Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Asking her out.
    
    Eugene

    I am not surprised.  In Japan they have "unisex" bathrooms, and I have
    been in those, as long as they have DOORS where is the problem? I could
    not care less who is in next cubicle... Men have the same needs as
    women.

I've seen this happen lots of places.  Other than the observation that if the
reverse situation happened (man using the women's bathroom), he'd be tossed
out or arrested, I can't get myself worked up about it.  Women need more
facilities and more time-per-user than men do, and the facilities should be
adjusted accordingly.

				Steve

    My junior year, the residence hall floor I resided in voted to have
    co-ed bathrooms.  There weren't any problems that I can recall.
    
       - Larry

There are actually several different situations to consider.  The one mentioned
in the base note had two large bathrooms, one each for men and women, each
one serving multiple people.  At stadiums, etc., this is the standard
arrangement.  In the men's bathroom,  there will be a dozen or more urinals
which are most heavily used and also have the fastest turnaround.  (Though
once when I was at Great Woods in southern MA, I saw men using the communal
sink as another urinal.  In these cases, the lines for the women's facilities
are very long and often there is a half hour or longer wait.  Those women who
decided to brave the men's bathroom are few, and may get an angry reaction
from many of the men inside.

In other places, there are single-user rooms, marked men and women, but
otherwise no distinction.  I really see nothing wrong with a woman using
the men's room, or vice versa, in this case.  It's just an arbitrary
separation.

It seems to me we've discussed this issue before here....

		Steve

    re .0 Pretty ballsy, I'd say ;-)

    This week-end I took several Girl Scouts to the local Zoo for 
    'Zoo Day'. The entire cousil (over 50 schools) went. Needless
    to say the ladies room was a problem. Lines were 20 to 30 kids/women
    deep. I ran by to take my son to the bathroom and the men's room was 
    not being used. Normally I take Dev into the ladies room because he has
    problems opening the door to get out once he is inside. Some of the
    leaders were wondering out loud if it would be appropriate to comendere
    the Mens room to speed things up. 
    
    I said "go for it" the females outnumber the males here today by 15 to
    1 and these are kids we are talking about-Not many 5 and 6 years olds
    can wait 20 or 30 minutes. So two lines were formed and men could get
    in line and have the room to them selves when thier turn came.
    
    I think that asking a child to wait 30 or 40 minutes with his mother 
    when the male facilities are not being used is silly. I saw this happen
    at a Drive in. At the intermission the women were in line with all the
    little kids and thier was barley breathing room in the ladies room much
    less room for knee grabbers that some adults tend to forget exist. The
    line outside the restroom was more than 40 moms/kids deep. Now some of
    these little folks need help/security and cannot be sent into the 
    mens room alone or are to afraid to go in alone. So a delightful woman
    made sure the mens room was empty and then sent twenty or so moms/kids
    in to do thier stuff. The men were asked to wait for a few minutes and
    it was all of ten minutes and the line was gone and all the kids were 
    back in thier cars waiting for the movie to start, and the mens room
    was a mens room again.
    janet
    

I have no problem with it, however I might be concerned about the reaction
or behavior of some men occupying the men's room.  There are times that as
a man I would prefer not to enter the men's room (Steve's aforementioned use
of the sink being one, the general condition in which some leave the stalls
as another).  But generally, I would have no problem with it.




Jim

>     <<< Note 1096.3 by QUARK::LIONEL "Free advice is worth every cent" >>>

>Other than the observation that if the
>reverse situation happened (man using the women's bathroom), he'd be tossed
>out or arrested

	It depends on the situation.

	I've seen many a man enter a woman's bathroom to use it and no
	one thinking twice about it--he was neither thrown out or arrested.

	In fact, the most recent time I saw three men in a woman's bathroom
	all at the same time...they were having makeup applied to their
	faces by three of their women friends.......it was, literally,
	business as usual.


