Conference quark::human_relations-v1

Just wanted to let you know I feel for you.  It sounds like a tough situation,
and I wish you luck.  I know it can be pretty heart-rending to be away from
your kids.  I'm sorry I don't have any words of wisdom regarding your situation,
I just wanted to offer a sympathetic electronic ear.  It sounds like you've
already done a lot of the right things, and have come a long way.  
Hang in there, and good luck.

Paula

    Re.0
    
    >> I was subjected to 17 yrs of hatred by an abusive mother..
    
    
                Followed by..
    
    >> I truly hate this woman.. >> ( Referring to your mom ?)
    
     Do you believe in "measure for measure" ? I don't ! 
    According to our anglican bishops we are not supposed to hate in return.
    One highly recommended action you can take is the initiation of 
    reconciliation.  
    Confront your mom when she's not drunk and begin some kind of communications
    with her. It might not work instantly for sure, but you can at least
    start from somewhere.
     
    >Things that used to really anger me are of no significance as they should.
    
    This sounds like a giant step towards rejuvenation. 
    Please keep it UP !

    Re:0
    
    Sounds like you are in a tough situation.  Regardless if your mother
    has a serious drinking problem, she is your mother, and will always be. 
    Try to help her, as in try to help her realize she *has* a drinking
    problem and it could mean her life if she continues. Show her you care
    and once she does realize she has a problem, she should go to a support
    group like Alcoholics Anonymous or to a rehabilitation center to dry
    out. It will be worth it in the long run, and maybe you can build the
    relationship you always wanted with her once she is cured.
    
    Best of luck
    
    Lynne

    
    	Hello, .0-
    
    	>My current difficulty is in providing her with the space she needs.

    	Oh God, that *is* a difficult one. It's difficult for me sometimes
    and I can sure identify. It's one of those things that can take "every
    ounce" of what you have to get through. I'm sure you will get through
    this one too. What works for me is making a decision that this is
    something I want to give, rather than seeing it as something I "have"
    to do. 
    
    	>She doesn't want a divorce
    or to sell the house and she says she wants our relationship to work.
    
    	Well, that sounds positive! Wanting a relationship to work is
    like a _requirement_ to having one that does. I guess it depends on,
    as a lot of things do, how badly you want it. I think you really
    do want it, because of all the hard work that I see you've done so far!
    That she does too makes it simply a matter of working on things,
    both together and apart.
    
    	>I feel
    that I owe her whatever it takes if she feels she can recover...
    
    	Maybe the sense of debt you have is connected with some guilt
    you're feeling. Try to talk about it if you think it's there, so
    you can eventually replace the feeling of "you owe her this" with 
    "I want to give you this". (The space to let her do some of the "hard
    work" too)
    
    	Yes, writing, talking about it; letting people know how you
    feel is "part of the cure". Not only does it organize your thoughts,
    it *actualizes* them, validates what they're about and makes them
    real. Communicating how you feel to others also takes a tremendous 
    "load off your chest" which is a feeling I think you're quite aware 
    of.
    
    	Good luck and keep writing!
    
    	Joe

    It is hard for me to understand that hate can exist between mother and
    son or viceversa... I am a mother of three, but if I just imagine that
    I could be the cause of hate from my son towards me...I'd wanted to die
    or drink, second best! I thought that mothers could NOT hate their
    children, or children could NOT hate their parents, I'm not saying that
    we do not make mistakes or are wrong, we all do mistakes, but never to
    the extent of producing HATE (a son is a part of oneself and we could
    feel mad, or angry at some wrong reactions or behaviors but never hate
    that half part of ours, that is to say we hate ourselves...) and that
    is a very destructive feeling,  How could we do good to others when we
    hate ourself? I don't have a reasonable answer for that.
    I wish I could explain my feeling a lot better, but my opinion to you
    would be to... show a bit of understanding to your mother, approach her
    when she is receptive and tell her that you CARE for her, that you miss
    not having her to help you and support you and listen to you... THAT
    would certainly put her to think what SHE is missing from you, she
    could get support from you because you're willing to help her... Do you
    see now two different poles trying to approach? I am sure she does not
    feel proud of her drinking and if she could get help I'm sure she'd
    seek it...
    I honestly sympasize with you, you have done great, find understanding
    and patience, I have a feeling you'll get through this problem with
    flying colors! At least that is what I wish.  Keep up your faith.
    And your principles, be fair. You will make it.
    
