Conference quark::human_relations-v1

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				Steve






    Your situation sounds so similar to mine ... I really feel for you at
    this time because I know how much your heart must be hurting.  I
    personally don't think you did the wrong thing by allowing yourself
    time to think about whether this is the person you will spend the rest
    of your life with.  Especially if at the beginning you were'nt crazy in
    love or physically attracted to the guy.  These things take time ...

    Now the ball is in his court and you must wait and see.  Don't give up
    on him completely.  Give him time to miss you.  Everyone in my life
    says "if it's meant to be -- it will be".  I truly believe that if two
    people are meant to be together nothing will tear them apart in the
    long run.  He has been through an emotional rollercoaster with you and
    his ego is probably shattered a bit.  Show him you love him without
    obsessing over him, send a card or call just to let him know you love
    him and care but don't go overboard!

    If it never works out just remember, for all this time, for probably
    the first time in your life, you have a HEALTHY relationship.  If it
    happened once, it will happen again, because you now know the type of
    person that you are looking for and even if he doesn't make you knees
    weak, he will *grow* on you.  How could he not, giving so much and
    expecting only love in return.

    Please write off-line if you need a shoulder -- and don't give up!

    -- Someone who's 29 and been there and back!

    Personally I think the guy has been excited and let down enough to
    warrant his reactions.  He needs to take a hard look at you and the
    relationship he has with you.  I've been in that situaton a couple
    times myself.  The best advice, is to "Wait and SEE!"  as the previous 
    request says even if he decides to call it off, at least you KNOW what
    you're looking for in a relationship now.  But, there's something more,
    
    You sound like a very emotional person, and that you don't like to make 
    a mistake.  Look at it this way, he's been engaged to you twice (you
    took the ring twice and returned it.) That's a lot rough to take from 
    someone you're in love with.  Then the fight, if all this happened in 
    a relatively short time, (Say a year, year and a half) then for him
    it's been a rough and rocky relationship filled with a lot of doubts
    on your part.   Now you say you are willing to do it.  But AFTER you
    had a bad fight with him and AFTER he's asked you to give him some time
    to sort things out.  Forgive me for this, but are you SURE about what
    you want?  Or has the feelings and emotions from his asking you to stay 
    away for a bit caused you to react like this?  
    
    It doen't really matter one way or the other I guess, but you should be
    aware of your reasons for what you feel.  As strange as it may sound,
    it 'sounds' like you need some time to sort through everything as well
    as.  Take advantage of the time, sort through what you feel for him,
    and figure out if you are READY for the move.  (In that part, I know
    what I'm talking about, I moved from California to New Hampshire to be 
    with someone I'd fallen in love with.  There were other reasons as
    well, but, she was one of the major ones.) 
    
    SKip

    re. last couple.   "Excellent"
    
    Should the two of you not get back together, at least you've
    experienced the other side and perhaps a string or rather a desire
    for you to start being attracted to such men will follow.  Your
    bound to latch up with someone worthy!  

    I did the same emotional rollercoaster ride with two ex-boyfriends.
    The first one went on every ride and was always still in the seat when
    the ride ended. The only thing was, he wanted to keep riding the
    rollercoaster and not get off (i.e., get married).
    
    The second boyfriend went on the ride twice. The third time he called
    it quits because he couldn't stand being jerked around so much. Believe
    it or not, I thought #2 was the "one." My life came to a screeching
    halt for three months. But it gave me time to
    realize who I am, what I want, to settle down, and GROW up so that I
    don't/won't make men ride my rollercoaster anymore.
    
    Men seem to be able to let go a lot easier than women. This is not
    meant as an insult, but not too many are as sensitive as we'd like, so
    if he puts some distance between you expect it. Doesn't mean he's off
    meeting other women, replacing you. Means he wants to make a point that
    he doesn't ever want you to do this again. But if you're like me, there
    is no guarantee something won't trigger you again until you have your
    emotions under control. Maybe some time away from each other will help. 

    re.4  "Men seem able to let go alot easier than women"
    
    Well, I don't know if that's true universally.  I think most men
    may get it out of their system earlier by aggresively acting out
    their frustrations.  Example-getting into physical fights on purpose
    and not caring to lose.  Drinking excessively, just real destructive
    behaviour.  But once, that's all over, they get on with it.  Whereas,
    most women may tend to hold it in longer and feel depressed rather
    than actively getting the hurt out.

    According to Psycology Today, it's actually just the opposite, women 
    tend to let go alot eaiser because they tend to deal up front with 
    there emotions and not hold as much inside (The old it's okay for girls 
    to cry but boys aren't supposed to bit).  
    