	Then again, some women's bathrooms are more uptight than others.

	kathy

	I like this topic.  I can remember a couple of circumstances in which the
women comandeered the men's room.  

	The first was a a male strip show.  The men's room (obviously) was 
totally empty and the ladies room had a line like you read about.  So, we
started using the men's room.  It got to be kinda funny when the male strippers
came in to take care of make-up or costumes.  We all just made the best of it.
It was actually kinda fun.

	The other was a time in a Friendly's in Connecticut.  Long line for
ladies room.....men's room vacant.  So, we posted someone (me) at the door
to the men's room.  The women used it until a male showed up.  He waited in
line til the lady using it was done.  Worked fine.

	As far as I've ever seen, as long as you don't step over the 
boundaries of good taste, why not use facilities that are available?

    Personally to me, I don't care. And if there is someone of the opp
    gender who wants to use the mens or womens rest rooms and no one has a
    problem, why not! Execpt I could see some problems with personal rights
    and perhaps someone getting raped or molested doing this on their own.
    And maybe in this case, someone could be inviting trouble? Gee, tough
    call but why not? 

Phew !  I'm glad the response from the men is positive.  I often use the men's
loo due to long queue's for the ladies.  So far I've only had one comment from	
a man who pointed out I was in the wrong place.

When a woman's gotta go, she's gotta go.

Wendy

        During St. Patrick's Day festivities a couple of years ago,
    a woman (accompanied by a male friend) entered the men's room I was in 
    and proceeded to use a stall (with the friend standing at the door.)
    When she came out, however, she went to the line of urinals and
    proceeded to watch the men (with a grin on her face.)  Somewhat
    instigatory, I'd say.
        Earlier this year a woman in a workshop I was attending also
    entered the men's room I was in and used a stall.  My biggest 
    objection was the lack of respect for the men.  That is, she 
    did not announce her entry, just entered.  Any man wanting his
    privacy (i.e., not ashamed in front of men, perhaps, but maybe
    in front of women) would have had it compromised.  I do not mind
    women using men's rooms as long as they respect the men in there
    (and wouldn't complain in a reverse situation.)
    
    Frederick
    

    RE: <<< Note 1096.13 by MISERY::WARD_FR "Going HOME--as an Adventurer" >>>

>                                                      I do not mind
>    women using men's rooms as long as they respect the men in there
>    (and wouldn't complain in a reverse situation.)
    
          Aye, and there's the rub.  A man taking advantage of the women's
    restroom has a very real and likely chance of going to jail, being
    screamed at or maced (depending upon the occupants).  Women in the
    men's room might be considered 'cute', get a round of nervous "whoa"
    sounds accompanied by quickly rising zippers, get a few offers for
    dates or the most likely reaction: nothing but a few looks.
    
          It's not a big deal, but participation on the male side is a far 
    more serious consideration.
    
                                      Greg    

    

    
    
    
    		Following an overnight flight into Logan, I was waiting for 
    	the train at North station at about 6:00a.m.  After a few coffees I
     	developed the urge.  Seeing as the mens room in the station was
    	apparently out of order, (I had just watched someone be freed after
        about 90 minutes of entrapment behind a locked mensroom door, not
    	to mention the typical train station bathroom lovliness  8')
     
    		I walked across the street from Boston Garden to
        MCDONALD's.   My urge had evoloved into a need!!
    
    		Upstairs to the men's room I was told.  I opened the door
    	and was greeted with about an inch or so of liguid on the floor.
    
    		YEECH!!!! FRIG THIS!! said I and proceeded to stake out the
    	ladies room in anticipation of a vacancy.  Spying my opportunity,
    	I entered, claimed the only stall and took a seat.
    
    		About a minute later, the outer door opened and a woman
    	walked in.  Oh Oh!! What next??
    
                I could hear her rummaging through her handbag.  Then
    	I hear a sarcastic "This is great" and she left the restroom with
    	heavy steps.   (X-RAY vision?.....maybe she looked under the door
    	and saw abit too much hair on the legs???......beats me!)
    
