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Conference quark::human_relations-v1

Title:What's all this fuss about 'sax and violins'?
Notice:Archived V1 - Current conference is QUARK::HUMAN_RELATIONS
Moderator:ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI
Created:Fri May 09 1986
Last Modified:Wed Jun 26 1996
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1327
Total number of notes:28298

1076.0. "Do actions ALWAYS speak louder?" by AKO569::JOY (Get a life!) Mon Sep 24 1990 15:13

    After reading through a few notes, I noticed the term "actions speak
    louder than words" quite a few times. Most of the time, this was in
    reference to where someone was SAYing something positive ("I love you,
    not her; Of course I trust you", etc) and the actions was the opposite
    (he's writing her love notes, she gets cold toward him when his female
    friends call, etc). What I'm wondering is if you should usually believe
    the actions over the words? What if the words are the negative message
    and the actions are the positive message? i.e. words = "I don't love
    you", action = all the usual things you'd think of when someone is in
    love. Which do you believe....the actions or the words?
    
    Debbie
    
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1076.1QUARK::LIONELFree advice is worth every centMon Sep 24 1990 15:196
I believe both are important, but actions more so.  Having actions speak
louder than words does not imply words are silent.  If actions and words
were contradictory, I'd believe neither and would start searching for the
truth.

				Steve
1076.3Digging a little deeper..TALLIS::MACKENZIEGur trom leam mo cheumMon Sep 24 1990 18:1422
    I'd generally agree with .1 but I'd like to expand it a little. If
    actions and words don't correspond then there is definitely a problem
    that requires investigation. Many times it is deceit, intentionally
    implemented. But it could be that a person changes their mind, e.g. I
    say to you I don't like lobster, but you catch (keeping it nautical) me
    in a restaurant eating lobster. I could have just decided to try it. A
    coincidence, but certainly possible. 
    
    But I would think that more than one related instance of saying one
    thing and doing another, especially when the words and actions are very
    clear favor the actions speaking loader than the words. This type of
    dishonest individual can usually be flushed out to admit the truth, and
    I would say its usually the actions. I would make an analogy to our
    body language which tells the truth far more often than we do. Not too
    many liars can defeat an experienced analyst with a lie detector.
    
    Adding to Steve's point, a person could be mentally confused or suffer
    from some anxiety problem that makes their words and actions
    unpredictable and disconnected. Hope this helps.
    
    							Spuds
    
1076.4Who's being lied to?AKO569::JOYGet a life!Tue Sep 25 1990 10:338
    To add a thought to my own question...perhaps what is different is who
    the person is lying to in the two scenarios (whether intentionally or
    not). In the first scenario (saying good things, doing bad), they may be 
    lying to you ...in the second scenario (saying bad things, doing
    good), they may be lying to themselves.
    
    Debbie
    
1076.5ARRODS::CARTERTreat me like I'm a bad girl...Tue Sep 25 1990 11:0437
>in the second scenario (saying bad things, doing
>    good), they may be lying to themselves.
 
Yup, and they are still lying to you AS WELL.

I have more than once been in a realtionship where the actions suggested that
the other person really liked me but the words said things like "I'm not
ready for commitment" "I like you, but I don't love you" or something similar.

Now its very easy when you want that person's actions to be the truth that
you start telling yourself "He's lying to himself"... in my experience he
isn't... and when it comes to the crunch the words will be used in self-defence.

To give a prime example:

My friend was going out with a girl for 3 years, he told me it was only a
temporary thing "She isn't the one for me".  He apparently told her that.
According to him he had made it abundantly clear that they would never get
married.  But... he bought a house with her, they lived as a married couple,
he was attentive, loving etc.  I kept saying to him... you are being cruel
if you know you don't want to marry her split up now...'cos the way it looks
to her it looks like you are committed even if your mouth says your not. (also,
the actions she didn't know about said he wasn't... I knew he was 2/3 timing 
her)

He couldn't understand this.  As far as he was concerned he'd made it perfectly
clear by what he SAID that his actions were just for "show".

Guess what? When they split up he said "I told you..." and she said "But...
whatabout the house, car, flowers, loving cards, etc etc"


What it boils down to is as said before, if the two don't match then theres a
problem somewhere that needs sorted out.


Xtine
1076.6Body Language ~~ Actions ? Similar ??AHIKER::EARLYBob Early Dtn 264-6252 T&N EIC EngineeringTue Sep 25 1990 14:0860
re: .0

    There is a very nice  little  paperback  (was?)  in  the bookstores,
    called "<something> Body Language".

    The books  premise is based on your question:  How much can we trust
    what we see, compared to what we hear ? 
    
    Why do we trust some strangers, and suspect some of our friends ?
    
    The book, in essence,  has  this to say  (very  briefly):    Peoples
    actions TEND to validate what they say.  Peoples body language tends
    to validate (or contradict) what they say.
    
    HOWEVER:  The books goes on  to say, that you really can't trust the
    body language, because a persons culture and habit may overcome the
    intent of their words. And many examples of this are given.
    
    Knowledge  of  the  individual  person  is  crucial  to  determining
    whether or not their actions are truly indicative of  what  is  being
    said, and in what context.  
    
    Personally,  I use  the  recommendations  when  I  want  to  attract
    someone, and reverse it  when  I want to discourage someone. 
    (Awright youse guys ..  no comments ...  and I know you know who you
    are !!).
    
    Many  (if  not all) of  us  have  heard  many  others  in  Religion,
    Government,  Politics,  Education called hypocrites, liars,  cheats,
    etc  ...    for what they say  (Peace,  Love,  Caring,  Forgiveness,
    Honesty, Integrity) are belied by their actions (War,  Hate  for the
    unAnnointed, Cheating, Womanizing,  Exploitation  of  Congressional
    Pages, Using positions for personal gains , etc).
    
    Currently (if you follow current news), there  is  a  very big issue
    between the Korean Store owners and the Black  communities they tend
    to serve.  Basically (from what I understand) is  that  the  Koreans
    are accused being racist, and they say they are not !!
    
    The problem (if 20/20 or Prime Time) is to be  believed, is that the
    Korean culture says that:

    - Do not smile at strangers, as it is impolite, and  may  make  them
       think you are being too forward toward them (sexual implied).
    
    -  Do  not  touch  strangers,  as  it  may  offend them as being  to
       familiar.  (so owners put  the  change  on the counter, an not in
       hand).
    
    - Work 90 - 120 hours per week to be  successful.
    
    -  Share    ones  wealth  with  friends,  so  they  too  may  become
       independent businessmen.
    
    I suspect the  Chinese  learned this cooperation years ago, and even
    as we speak, some Black Business Communities are adopting this "self
    help" philosophy.
    
    
    
1076.7DUGGAN::MAHONEYWed Sep 26 1990 10:207
    IMO...
    Both, actions and-or words should be clear enough.
    If ONE of them is negative... there you go, there is the MESSAGE!
    the other does not have to match.
    
    If ONE of them does not work... get away... don't wait to be hurt or
    worse, used up... the message is there.