Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    I use one.  The ones handed out by DEC are serialized and issued to
    anyone who is involved in product development, testing, research.  Not
    only are the pages numbered and impossible to remove without detection,
    but those who use one are instructed to use indelible ink only. At the
    bottom of each page are areas for witness signatures, dates, and
    application/project information. 
    
    My notebook contains doodles, circuits designs, numbers which may
    have meant something at one time, calculations which also may have
    meant something at one time, tables, test results, and assorted
    text.  I use mine because I have a tough time remembering three
    number combinations let alone maximum signal rise time information
    for data signals in a 6460.
    
    Notekeeping goes back before Leonardo.  Probably all the way back
    to some guy who painted a cave drawings to remind him which end
    of a mastadon hurts more. 
    
    Kris
    

    What Kris says is what it says on the label. In reality, in some places
    (like much of SW engineering), they're hard to get ahold of because
    they're allegedly expensive (for reasons that I've never understood,
    they're supposed to cost $75-$150 per book, depending on who you ask),
    and managers are cheap and lazy. This means that we rely on either the
    old-fashioned bound composition notebooks (which differ only in not
    having the little areas at the bottom of each page for witnesses to
    sign), or even spiral notebooks. This causes our patent lawyers no end
    of consternation, 'cause they really like engineering notebooks.
    
    The reason for all of this is that when you get a patent, you need to
    have documentation of what you've invented. Ultimately, the patent
    application itself will have that, but if there's a suit over the
    invention, it really helps to have design notes.
    
    Unfortunately, in the software world, few of us are so d�class� as to
    actually use base paper any more. Seriously, the reality of life these
    days is that design is done electronically. For the patent I've in the
    works, most of the design work was done by electronic mail (and in my
    head). I had a working prototype running before any pens touched paper.
    
    I've spoken to a bunch of our patent lawyers about this problem -- that
    we don't use paper, and our managers refuse to buy it for us anyway --
    and they're working on the problems. But the larger problem is that the
    computer revolution has taken over the computer industry so thoroughly
    that it's actually an imposition to use paper; paper is downright
    unnatural.
    
    I wouldn't mourn the passing of things like Leonardo's notebooks,
    though. If I take my electronic notes and copy them to optical disk,
    they'll last a lot longer than they will on acid-laced paper. But I
    must admit -- I do make good doodles, and it's a shame to lose them.
    
    	Jon

    i don't use them now but when i was in a pure research organization i
    had to, for patent reasons.
    
    only indelible ink.  no blank spaces.  pages used and dated in
    consecutive order.  every three days someone who could understand what
    i was doing had to read, sign, and date each page to certify that it
    was used, they knew and understood what it contained, there were no
    blank spots, and each deletion was readable (ie. only one line crossing
    out a mistake), initialed, and dated by myself.
    
    pain in the neck.  BUT!  i always knew where my data was (it had to be
    glued securely to the page so that it could not be removed or altered
    without detection in later examination)....
    
    lt

    There was a court case called Fergerson VS Vergitron.
    This took place in Dover N.H. The botton line was that the employees were
    using company time and material to develope their own widget to sell in
    the same market that this comapany sold. Fergerson lost, under
    something called shop rights. 
    	
    	Digital has had a number of these
    situations happen to them. A more popular one, which I think Dec did
    nothing about was Data General and the Unibus bus. All they want to do
    is protect their butts, like having a house guest use your home for
    sometime and have some personal stuff disapear. 
    
    	I know that I am deep waters with this reply. So I am now going 
    to go hid under my desk as you all shoot at me. :-$
    
    
    Geo 

    Um, is this topic perhaps more relevant to HUMAN::DIGITAL?  I'm
    trying to see the connection with the theme of human relations.
    
    			Steve

    Steve,
    
    
    	Perhaps the fact is that where does a corp and the mind of an
    individual stop and end? Why does a corp own our minds even if we
    develope a widget on our own time and becaues many of us sign a paper
    that says all those things you invent is Decs or some other corps.

