Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    	When I run into silence it is usually me who makes the worse of it. 
    I imagine the worse and always shocked to find out later that I gave
    the silent person much to much imagination.  The reasons are usually
    boring and pointless1 instead of the super intricate/complicated
    details my imagination gives to the silence.  Then is when I think I
    am my own worse enemy.
    
    					George

    	Ah but sometimes there is validity to assuming the worse....
    
    I ended up divorced because I respected my wifes silence.  She would
    at times come home, go into the bedroom sit in the middle of the
    bed and not make a sound.  I would ask if she were okay, she would
    say yes.  I would say okay and leave the room to take care of our
    son.  This behavior started after 3 years of marriage to her...
    before this whenever anything upset her she would talk to me about
    it and I would try to offer a solution to the problem she was talking
    about.
    
    When we decided to separate... (her idea) I became an emotional
    wreck and started seeing a psychologist who convinced her to come
    in with me.  When he started probing the problems, it seemed that
    she decided I no longer cared about her because I didn't try to
    find out why she was so silent when she would come home. I explained
    that it was because I asked her if she was all right and she would
    reply yes... her remarks were to the effect of "Yes but I wasn't
    and I wanted you to ask me more about it."  We got back together...
    for three months.  She started repeating the sequence... come home
    go in the room sit in the middle of the bed ... silence.
    
    "Is everything okay?"
    
    "Yes!"
    
    "Are you sure everything is okay,  seems something is bothering
    you..."
    
    "I'm FINE... NOTHING is bothering me... LEAVE ME ALON!"
    
    "Okay...."
    
    The second separation was a lot easier as I'd decided she either
    didn't know what she wanted.... or was just plain crazy.
    I still have determined which.
    
    Skip

    Good communication is the foundation to a good marriage/or friendship.
    
    Just my two cents.
    
    
    Lynne

    Communication is *the* key.
    
    And there's *comfortable* silence, and *uncomfortable* silence.....
    one is great, the other is disastrous...
    
    -Jody
    

    This is a very good topic for me.  I can see it is creating a stir
    inside me because I'm getting uncomfortable.  All the more reason to
    reply.
    
    I don't like silence between two people.  I am not involved in a
    serious relationship, so most of the time, anyone I am with gets an
    ear full.  I'd like to change this.  It will be a process, that's for
    sure.
    
    I do not like silence when it means anger.  That's the worst. I'd much
    rather have someone tell me that they are angry rather than ignore me. 
    My parents used to do that.
    
    If someone I've been talking to is silent after while, I try and find
    out what they are thinking or if something is bothering them.  Then if
    they say nothing, I feel that we don't have a lot to say and should go
    our separate ways.  It's all or nothing to me.  I hope by reading
    this topic I can possibly learn how to change this.
    
    Cathy

    
    During an argument or conflict...
    I'll use some silence while I contemplate what I want to express
    and how I want to express it. Though it may be uncomfortable
    I find it's better than saying things I'll regret later.
    
    								Hank

Silence also can result when you find yourself editing your words so as
to avoid a confrontation, and find you have nothing that you can say.   It's
not a stage that's easily recognizable.

My view is that if there is a lot of silence in a relationship, for any
reason, then there are problems and it would be well advised to break that
silence and determine the cause(s).  Some people, like Skip's ex-wife (as
well as others I have known) would seem to believe in ESP, or at least
putting the burden on their partner to dig hard enough to find out what they
REALLY are feeling, despite what they are saying.  This almost always leads
to frustration and distance.

I learned the hard way that I should not take what my partner says about
her feelings at face value, and must look for signs that I'm only hearing
a "censored" version of her thoughts.

					Steve

    This comment is not aimed at Skip or anyone specific...
    
    I would hardly call questions like:
    
    "Are you ok?"
    "Are you sure you are ok?"
    "Are you really sure you are ok?"
    
    trying hard at communication.  
    
    
    Some alternatives would be:
    
    "Would you like to have a lollipop?"
    "I just bought a new set of gulf clubs.  Ain't it nice?"
    "I bought a set of model airplane.  Would you care to join me putting
    it up."
    
    I think you get the idea.
    
    Eugene
                             

    Yeah, I agree but... when you have someone who walks into the house,
    walks to the bed room without saying a word 
    sits down cross legged in the middle of the bed,
    Doesn't say a word or make a move to do anything else,
    Somehow your questions seem a little irrelevant to the situation
    at hand.
    
