Conference quark::human_relations-v1

>    Ann's doctor wanted to put her into a residential unit for three
>    months - Steve and Ann went to see it together, but it was so grim 
>    that they walked straight out again.
    
I think the doctor has the right idea!  Try another residential unit.

    
    Good point.
    Most National health facilities here tend to be run down beyond
    your worst nightmares though, but I agree they haven't looked around
    much.
    
    Also, Ann refuses to sign herself in. Period.
    
    However, if Steve could get her to do so, do you feel that a centre
    near her family or a centre near where she is now would be better?
    There's a 500 mile difference.
                                                 
    'gail
    

    re:.2
    
    Well, it depends how close she is to her family, and how they react
    to her.  It doesn't sound like the family is interested in Ann,
    but Ann being close to her family might make _Ann_ feel better.
    Then again, if Ann doesn't care, it doesn't matter where she is.
    
    She sounds like she's coming apart quickly.  Have her find another
    facility, and/or another doctor.  Maybe a psychiatrist? (for her
    suicidal thoughts).  She needs counseling, and maybe a counselor
    can suggest where to go for help, referrals, etc...
    
    Your friend should be at the end of his rope in trying to deal with
    this alone.  You may suggest getting her family more involved to
    take the majority of the burden off of Steve, even if it is
    expressed by the family as more communication or concern and not
    direct action.
    
    Tell him to act quickly.
    
    
    /Greg

    Counseling is the first idem On my list of suggestions.
     (for your friend about what he can do to help, what he can expect)
      and I would suggest that it be with the doctor involved with her
      care. With or without her consent he can go and express a desire
      to help and ask for suggestions around what he already knows. He
      should explain that he is concerned as a friend and is emotionaly
      involved but that she has not told him everything. 
    
    A sourse of information and training about crisis and suicide is
    the local hot line in the nearest large city. Most large citys
    have a crisis/suicie line to calls. Tell them you want to know
    how to help a friend. This can be a source of support and 
    the beginning of new friendships for both people involved
    
    Calling the family and asking about thier relationship would not
    be out of line (in my opinion)in this situation as they may know 
    more about a root problem that has not been shared with the lady 
    involved.Some genetic deseases cause short term memory loss and 
    severe depression.
     
    Their are support groups and keep looking till you find what works
    for both of them. It may be that he wants out of the relationship.
    I think he needs to know that its O.K to feel that way. I think that
    guiding her to diebetic support groups and food oriented support
    groups (like overeaters annonoumus) would be in her best interests.
    
    Counseling and crisis intervention is most important. The other ideas
    should be looked at as long term therapy stuff.  He does desearve a 
    break and he needs to take care of himself first. He cant give someone
    he cares for first class help if he lets himself deteriorate or
    become unhealty(mind and body).  Keep in mind that people can
    create thier own illness and he needs to realise he cannot be
    the only person that she relies on. She will need more that just his
    help, she will need to widen her view and be friendly to more
    people. 
    
    In the long term it might be that she needs a place to be needed.
    Volunteer work in a limited capacity can help bring up self-esteem.
    The Dr. should be consulted about this. It is possible that learning
    how to work on the crisis phone line could be a healing and growing
    experiance or holding babies in the termanally ill section of the 
    hospital. Some thing will touch her life and get her to see that
    thier is value in her life.
    
    Janet
     
    

    There are also support groups for people who are dying or are 
    terminally ill.  Overall, I think your suggestion of both him and
    her seeking counseling is a wise move.  From there the information
    on the various support groups and aids available for her situation
    can manifest and he can work out the answers he needs to take care
    of the situation.  The one that would most worry me is his feelings
    of guilt.  Especially if things should happen with her.  She seems
    to be using the threat of or actual attempts at suicide as a means
    of controlling the relationship, by playing on his guilt.  He is
    going ot have to realize that he can not be held responsible for
    all of her actions.... regardless of how he feels about her. 
    
    Skip

    I agree with Mike.  Not so long ago, I was in a similar situation.
    For a while, I tried to help.

    Then, eventually, I wised up.  It became clear that X's problems
    were going to be there no matter what, because X didn't WANT to
    change or do anything about them.  In the meantime, X's problems
    - and therefore X - were getting lots of attention from me in the 
    form of "help".  Continuing the crisis was, for X, a convenient
    way to control others, especially those like me who took the suicide
    threats seriously.  In retrospect, I think my "helping" just fueled
    the crisis, if anything.

    Dealing with X took an unreasonable amount of my energy, which
    would have been much better invested other places, and took a real 
    toll on my emotional state.  X is still alive today, and, from what 
    I hear, is as self-destructive as ever.  The difference in *my* life, 
    on the other hand, is like night and day.

    Steve should leave.  Period.  He cannot help Ann; the only person
    he can help is Steve.

    Telling someone to take control of their own life instead of letting
    a self-destructive person control it is not cold-hearted.  If Ann is
    doing all this to herself, what's she going to do to Steve?

	Sharon

    I agree. Try another residential unit. Some are not grim.
    I don't know if Ann is in the Northeast or not, but Brookside
    Hospital in Nashua, NH, is one of the best places in the
    country. Also, general hospitals in most cities have money
    set aside for people who have no insurance. I'm sure if Steve
    takes her to an emergency room and she admits she's suicidal
    they will admit her.
    
    Steve should also seek counseling for himself. I would say he
    needs it almost as much as she does for a situation this
    drastic.
    
    Best of luck to him.
    
    Eileen

    Point of clarification (I didn't know, either)  'gail,
    Steve and Ann are in the UK.
    
    					andrew

    The woman is trying to kill herself, and she refuses help and good
    advice.  At this point, your friend should drop a dime to her parents
    and get himself out of the situation. Absorbing her problem will only
    eat his guts out.
    
    imho,
    marge
    
    

    
    Thanks people.
    
    I heard from Steve this morning - he is trying to find a counsellor
    with some urgency.
    
    I've forwarded all your replies so far to him - any further comment
    is welcome and will be forwarded also.
    
    'gail
    

    
    In his search for counsellors he might try contacting a company in
    Crawley called Novo:Nordisk for advice, counsellor listings etc.
    
    I used to work for Novo - they are a medical company who specialise in
    Diabetes and Insulins.  I have a phone number which I will mail you.
    
    Chris   :-)
    

    
    
    As harsh as it seems I would also advise getting out of the
    relationship.  Clearly this woman does not care about herself.
    He will not be able to change that.  A person can not love another
    person if they do not love themselves first.  
    
    He obviously is a very wonderful person for wanting and trying
    to help her, but he is going to go down with her if he continues
    to stay in the picture.  
    
    Many of us have gone through similar situations.  She seems hellbent
    on destroying herself, and it seems he is willing to let her destroy
    him (although he may not know or see it).  Her using guilt on him
    to control him shows a lack of concern for him especially if she
    is holding the threat of taking her life over his head.  
    
    
    In this case, he must decide to put his life before hers.  Life is
    what you make it.  He has the power to choose to stay and continue
    to suffer, or he can leave and start living his life.  
    
    

    No time to read all the replies, but........
    
    I tend to agree with .5.......which to many of you may seem
    cruel. She will never get better if she doesn't seek help HERSELF.
    And from what I see, she doesn't.........and if she doesn't want help
    he should separate himself before he gets dragged down with her.
    
    I know, easier said than done, but I still feel that way.
    
    ....Bob