Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Hi,
    
    I am really not an expert in these matters having no personal
    experience of this type, but I would guess that your soon to be
    ex-husband is reacting to the situation at present rather than the
    long-term, and if I were you then for your daughters sake I would try
    and understand that.
    
    This bit about cutting all ties, moving to the other side of the earth!
    etc, tends to suggest he is having problems handling the situation of
    your divorce, and quite possibly of facing up to the lonliness he
    himself has to confront.
    
    But maybe the risk as in the ending of any relationship is that the
    hurt of the break up causes more scares than the issues that caused the
    break up and those scares last far longer.
    
    For your daughter, well I can trade on the experience of friends to say
    that when one parent deserts a child, that affects the child in his/her 
    pattern of growing up far more than it affect the parent in his/her
    state of maturity.
    
    Your daughter is your soon-to-be ex-husbands flesh and blood and as
    time passes I am sure he will begin to miss her and want to see her
    again, in addition to which I can guarantee at some stage when all has
    passed he will feel guilty about deserting her, problem will be than
    your daughter is far less likely to forgive him or want him back again.
    
    I have known very many friends, mainly girls, whose fathers having
    deserted them have tried to re-enter their lives at a latter stage,
    often after the person concerned has passed through the pain of
    growing up without their assistance, and more than often preceeded by a
    barrage of gifts and gestures, only to have them all thrown back at
    them.
    
    I don't really feel able to tell you what the solution is, except that
    its your daughter you really must think of, seems damm silly to make
    this sort of permanent "I never want to see her again" decision in the
    heat of the moment, why not suggest that you don't even discuss or at
    least finalise the subject of "access" until at least a year after the
    seperation.
    
    Hope this helps
    
    Guy.
    subject of "access" until  
    
    

       I have a daughter from a previous marriage and the first couple
       of things that come to mind are;

       - How involved was he with her before the divorce process was
         started?  Was there a lot of play time, did he ferry her to
         activities, etc?  If he was really involved, it will be harder
         then he thinks, for him to give her up.  It could be just his
         hurt and anger talking, which is something YOU will not be able
         to discuss with him! 

       - Is it possible, that he may feel that the mother daughter bond
         would be so strong that he would be "left out" or "a fifth
         wheel" as the estranged father? 

       - How much tension is there between you and him?  I used to have
         a neighbor with two teen age daughters.  When her ex came to
         pick up or drop off the girls, she would go next door before he
         got there.  They couldn't stand to be in the same room with
         each other, and they had been divorced for over 5 years!  It
         wasn't until my divorce process became a 19 month war, that I
         truly understood what had happened to them.  My daughter is 20
         and in college, (read, I don't need to coordinate with her
         mother to see or talk to her) so I don't have that problem
         seeing her.  My son, however is only 14, and that is a
         difference story.


       My 2 cents,
       Richard

    I can understand his point of view to some extent.  When I divorced
    I wanted to cut all ties with my Ex.  She had custody of our son
    and at first I felt it wuold have been better to make a complete
    break and leave him to her.  After she moved out taking our son
    with her, I was tied up in trying to settle all of the details of
    finding a place to live that I could afford, court, re arranging
    my finances, and all the other problems invovled when you suddenly
    have to pay a three member families bills on half the normal income.
    
    After I got things settled and started to arrange my life once again,
    I had time ot think about the dicision to leave him to her to raise
    and take care of without me being a part of that.  I started to
    miss him and finally called one day and asked if I could see him.
    It was arranged and we worked out visitation and such from there.
    
    It was just a matter of being able to stop and think after everything
    had fallen apart.  Something that may make a difference is getting
    counseling during the break-up, not just you but all three, including
    your daughter.  She's old enough to understand a lot more then you
    may give her credit for.  Having her see a cousnelor can help her
    understand what is going on.  If you can't get him involved with
    seeing a cousnelor for himself, get him involved with your daughters
    counselor.
    