    I don't take offense to what you said and I'm sure you that they
    will work in the right situation.
    
    But, my particular situation wasn't the right one... and I could
    just see her flying off the bed in a bodyslam against the wall 
    asking me if I were out of my mind if I tried to use those lines
    on her.  Then proceding to either mop the floor up with me or 
    calling the guys in the white coats to take me away.
    
    Seriously, there are times when something like that will work, but
    not always... you have to be sure of the person you are using such
    lines on and how/if there sense of humor will kick in once you say
    them.  In my particular case... I doubt it would.  And I'm sure
    there are other cases were they would get no more then a "Leave
    Me ALONE!" comment which would again be followed by silence.  
    
    In her particular case (my ex's) she would have simply said 
    "No" and ended the conversation.
    
    Skip

>    But, my particular situation wasn't the right one... and I could
>    just see her flying off the bed in a bodyslam against the wall 
>    asking me if I were out of my mind...
    
    Of course, you can say yes you are out of your mind and you need her
    help.  She will then say that she doesn't believe you, and you return
    with "I swear it is true.  I screwed up something".  She will then say 
    "Leave me alone."  You scream "Yea, I helped you out when you needed.  I
    thought relation ship means helping each other out", and blah blah
    blah.  On and on, I can write a whole play out of it.  Of course, this
    kind of engineering solution will never work...
    
    Eugene

    RE: .0

    The silence that I am really working hard on, is the silence of not
    getting a phone call for several days (or a mail message for even a
    full day)... and feeling of insecurities creeping in...

    The silence after a fight, when all I want to do is talk about it, and
    all they want to do is have a ton of space around them, which usually
    makes me feel even worse... and the feeling of insecurities creeping
    in...

    The silence of driving together, or being together in the same house is
    often the best silence, but the silence of the above two paragraphs is 
    what I think Hugh Prather was searching about...

	For me, detaching from another's silence can be one of the most 
    difficult things to do and it can drive me crazy if I let it.
    
    	I suspect that part of the difficulty I have with it, is that this 
    was once done to me as a child. As an adult, I'm particularly sensitive 
    to the emotional inconsistancy of another person - emotions that seem 
    to have no co-relation to anything I'm aware of. I can remember this 
    happening in my family of origin; for reasons that were entirely beyond 
    me, the emotional climate would suddenly take this major turn, becoming
    very thick, tight, silent and cold. As a youngster I'd often hope that a 
    neighbor - anyone - would *please* drop by, because if someone did, the 
    situation would always do this 180 degree (coverup) turn and then I'd
    feel "off the hook", so to speak...
    
    	My reactive response to silence now is to try to figure out "what's
    wrong", of course, and then desparately try to fix it or make it go
    away. This is a really frustrating approach to dealing with it,
    because (of course) you only get back silence to your inquirys and 
    you cant necessarily "fix" someone else's feelings anyway! Amidst this 
    frustration, a feeling arises that this is being done *to* me, because of 
    something I did, that I'm not aware of...as some sort of punishment
    - and I end up speculating all kinds of things and reasons which are 
    never true - that's the crazy part!
       
	Only lately, I've come to an understanding that this may just be a
    particular reactive behavior someone has over their own stuff and not some 
    personal reprimand against me - which really does help. My understanding 
    that you cant necessarily fix or change someone's feelings, even if you do 
    know what they are, allows me new choices. I instead can choose to give
    an emotionally unconditional comfort - like a long hug and then some
    space - but without going away completely. 

    	Every time I handle things in this way, instead of reactively
    charging into the situation for an answer or just abandoning it all
    out of frustration, things have a way of getting back on keel in what 
    seems like "no time at all" :')
    
    	I'm saddened to hear your story Skip. I hope this reply helps
    you out Gale, for the times when all you "want to do is talk about it".
    
	Joe
     

Silence can be baffling because you may not know what the problem is.  If you
are courageous enough to risk confronting the person you can sometimes find out
the problem so that you both understand it and the cause.  But the confrontation
can be putting everything at risk because you aren't certain of the other
person's mood.

Once the problems are understood, then silence can be good as it gives you time
to cool off and reflect on how the problem might have been prevented.

