the mixture.  The
    divorce rate among racially, religiously, and culturally homogenous
    couples is high enough.  Other differences are just frosting on
    the cake.  
    
    imho,
    
    Dick

    
    Two of my best friends are Jewish and Catholic and have been married
    since she was 16 and he was 20. They have 3 girls, 11, 7, and 9 months
    with another due in April. The only problems they have has nothing to
    do with their religions. Just the usual husband/wife things. There are
    also three couples at church; Japanese/American, Taiwanese/American,
    and Philipino/American; who have great relationships as far as I can
    tell. Their races don't even enter into it. As far as I'm concerned, if
    two people truly love one another and are willing to each give 100% of
    themselves, intermarriages *can* and do work just as any one else's does. 
    
    JMHO,
    Trudy

    I don't ever recall anyone in my family from my generation even dating
    another oriental.  So it's natural in my family that all of my married
    cousins are married to caucasians.
    
    As far as the strength of an inter-racial marriage goes, I can only
    address it from experience.  There is only one divorce in living memory
    within my family and that was my uncle who was married to a Japanese
    woman.  If I do a quick count of the inter-racial marriages there are
    16 and they all seem very strong.  The kids are real cute, too.
    
    The pressures a person faces when they are in an inter-racial
    relationship vary from the subtle to the violent.  I have had to endure
    fist flailing boneheads, nosey and rude old ladies, and the wrath of
    fathers who's paternal instincts go into hyper-protection mode when
    they see their daughters with me.  I learned to live with it by only 
    dataing women who's fathers had passed away. :-)
    
    Kris

    I figure hey, whatever floats your boat.
    
    There are much worse things you can do than (gasp!) marry someone
    who's not identical to yourself.

    My best friend truly believes that kids from inter-racial marriages
    turn out incredibly gorgeous...and this Chinese guy is getting ready
    to marry a Caucasian...
    
    Not that I believe in such wide-sweeping generalizations, but I haven't
    seen one to the contrary...:-)
    
    One problem that the older generation doesn't see for Asians is that
    Asians are a small percentage compared to "everybody else" so that
    Asians *ARE* going to come into contact with other ethnic groups and
    there will be friendly interactions between members of these diverse
    groups.  It's normal and there's nothing wrong with it in of itself.
    
    B.

    re: .16
    
    >My best friend truly believes that kids from inter-racial marriages
    >turn out incredibly gorgeous...and this Chinese guy is getting ready
    
    The most physically beautiful woman I've ever met was half Chinese/half
    Filipino.  Also I have to confess that the most attractive center-fold
    I'd ever seen in a "Playboy" magazine was a girl who was
    half-Japanese/half-Caucasian.
    
    PS - It was someone else's magazine.

    
    My aunt marrired a Jewish man who converted to Catholicism.  One of my
    best friend's mom converted to Judaism.  Both marriages are very solid,
    and the kids never had a problem.  
    
    I do agree w/ the person who said that it's the marriage, not the mix
    that usually causes a break up.  In my observances, the biggest problem
    w/ inter-racial/religion/ethnic marriages is the problems OTHER people
    have w/ the union.  If a man/woman makes you happy and visa versa, and
    all the right reasons are the, more power to it.  Who is to say what
    kind of person makes me happy.  In my case, it changes all the time
    (thank God I am single...;-})  I don't tell you what kind of car to buy
    or which book to read or who you can talk to, so don't tell me who I can 
    love.  (I do realize that it is more easily said than done, but it's
    MHO.)
    
    
    -raquel
    
    

    It is really interesting how narrow minded people can be, and I think I
    know what I am talking about.
    I am soon getting married to a black American.
    I myself am German.
    I see racism and hate on both sides, black and white people.
    White people will call a woman which gets married to a black man all
    names in the book and will ask her why she is lowering herself.
    Skinheads will terrorise you over here in Germany, black people will
    ask you why a black person wants to marry a white person, that would
    undermine the black race.
    Also Americans over here think if a German gets married to an American
    because we want to go to "the promised Land".....tsssssssss
    
    I really do not know what people think sometimes..........it sure is
    interesting what we get to hear............as for our relationship, I
    believe if you have something good going and you do not let people
    interfear into it than you will be good to go.
    
    I guess I have the Junglefeaver, but I had to laugh, because the one
    scene where all these black Ladies sit together and debate why black
    men turn to white women is totaly silly and I hope only the ones in
    that movie believe it.
    
    We and I think I can talk for a lot of white women, we do not go arount
    and "take away men"..............I always thought men can think for
    themselves, but Spike Lee made black women AND all men look stupid.
    
    If one believes that colour, race, or nationality matters, than I do
    think they have to be very narrow minded.
    God does not ask for a passport, colour or where you are from.
    
    Of course being together with someone who does not fit "the norm", is
    art, but I strongly believe it is us people which make norms, so why
    not let people live how they believe is right ?!?!
    
    I know 100 % that I can relate on my soon-2-be, and so knows he.
    
    Silvia 

             <<< ATSE::DOCDISK:[NOTES$LIBRARY]PHILOSOPHY.NOTE;1 >>>
                                -< Philosophy >-
================================================================================
Note 290.0           STUDY - CHILDREN OF INTERFAITH MARRIAGE          No replies
GUESS::THOMPSON "Mike  DLB 5-2/B10"                  38 lines  22-JAN-1992 08:03
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My wife is doing a PhD Thesis on the subject of growing up in an
interfaith marriage. An "interfaith marriage" is taken to mean that neither 
spouse converted. The study is concentrating on families which have
one Jewish parent.

Up to now, the majority of the subjects my wife has interviewed have tended
to be more strongly affiliated to the Jewish side. She is trying to reach
children of interfaith marriage who feel more strongly to be 
humanist, secularist or christian. I'm putting this note in PHILOSOPHY 
in the hope of such people.

If you know an interfaith family with one or more children whose age is
18-30 and who are as yet unmarried, please help her reach them. My wife
will approach them very diplomatically.

Again, the population for the study is defined by:
	1) Unmarried
	2) One of parents is Jewish
	3) The other parent is non-Jewish

PLEASE CALL
	(508) 263-5822 (7am to 11pm EST)
	(617) 552-2715 (24 hour line)
	Leave your name, number and best time to call. 
	We will set up a meeting at your convenience.

OR WRITE
	"Study of Children of Interfaith Families"
	Psychology Dept, Boston College, Chestnut Hill, MA 02167

The study looks at family dynamics and at both heritages *non-judgementally*
seeking insight.

Anonymity and confidentiality of responses is absolutely assured.
Findings are general and do not focus on individual partipants or families.

------------------------------------------------------------------------