                I finished up and when I exited.....There she was...
    
                Looking really pissed!!!  Arms folded across her chest and
    	an expression of disgust.
    
                Needless to say, I chose not to establish a dialogue with this
    	woman, but rather, dipped my head and took off like a shot.
    
                
    				It's always something!!!
                
                                                                 

    I wish I'd have had the guts to do something like that.  Especially
    when you go to a club and there's a line a mile long in the Ladies room
    while there's no one near the men's room.  Doesn't anyone think about
    the fact that women aren't designed to be *camels* like men seem to be!
    
    Tammi

    PPPPPPPPPutttt! OOOOOh Wilber!

    Part of the problem is that men's rooms usually have more 
    facilities than women's rooms.  (It's not that women 
    "take more time" then men.)   During the intermission of a 
    concert or play, there is no reason why a woman shouldn't use 
    the men's room if it's not occupied.  When I've been in that 
    situation (which has been more than once), one woman "stood 
    guard" to prevent any men from entering (in case men suddenly 
    showed up) while another woman used the bathroom.  When I was 
    at a concert at the Centrum this summer, there was a LONG line 
    outside the women's room and the men's room was EMPTY.  The 
    Security Guards actually TOLD the women to use the men's 
    room.  Surprisingly, a couple of women objected.  The Guards 
    said do what you want, but unless you use the men's room you're 
    going to end up missing part of the concert.   On the news last 
    night the reporter spoke about an incident where a woman used 
    the men's room at a concert, was arrested, and fined $200. 
    The group performing at the concert felt she had been treated 
    unfairly, so they sent her free tickets to their next concert.
    Unfortunately, she still owed $200.
    
    If rest rooms are for "one" person, there is absolutely no 
    reason why a woman shouldn't go into an empty men's room, or 
    vice versa.  It would be ridiculous to wait.
    
    Solution: more rest rooms, more facilities in the women's rooms.
    

    re: .18 
    
        Ummm, according to two separate studies done within the past
    two years or so, women *do* take markedly longer than men.  Part
    of it has to do with the clothing, which is less removable quickly
    than men's (at least for these purposes.)  Almost all women
    also have additional functions to perform.  Whatever, the length
    of time taken by a woman will in most cases be longer.  
        As for facilities, men free up a great deal of space (and use
    less water and no toilet paper) by using urinals.  Which is the
    only reason men's rooms, though of the same dimensions, may have
    more facilities.  Although I have heard about women's urinals,
    apparently they are not commonly available.
        Is this bathroom humor?  ;-)
    
    
    Frederick
    

    I suppose it depends on one's purpose in entering a relief station. 
    When my husband and I are out, and both of us need to empty our
    bladders at the same time, *if both male and female restrooms are
    equally available* he still finishes first.  I judge this based on the
    fact that he's waiting for me outside the women's room.
    
    I conducted an experiment (admittedly on too small a sample in which to
    place much trust - placing this more in the realm of anecdotal
    experience).  Upon one of these occasions, when we both had to go, I
    asked him to urinate and ablute - hope this doesn't set off an uproar
    of angry non-washers ;) - while I would do the same.  No hair-combing,
    make-up adjusting, idle eavesdropping (the converstations you *hear* in a
    restroom).  Both of us were wearing jeans, btw.  He was finished first.
    
    I figure that having to drop my jeans and sit down ("Mention my name,"
    remarked a male friend; upon my asking why he replied, "You'll get a
    seat on the water") and make use of tp adds appreciably to my time.
    
    Oh, well.
    aq
    

    There is an article in the Boston Herald today about a woman 
    who was fined and thrown out of a concert for trespassing in
    the men's room.
    
    She is apparently going to court over the issue.
    