    He may honestly believe that a complete break from you and her is
    best for both of you as well as himself.  I had a friend that felt
    that way.  Long before I got married.  He would pull out a picture
    of a baby girl and show it to me and tell me about his daughter
    that he never sees because "It's best" and he truly beleived he
    was doing the "right thing" by not seeing her at all.  That he was
    not worthy of her somehow and that by giving his ex wife papers
    granting his approval of her adoption by someone else someday, things
    would work out for the best.  You could see it in him whenever he
    talked of it that it tore him up, but that he really beleived what
    he was saying.  I tried several times to convince him otherwise,
    it never worked.  And although I've lost touch with him, I doubt
    that he has ever gone back to see her or try to establish contact
    with her.  Maybe though.
    
    Still, I think if someone who "knows about such things" had talked
    to him and told him that he was wrong, it would have made a big
    difference in his life and saved him a lot of misery.  
    
    Skip
    

    Well I will try writing this reply agian. I am in the heat of the D
    word and I have a shoe on the other foot. My soon to be X met a
    lowlifeform in Maine at a bluegrass fest that we attend every year.
    Sound like a C&W tune all ready. Two weeks later says sorry pal, I
    don't love you and takes my daughter out of state to this bozo palace
    in the the woods of paridice. And says' try to stop me from taking
    daughter and you will not see her.' As in underground! I did not know
    that she was going to this boyfriends place at the time, just know that
    the laws and the state do not favor the male as a parent. The middle of
    that week I get a phone call and she tells me where we are these days.
    And I drive 400 mile weekends to see my daughter. Yes, I am in court
    and praying for custody. 
    
    	Long and the short, talking to other men in the same game. Is that
    sometimes your forced to play the hand for you know the odds are
    agianst you. So you cut your losses, as they say in the business game,
    weither their are finicial or emotional. And we move on the to next.
    This is why I am so adiment about values and promises to each other
    before God and friends in Death till us part lines. This is where it
    seems that there should be something done that gives us alittle hope.
    Instead of you pay, and you loose fat reguadless. 
    	I want custody for this mother is moved agian to another mans home
    and is dragged my daughter agian with her. Shounds like a stable life.
    The GAL says this is fine, the mother is doing her constutional rights.
    GEEZE! 
    	What bothers me is that we have these children and becaues we (SO)
    cannot get along, the children suffer. There is major hurt to them and
    to us who see this hurt, and because we can throw away our disposible
    everythings, we can't seem to unload the hurt of the memories of the
    child and the connections with the X. When this man moves away he will
    creat this hole in your daughters life that can never be filled. It
    is like having a living death of a parent. I was a boy when my dad was
    killed in an auto accident on Chirstmas day. Wanna hurt every
    Chirstmas! 
    
    George

    
    Re .4 
    
    Hang in there George...
    
    -sj

    It seems pretty damn selfish that someone would want to cut all ties 
    to his/her kid just because they couldn't bear to have anything to
    do with their soon-to-be-former spouse.  
    
    On the other hand, I'm sure there is alot of anger and anguish going on
    so that the parties involved are not necessarily thinking clearly
    enough into the future.
    
    To .0, have the both of you gone to a neutral third party to discuss
    what you should do for the good of your child?  I sense (actually, I
    know :^)) there is alot of frustration from the lack of communication.
    It's kind of hard to talk when you feel that the other person doesn't
    appear to want to listen.
    
    B.
    

    .7 What happens when you cannot bring all interest to the table? This
    happend to me, when she took off.

    
    	Some good replies so far. I agree that the child will suffer,
    quite _unnecessarily_, if this father takes such a careless action.
    Simply put, there is nothing in the world that can wholly put back
    what this man is taking away from his daughter - as seen from her
    eyes and interpreted by her emotionally. 
    
    	No matter how well explained, she'll always feel - somewhere
    way deep down there where it counts - that it was something about
    *her*, personally, that "made her daddy leave". Although this
    can be resolved via therapy, support groups and her own self help
    efforts later in life, this child will go through hell (IMHO) wrestling
    with the emotional conflict resulting from her father's abandonment.