    Ana
    

Re. 0

Feelings are not right or wrong, they just are.  Yours are yours and you are
taking responsibility for that.  Mending your bitterness and your anger may
take time, but it is possible to do.  You sound like you're trying to do just
that.

You're doing a good job of looking for the answers you need for all the turmoil
that is inside you.  Counseling and a 12 Step program will help you get rid of
all the garbage inside you and heal the wounds.  Perhaps you and your wife 
should explore both joint and individual counseling.  

It is difficult to allow someone space when we're going through our own stuff.
And it is also difficult for the person who needs to be away to GIVE anything
when they're feeling like they need to pay attention to themselves.  Sometimes
pulling away can be a healthy thing, a break.  And if your wife says she 
doesn't want a divorce then her move can be construed as something she feels
she needs to do for herself.  In the end, it may benefit both of you.  

Perhaps you can work something out between you where you can keep in contact and
talk together on a schedule that is a compromise between you.  If you both want
to keep your marriage together, this agreement may help.

In the meantime, continue to do the positive things you've been doing for
yourself.

Good luck,
Susan

    I evidently differ with others who have written in here about a
    reconciliation with your mother.  I would suggest making peace with
    yourself regarding your mother and leave her alone.  Distance can
    lend perspective to situations that forcing yourself to re-enter
    can make worse.  I did not have a good relationship with my mother;
    in fact, I couldn't stand her and avoided her as much as possible.
    For me, it was the best thing I ever did for either of us.  She
    was forced to learn to depend on herself, and I finally had the
    freedom I needed to raise my own family.  Frankly, I've never regretted
    it.  Being around my mother always seemed to bring out the worst
    in me, so I simply wished her well and we went our separate ways.
    
    I commend you on taking the painful but necessary steps to heal
    yourself.  You MUST heal yourself before you can expect to heal
    your marriage, so the more consistent the effort to get through
    this "learning phase," the better your chances are for a quality
    life with your wife and children.  You cannot change the past, but
    you are re-creating the future.  You *are* the master of your own
    destiny.  Learn from your parents' mistakes.  Pick through the rubble
    to find whatever good things you want to keep from your time with
    your parents, and learn to value the "bad" things for the lessons
    that you can learn from them.  A saying that has helped me to leave
    a battered past behind me is, "The past should be a guidepost, NOT
    a hitching post."  I have taken it to heart, and, like the mythological
    phoenix, have risen again to become a better person than ever before--a
    person I am proud to be.  You, too, can become the person you want
    to be, and if I may be of any support during your "rebirth," I'll
    be happy to help.                 
                                      
    Kindest Regards,                  
    Barb                              
                                      
                                      

    I agree with .7.  I have one of those mothers that's hopeless to try to
    reform.  Some things (and mothers) are best left alone.  But you need
    to come to grips with how you feel about her.
    
    It seemed to me that .0 was more interested in his situation with his
    wife, not with the one with his mother.  Yet most of the
    advice/comments regards the mother.

    You have a right to be angry! There *may* come a time when you can feel
    sorry for your mother, pity your mother. In the meantime, anger is a
    very *healthy* response to her behavior. As a drunk she wasn't
    available to you to be the mother she had a responsibility and
    committment to be. You were short changed! That will never change. You
    deserved a better fate than a drunken mother. Just as she deserved a
    better fate than a drunken father.
    Accept the anger, recognize the anger. Maybe some day you can get
    beyond the anger, but don't let her memory shortchange you of the right
    to JUSTIFIED indignation and anger!
    
    				herb

    Just a passing thought... are you aware that your wife may be entitled
    to use the EAP to help her sort through the problems that are keeping
    you seperated now?  You may wish to check with your personnel
    department and if it is possible try suggesting it to her.  I assume
    that although you are currently living apart that there are still
    some lines of communication and working with EAP may be a way to
    open them up further.  
    
    I hope that this will help...
    
    Skip

    Hi, just a book reference. I highly recommend you read "Codependent
    No More" by Melody Beattie, published by Harper and Row. I think this 
    book may address a lot of the things you are facing. Wheteher you
    agree with it or not, it is certainly relevant and thought-provoking.
    Also, I recommend "A Book for Couples" by Hugh and Gayle Prather.
    
    Cheers,
    Theo