    Just some info for those who are curious... 
    
    Someone questioned the price of these notebooks and said that the only 
    difference between them and college theme books is the price, also 
    someone mentioned "writing on acid laced paper"
    
    The reason these notebooks cost between $75. - $150. is they are made 
    (normally) with a high cotten fiber content paper that is treated to 
    be acid free.  Such paper is very expensive but the shelf life of it 
    preported to be between 80 - 100 years before it starts to "break down" 
    under normal conditions.  With care it is preported to last twice that 
    long.  As to if this is true or not, no one knows for certain yet... 
    Acid free cotten fibered paper is relatively new compared to regular 
    paper.  (developed within the last 20 years or so)  Further, unlike 
    normal paper which is meant to let paper stay on the exposed surface,
    the cotton fiber paper is designed to absorbe the ink deeper into the 
    fibers to make earasure more difficult and prevent as much "age-fade" 
    as possible.  I've worked with the paper before when doing some of my 
    calligraphy (it is called "treated parchment") it takes india ink as
    well as the washable inks beautifully and from an artistic standpoint 
    it's a great surface to work on.  Part of that is due to the 80 - 90 
    percent cotton fiber content in the paper (higher then most other 
    parchments). Part is because of the way it does absorbe the ink.  Even 
    unbound and loose leaf this paper is EXPENSIVE!  One ream (500 sheets) 
    will run between $100.00 and $150.00 wholesale. Take in the expense 
    of binding which is normally a superior job then the collage theme
    books using a higher quality thread for the stiching process and then 
    add the expense of the more durable genuine simulated leather back
    binding (-:, and it gets to cost a fair sum of money... then add that 
    the company making the books need there profits as well as any other 
    company and the price gets even higher.
    
    Skip

	  In addition to the cost of the physical book, there is the cost
     of the record keeping and archiving.  The books are serial numbered,
     issued to individuals by name, logged out of the Notebook Admin-
     istration group and logged back in, indexed for content, and then
     retained for a long as attorneys figure there might possibly be
     material of possible patent interest -- and attorneys are very
     conservative about "might possibly."  I believe that the record
     keeping and archiving costs are included in that absurdly high dollar
     figure....  I mean, they're reasonable (but not spectacularly good)
     notebooks, but a _dollar and a half_ a _sheet_? 
     
	  And the human relations aspect, of course, is that they are
     sometimes used as status symbols.  Not by me, of course.  I _need_
     mine....

				Brian Hetrick 

    
    I have a classic and true story about engineering notebooks, though
    this took place at my former employer, RCA.
    
    An engineer in the Government Communication Systems Division spent
    his lunch hours designing an electric katchup dispenser. Of course 
    he did his designs in his notebook right alongside his circuit design
    work on black boxes for the military and/or the CIA/NSA. Well, one
    day, the contracting agency audited the department, and in an audit,
    they usually just check timecards, etc. This time they wanted all
    the engineering notebooks, to compare the time logs to the submitted
    timecards. Well, apparently, there was a LOT of explaining to do when
    the Navy or NSA questioned why they were paying for someone to design
    a katchup dispenser...
    
    As a result there was a great flurry of memos and group meetings about
    the "proper use" of notebooks throughout the company. 
    
    /ljj
    

>   .6 LIONEL 
>    Um, is this topic perhaps more relevant to HUMAN::DIGITAL?  I'm
>    trying to see the connection with the theme of human relations.
    
Steve,
   
   Frankly, I was looking for the more human angle on this, and was
afraid posting it in ::DIGITAL would yield a policy statement, period.

Part of my interest in this is ... well, I guess I'm surprised that 
English departments don't recommend these strongly.  Our professors 
who encouraged writing were forever encouraging journals and writing
down one's literary thoughts ... and this type of log seems such a
natural for the neophyte writer, that I'm puzzled this log book
hasn't crept into the lit folk's armamentatium. Maybe another subtle
symptom of Art vs Science?  And I expected, and have been getting,
very interesting comments here.   Meigs