    	Leaving someone for good carries with it a strong personal message 
    which is "read between the lines" of that action. What's really
    too bad here is that it sounds like that message is the truth :'(
    Perhaps someone should throw that idea in *his* face, and see if
    he can come to some level of comprehension of exactly what he's
    planning on doing.
    
    	Joe

    For invaluable information pertaining to both legal and human aspects
    of divorce and separation see two terrific notes files:
    
    type add entry:  dloact::blended_families
                     csc32::non_custodial_parents
    
    I'm sure you will appreciate the learning experiences of others
    who have traveled this route.
    
    Good Luck and remenber a positive attitude can make the difference
    

    This is a very painful subject for me.  I did not respond in the
    parenting note because the pain was to raw.  Now I feel I must share.
    
    My fist husband and I split 8 years ago when Amy was a baby.  We
    did the alternate weekends and 2 week ordeal for about 2 years.
    When I remarried when she was 3 and moved from Arkansas to Canada
    after a long battle it was determined by the courts and attorneys
    that she would spend June 15 to Aug 15 with him every year.  I could
    speak with her twice a week at specified times and he could speak
    with her the same specified times when she was with me.  We moved
    in October and he did not contact her until May when it was time
    to arrange the logistics of the trip.  
    
    This was an emotionally exhausting summer for me.  My co-workers
    could see the rollercoaster I was on.  Saturdays and Sunday mornings
    I would be up because I would speak with Amy at noon on Sunday.
    Then by Monday I was in a blue funk until Wednesday when I could
    speak with her again. I COULD NOT call at any other time, and he
    would not let her call me.
    
    I picked her up on August 15, 1986 and she has not heard boo from
    him since.  This breaks her heart.  His reason is that when he had
    her she would be depressed for an hour or two after speaking with
    me, and did not want to put her through that by calling her.  How
    selfish of him.  It was just an excuse for his abandonning her.
    He has since consented to Ron adopting her by not bothering to respond
    to the papers, other than to call and harrass me.
    
    She is getting over it.  She speaks of him seldom.  However, there
    is the odd time when she will ask why he did not love her.  I can't
    answer this.  I just tell her that the Daddy she lives with, which
    has been a part of her life since she was a tiny baby loves her
    more than anyone else ever could.  I hope this is enough.  She is
    only 8, what will her questions be when she is a teenager.
    
    We were in Arkanas this summer.  She knew he lived near my parents,
    she never asked to see him.  When she was asked if she would like
    to call, she said no-she didn't need him.
    
    Kim

    I don't have time to read all the replies, but I think that .3 has
    a good point. That after the dust has settled and the routine has
    gotten a little old, if he's at all a caring person, he will try to
    re-establish some sort of relationship with his daughter.
    
    A little oversimplified, but seems like a strong possibility.....
    
    ....Bob

    RE .10--Neither of these entries is on file anymore (I just this
    minute tried both of them).  Does anyone know what new node these
    reside on?
    
    Thanks.
    

I just had no trouble opening either one.  Check that your network node
database is correct and current.

		Steve

    Re: .13 - Both of those are still located at the node specified.  I
    added and accessed non_custodial parents yesterday, and I just tried
    blended_families and it was added to my notebook.  What message did you
    get when you tried to add them?  I suggest you try again.
    
    Sue   

    I have not been able to add blend families. Or should I say be able to
    open it.

    Re: .16
    
    The conference is DLOACT::BLENDED_FAMILIES.  Note that it's DEE-ELL-OH,
    not DEE-ELL-ZERO.  If you tried before and got the name wrong,
    type:
    		DELETE ENTRY BLENDED_FAMILIES
    
    (or whatever you called it) and then press the KP7 key ("7" key on the
    numeric keypad on the right) or the SELECT key, and the conference
    will be added to your notebook.  (If you didn't try it before, just
    press KP7 or SELECT now.
    
    				Steve