    It took me 6 years to FULLY recover from my first wife's death.  2.5
    years to recover from my divorce.  
    
    Skip

    Just call me an insensitive pond scum SOB, 'cause once I get to the
    point of walking, I've done all the processing I'm planning on doing. 
    I've also reached a point where I've given all the effort I'm gonna
    give.  Now that I'm done, I'm done.  
    
    Why would I spend a lot of time fretting about what was?  I will spend
    a significant piece of time figuring out how to keep from getting into
    another losing situation.  I'll spend time looking at how I get into
    relationships and what is good, bad, indifferent about them.  I will
    examine new relationships and try to avoid the patterns which caused me
    so much pain.  Most of all, I will continue to enjoy my life.
    
    8-)
    jimc

    Hi Everybody,
    
    Thanks for the advice.  I must have read each response 10 times
    over.  I've also taken each one to heart and left Ken alone
    to make up his own mind.  
    
    I thought I would bring you up to date on the situation.
    I received a phone call from Ken a few days ago.  We talked 
    and he agreed to come down Monday so we can talk things over. 
    He is thinking about moving to Florida and he is flying down
    to take a test the 2nd week in November.  He clearly stated
    that this move depends on the outcome of our relationship.
    He ownes a condo down there so this is something he is
    thinking about very seriously.
    
    I'm relieved he called and he is willing to talk.  I'm also 
    scared.  Does this make sense?  I feel as though he is 
    putting so much pressure on me.  He is still so angry at
    everything ***I DID***.  He keeps reminding me that No One
    would have put up with what he has for the last 8 months. 
    I know he is getting alot of advice from his friends
    That's a big ------ .  I'm also being reminded of how 
    old I am.  He thinks a woman my age should have been
    able to make up her mind along time ago.  At any rate
    my self confidence has taken a blow.  I know he is confused
    and angry so I'll be patient.   
    
    At any rate I'll just have to wait and see.  Until then
    Monday seems soooooo far away.  I hope I don't die of heart
    failure by then.  After all, A woman my age could go at
    any minute. ;*)
    

    re.8
    pressure on you...
    
    Sounds to me he has had all the jerking around he's going to take from
    you (rightly so  IMHO) and has decided to give you a last choice to
    make before he stops wasteing his time.
    
    I've dated alot of women with your problem if it were me I'd have been
    history long ago.
    
    -j 

    The following reply has been contributed by a member of our community,
    not the author of the base note, who wishes to remain anonymous.  If
    you wish to contact the author by mail, please send your message to
    QUARK::MODERATOR, specifying the conference name and note number. Your
    message will be forwarded with your name attached  unless you request
    otherwise.

				Steve






     Re: .9
    
     Just a minute Bucko!
    
     You have dated women with her problem.  Well EXCUSE MEEEE
     Sounds to me like like confusion/honesty played a big part
     in this relationship.  
    
     Yes the relationship has suffered some emotional problems.
     Yes they both are hurt and Yes it will take alot of work
     to restore.  But let us not forget grasshopper, there
     are two sides to every coin.  5 months is not a very long
     time to decide whether or not you want to spend the rest
     of your life with someone.  At least not for me anyway.
    
     I think he has done the right thing.  And yes his actions
     are more then justified.  He has done alot of suffering along
     with HER.  It sounds to me like she has done some suffering
     herself.  Trying to work on this problem by seeking counceling.
     I believe they Both will be under quite a bit of pressure and
     for quite some time.  You Both have alot of work to do.
    
     And the flip side to .9.  I have dated men with your problem
     also and was more than relieved when they decided to walk 
     away.  As a matter of Fact I even gave them a little shove.
    
     Good Luck to the both of you!
    

    re.10
    Yawn....
    
    -j
    

Hi again,

It's me the base noter.  Well dinner never happened.  He 
called me Friday to cancel.  I begged him all weekend to 
come.  He cannot.  One minute he said he would the next
he'd call and cancel.  Finally Sunday night he called 
and said he couldn't.  I let it go at that.  I really
tried to convince him to just come over and talk.

His reply is that his friends and family are telling 
him to stay away.  He said he is afraid to listen to 
his heart and is listening to the adivse of others.
He tells me he still loves me but he can't treat
me like a yoyo.  One minute saying he will come the
next calling me up to cancel.  He's just not sure. 
I have to accept that.  I've done alot of wrong in this 
relationship, been very confused from the beginning.
I had and have alot of work to do.  I just don't understand
why this had to happen now.  Why couldn't I have learned
this lesson along time ago.