Rich

    I agree with both of the two previous comments... Joe, you have
    hit the nail on the head in regards to my own history... as well
    as the lessons that were learned long after.  Far to late to make
    a difference now, but I've at least learned.  It still gets difficult
    when you (I) am faced with the type of silence my ex would bring
    home with her... but I've learned ways to deal with that type of
    silence that make things much easier in a relationship now.  
    
    As to the silence being questioned, in the base note and -3... 
    I would like to ask some questions about the situation you are 
    refering too because you seem to be hinting at something....
    
    Is this silence you refer to... after having had a date with someone
    you are interested in? If so is it a case of him saying he would
    call or write soon and failed to do so?  
    
    Or is this a sudden silence from some friend that you may feel you've
    insulted in some way?  (I've just had a recent experience with that
    one... turned out that they got so busy with things that they forgot
    that they hadn't written a reply to my last letter and from what
    I gather, they may have thought I had been the one in silence for
    so long... in other words it turned out to be a case of sever
    misunderstanding).
    
    In either case, if you are in serious doubt... maybe you should
    contact the person you refer to and ask them straight out what the
    problem is.  Or drop them a line stating that you are worried about
    them because they havn't "talked" for so long and would appreciate
    it if they would contact you "just to let me know everything is
    okay."
    
    Or even send them one of the greeting cards that start out with
    the line "haven't heard from you for a while"  and take a hi-lighter
    and hi light "haven't heard and  while"  Then simply say you miss
    not talking with them.  
    
    These are only a few suggestions... not knowing the circumstances
    preceeding the silence it's hard to give cheep advice on how to
    handle it  or figure out what the cause might actually be.  
    
    Without all the info relating to what you are describing, it's hard
    to give any accurate advice/suggestions/solutions about the problem.
    
    Skip

    Re: .16

    Skip,

    I think the silence Hugh Prather was describing (and the ones I tend to
    come across), is insecure silence.  

    For example:

    I have dated a guy (pick a name out of the hat), for lets say, 3 weeks
    now. For three weeks, we have seen each other for maybe 3 or 4 times in
    each week. Last time I saw him was say, on a Saturday.  Its now
    Tuesday, and I have not hear from him.  So, it has been 3 days of
    silence. 

    Or another example:

    I have dated some guy now for say - 4 months. We just had our first
    big-knock-them-down-drag-them-out type verbal fight. I have an Irish
    temper (from the Irish in me), that says once I blow up, and get
    everything out on the table, I'm okay, and the world is okay. He has a
    temper that once he blows up, he just wants to sit and stew on the
    blowing up for a week or so, then everything is supposed to be okay.
    So, two weeks of silence.

    Do either of those examples help out?

    
    Perhaps you should purge the Irish temper, or find a guy who can abide
    it...
    
    Lots of men don't care for eruptions such as that and will be inclined 
    to put distance between themselves and such disturbances.

    re:17
    
    The two examples you have given are both of men who have not called
    you back for a period of time after you have last seen them. The second
    one, however, seems to be a seperation after an argument. Different
    people handle anger quite differently; the fact that he takes so long
    to recover might mean that maybe you got all your stuff out on the
    table, but perhaps he had some lingering resentment that he didn't get
    out. The fact that you two had this fight in the first place seems to
    indicate that tensions had been brewing for quite a while that weren't
    communicated to each other as they were building up; but only after
    they reached a crisis stage. Maybe if the communication along the way
    is better, the fights will be unnecessary.
    
    Why don't you break these silences by calling these men up, and ask
    them how they are feeling? You will at least know, one way or another,
    and waiting to find out bad news won't make it any better. Perhaps you
    can do something about bad feelings if you two can talk about them.
    
    -roger
    

    
    ......and when is silence acquiescence ?
    
    o ...when is silence golden ? 
    

    I am learning a great deal from the replies in this note.  What I can
    sense from all of this and within myself is that if someone is silent,
    it is because of *them*, not me.  I may have done something to hurt
    them or make them angry but if they choose to sit with those feelings
    instead of telling me, then it will be their problem and not mine.  If
    there is someone in my life that has hurt me or made me angry, I need
    to tell them this (especially if they are close to me).  If I want
    people to treat me nicely, I have to tell them when they haven't. 
    Otherwise, they will repeat the behavior assuming that I don't mind.
    And if I do something unkind or unfeeling, I would hope that I would be
    told (but in a loving way).  That's why trust is so important in
    relationships.  I used to feel that if someone yelled at you for
    something, the relationships was over (or in the case of a parent, they
    didn't love me).  I don't feel that way anymore. 
    