    Bonnie

    Bonnie,
    
    	The woman in question was the woman who went to a concert and was
    fined $75 for using the mens room. She has a sister who is an attorney
    who wants to appeal this issue. I was just getting a general consences
    to what folks think of if one is crouded and one is not, why not or
    what ever. Anyone can appeal a court order, it is your constutional
    right as a citizen of the US.

    George, I think youre talking about a different case.  The one Bonnie
    is talking about (I think) is the one where she was a country and
    western show (walon Jennings) and the line was significantly longer for
    the women, so she went into the mens room, a cop who was pulling
    bouncer noticed this and busted her for breaking an ordinance stating
    that oposite sexes mist use their 'own' facilities.  I think the real
    big deal about this whole thing was her comments and actions once in
    the mens room.  After finishing her business, she stated "There, I lift
    the seat up jes like y'all like it".  The she leared at a couplle of
    men doing their thing at the stalls and giggled whilst walking out.
    
    In all honesty, if I was the men she was learing at, I would have
    charged her with sexual harassment....to make a statement mainly.
    'cause I KNOW that if it were the other way around, the male would be
    in deep dodo....
    
    PS: The max penalty is a $200. fine.  BFD.

    Re: .23
    
    I read in the paper this morning that the woman was aquitted of
    the charge.
    
    FWIW, the concert was by George Strait, and she had paid $125 (!)
    to attend.
    
    				Steve

         I like the part of today's article on the issue that said "she
    covered her eyes and apologized to the men already in the restroom at
    the Summit".
    
         Ah what the heck, maybe a case involving a man using the women's
    restroom can use this as a precedent.
    
                                      Greg

    RE: Steve
    I stand corected on both counts pal.... I read it this morning also...
    
    RE: Greg,
    as for her covering her eyes, that never was said until she was in the
    court hous.. I wonder...

    Apparently in this case there was a specific law on the books
    prohibiting someone from using the restroom facilities intended for
    the opposite sex "in a manner intended to create a disturbance".  The
    defense successfully argued that the woman had no such intent.  I
    presume the law was passed in reaction to some earlier incident -
    that's usually how these show up.
    
    			Steve

    RE: <<< Note 1096.28 by QUARK::LIONEL "Free advice is worth every cent" >>>

    >Apparently in this case there was a specific law on the books
    >prohibiting someone from using the restroom facilities intended for
    >the opposite sex "in a manner intended to create a disturbance".
    
         Yeah, I noticed that part of the law.  I guess that is why it was
    important for her to say that she covered her eyes and apologized.  If
    it could be proven that she did (as was mentioned in reply .23)
    make comments while checking out the guys at the urinals, she would
    have been convicted.  My guess is that it wasn't important enough to
    the guys to show up and testify against her.
    
                                    Greg

    You got that right Greg.  THe media cant decide what they want to
    print.  I read the globs account, and the telegraphs account... each
    were significantly different.

    .23
    
    No, I had seen this on CNN and they had said if she did not apeal the
    case it would have cost her only $75, but because she has a sister who
    is an attorney, she is going to court and don't forget there are court
    cost, and there are etc to apeal this so the total cost for apeal could
    start around $200, but what do I know, I wasn't there.... 
    
    .24
    
    $125 to attend a concert?? Sounds like someone is telling tall tails...
    What row seat was she in to pay $125?? Besides the mens room seats?
    (alittle pun there ;-) )
    
    George

Re: .32

I must admit that the stated price of $125 astonished me.  Especially for
a performer of whom I had never heard.  But I'll guess that that figure
included more than just the ticket price.  Or maybe she got the tickets from
a scalper...  This is, of course, entirely irrelevant to the case.

				Steve

    <----
    
    This could be also contrived by her sister the lawyer. Sounds like a
    loaded deck already!

One of the articles I read said she was "relieved" with the verdict :^)



Jim

    OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH! What a bad pun! Next time she gets a seat on the
    water! :-))))

    And the $75 is the fine, and this is problably where they get the $200!