I don't blame him for his reactions.  I'm just very sad 
that I'll never have the opportunity to love him the way 
he deserved.

I've tried all angels, I've driven up his house at
2:30 in the morning and pleaded.  I've sent him 
card's, love letter's ect...  Nothing works.  I guess
it's time for me to walk away....  

I've learned a hard lesson from this.  
I've learned never to take anyone's love for granted.

Thanks again for all your replies.  Taking one day 
at a time.

"me"  

>I've tried all angels, I've driven up his house at
>2:30 in the morning and pleaded.  I've sent him 
>card's, love letter's ect...  Nothing works.  I guess
>it's time for me to walk away....  


I don't think it is necessarily time to walk away - but possibly time to leave
him alone just for a while... and by a while I mean in the order of weeks/months
not days...

I have been in a reverse situation and while all the pleading and begging was
going on I couldn't think straight - so my panic reaction was to back off...
perhaps if I'd been given time I could have worked it out - but at the time it
was all too much and I just backed off... it felt like being the object of an
obsession...

In the meantime, while you are giving him some time try and find something
that will occupy your time... have a "life of your own"...

It seems that the balance has been reversed... in your first note it sounded
like he was doing most of the pursuing in the beginning... please note your
reactions to this... being pusued is scary, especially if you aren't sure you
want it... and your reaction is to reject the pursuer - probably because that is
easier than trying to lessen the pursuance to an acceptable level.  Your 
boyfriend is now doing the same thing you did (an on-off dinner date, much like
your on-off engagment).  I don't believe this is deliberate... I just think you
probably haven't given each other enough time...



Xtine

>> I don't think it is necessarily time to walk away - but possibly time to 
	leave
>> him alone just for a while... and by a while I mean in the order of 
	weeks/months
>> not days...


>>In the meantime, while you are giving him some time try and find something
>>that will occupy your time... have a "life of your own"...

	Wonderful advice Xtine.  I agree.

	Mikki

    Don't consider this book finished!!! I must have broken up with my
    first (and probably only) "boyfriend" of 4 years at least 5 times and
    every time we got back together. If it is meant to be, then you will
    work things out. The important thing is NOT to put your life on hold.
    That means, don't crawl under the covers and cry your heart out over
    this for more than a week (two max!). You have to do this regardless,
    but then try and spend some time by yourself to get strong and
    independent and to LEARN from this situation.  The worst thing you can
    feel now is depressed, a failure, incredibly hopeless. Time spent apart
    from each other will definitely determine the future of this
    relationship.  And if he wants to move away from you, then let him. The
    time apart may make him realize how much he does care for you, just
    don't wait by the phone and mailbox, you'll only set yourself up for
    more heartache and disappointment.  Take this time to GROW UP and
    become stronger.

    The following reply has been contributed by a member of our community
    who wishes to remain anonymous.  If you wish to contact the author by
    mail, please send your message to QUARK::MODERATOR, specifying the
    conference name and note number. Your message will be forwarded with
    your name attached  unless you request otherwise.

				Steve






Basenoter,

What a rollercoaster!  You know it, too.  I feel for you in this situation.
You had said something quite awhile ago that no one seemed to touch upon.  Your
previous relationship, according to you, was abusive.  I think this guy has a
tendency to be abusive, too!  This stuff about "a woman your age" is garbage in
my mind!!!  Given the same set of circumstances to any woman, you know?  People
can't make judgements w/o walking in their shoes.  I think this guy did you a
potential favor!  I bet after therapy, you aren't the same person you
were before and that you will no longer be in the mind set to need someone who
abuses you.  Maybe it was love, but abusive love.  And time away for both of
you is the best medicine for something like that.  It's so good that you are
getting counseling.  Breaking away from relationships that are abusive is SO
difficult.

I think later on, you may see that it is a positive thing that you did not
marry.  You never really know someone till you go through the rough times...
you know?  And it seems like he wasn't willing to stick it out...

And as for the guy who said..."I've dated women like you, and I would've been
history a long time ago..."  well, that isn't the kind of guy you would want!
Sounds like someone you can REALLY rely on, eh!  :'}

Sure, you have things that you need to work out, but if they aren't willing to
stick around and try to make it better, then, I believe that you would be
better off.  The pain hurts, though, I know.

Maybe after time, things settle, you can ask him if he would consider
pre-marital counseling!  That way, it would be a safe environment for you to
explore if he is really what you need/want and visa versa.

Best of luck to you.  Keep us posted.