    Be good to yourself: "Tell someone if they've hurt you.  Keeping it
    inside makes it grow".
    
    Just my thoughts (again).
    
    Cathy  

Re: .21 by CARTUN::TASSONE,

>    I may have done something to hurt them or make them angry but
>    if they choose to sit with those feelings instead of telling
>    me, then it will be their problem and not mine.

Actually, it's their **solution**. If you want to maintain the
relationship but cannot abide the silence, then it's **your**
problem. 

In many relationships, there is a dominant partner and a submissive
one. The dominant partner tends to go silent (first, because he/she
has no overwhelming need for the other's support and second, because
he/she knows the other does have that need). The submissive one then
gets uptight. If she is really worried, she should wait a while (she
knows how long - a few hours to a few days) and try to break the
silence. If she really hates the silence treatment, she should 
consider ending the relationship - it's bound to recur again and 
again.

-- Ron

An addition to .21's comments on silence and anger.  If the other person is not
accustomed to anger/fighting, or if they (feel they) said something they are now
embarrassed about, they may be silent because they're ashamed of what happened,
or in fear that you're still angry with them....

BTW, .0 also mentioned silence as a measure of comfort and confidence.  While
it's important to communicate anger rather than keeping silent about it (until
it explodes, often for other trivial and unrelated reasons), it's equally 
important to communicate when you're happy, too.  Otherwise it's all to easy to
interpret a frequent silence-from-comfort as silence-from-indifference - 
especially if someone's only likely to communicate when upset or angry. :-}

		Helen

    Re.23
    
    >>..if they..said something that they are now embarrassed about, they
    >> may be silent becuase they're ashamed of what happened..
    
    
    Aha ! Especially if they said those things in a gleeful passionate 
    manner - believing they were expressing absolute facts.. and then
    one day it becomes obvious that their "facts" are actually are not facts. 
    Their reaction ?--> Silence/reticence.
    
    Then it becomes ----->
    
    Re.23 >>..easy to interpret a frequent silence-from-comfort as
          >> silence-from-indifference ..                
    

.3 mentioned something like asking her what's wrong, and trying to help her
find a solution to her problems.

There's a book that says this, and I find it to be true, myself:

A woman does not want a man to help her find a solution to her
problem (at least not right away).  She wants him to *sympathize*
with her, first.  Many times she already knows what she wants to
do to solve it -- she just wants someone to understand it and
offer moral support.

If you start off by offering a solution, you're likely to be
bewildered by her angry response.  It's not a practical solution
we really want -- it's empathy or understanding.

Paula,
A Woman Who Knows

Actually, this is something I wasn't consciously aware of until
my brother told me about it, but I can see it's definitely true
in my case.

    After reading through all of this again... including my own responses
    and suggestions of others, I think it's clear that the following
    pertains...
    
    When a partner is silent you have to determine if you should respect
    the silence or question it.
    
    You have to figure out how long you should respect the silence (I
    do know of times when I was silent simply because I needed to work
    through some inner conflict on my own without anyone elses help.
    Not often but it has happened and I've seen it in others as well.
    Once the conflict is resloved I'm okay and ready to open up again.)
    
    If you question it, you have to figure out how best to do it.  How
    to work within the constraints of your relationship with the person.
    You can't get to personal if you've only known them a short time.
    
    Ultimatley it breaks down that silence in it's self is a form of
    communication... I am silent... therefore...
    
    I am upset
    I am happy
    I am angry
    I am worried
    I am uncertain 
    
    What ever.  The only way to find out causes, and decide if there
    is a solution or if the person needs empathy or whatever.... it
    to ask and hope that they are realistic enough to realize that 
    silence is something that is easy to misunderstand.  The saying
    that "Silence is Golden" is a rule used for the upbringing of children
    from the Victorian age and is no longer a valid commodity when dealing
    with people today.  The world has changed.  Oh there is a need for
    a respect of silence... there are times when you are with someone
    when silence can be a part of romance... but in the end all silence
    is questionable and without communication verbally or by recognized
    signals... you can't know anything or assume anything without running
    the risk of making a mistake in your assumptions.
    
    Skip