| In general, I'd say that one thing you might continue to
focus on is the notion of boundaries. Someone I respect a
great deal told me once "What others think of you is none
of your business; your business is what you think of your-
self." Because I've long had a tendency to define myself
through the eyes of others (sort of "I'm o.k. if you think
I'm o.k."), she was getting me to focus on the fact that I
cannot ultimately control what others think of me and trying
to feel good about myself by pleasing others was futile at
best and self-destructive at worst. One think I've needed
to work on is understanding my boundaries - what are my
problems and, more importantly for me, what are *not* my
problems. That's an especially difficult lesson for a "people
pleaser" to learn because the old behavior is to assume that
they're all "my" problems.
To be a bit more specific in answering the questions:
� How can I continue to break the cycle, and stick up for what
� I think without being myself a *banker* or an *egotist*?
Do you feel like a "banker" or "egotist"? Are you reasonably
comfortable with your ideas on how to handle finances in a
couple relationship? If your answers are "No" and "Yes" res-
pectively, then I'd suggest that if someone else thinks you're
a "banker" or "unreasonable", perhaps that should be their
problem. It seems to me that the key here is compromise.
If you've accurately represented the situation, you seem to be
willing to negotiate; see seems to be taking a non-negotiable
stance. That's o.k. - if she feels so strongly about the issue
that she doesn't wish to compromise, that's certainly her pre-
rogative. After all, we all have issues upon which we're willing
to compromise only very little or none at all. I think you have
to decide whether or not you're willing to buy into her model of
how things should be. It appears from your note that you wouldn't
be comfortable with such a buy-in, but I decline to say which way
you "should" decide. The only "should" I have for you is that I
think you should be the one to decide.
I'd only add parenthetically that for most couples, finances *are*
a very important issue. It's one of the most common causes of discord
between couples and I think it's a real important issue for people to
resolve if they're going to be in a long-term relationship.
� Given the "comprehensive" view of the situation, does it change your
� perspectives? I think this is it and we may split up. I don't want to
� do anything stupid, and part of me still thinks things are "my fault"
� when they don't work out.
No, my perspective is the same. I think you two have some areas
of significant difference and that if you can't resolve them in
a way that's agreeable to both, you're in for some real difficulty.
(Incidentally, that's always an option; there are couples who
manage to stay together despite enormous differences on critical
issues. Apparently they find other areas that are so rewarding
as to make the difficulties bearable.)
None of us want to do things that are "stupid" and it helps me to
remember that all I can do on any given day is the best I can.
Being human, I'm going to make some mistakes and I have to accept
that and move on. Over time, I'm learning that it's o.k. to learn.
A friend once said "All decisions are made on the basis of insuffi-
cient information" and I kind of like that. I have a self-destruc-
tive tendency to look back and say "Well, that was sure a dumb
mistake", but that comment is usually made from the perspective of
"knowing what I know now". What I'm learning is that I can remind
myself that usually when I made the mistake, I didn't know what
I know now and the best thing for me to do is try to forgive myself
for my ignorance and learn from the experience.
The only other things I'd add are that if you're one of those people
who has a tendency to think "It's my fault" when things don't work
out "happily ever after" 1) you're hardly alone and 2) "fault"
is a word used to ascribe blame. Is there really anyone to "blame"
when two people have radically differing view on how to handle a
particular living situation as a couple? As the song goes, "There
ain't no good guys/There ain't no bad guys/There's only you and
me and we just disagree". I'd ask yourself, Theo, what is "faulty"
here? You? Her? Or is there simply not enough of a match to
sustain a long-term couple relationship?
� Is generosity something achieved only by those who "don't care about
� practical things?"
I personally don't think so, but what do you think? It occurs to
me that between the extremes of the person who shares everything
with everyone and the person who shares nothing with anyone, there's
a lot of room for difference. One key to contentment is to feel
comfortable with where *you* are on that spectrum. In like fashion,
some people will compromise with anyone on any issue; conversely,
a few won't compromise with anyone on any issue. Once again, my
suggestion would be to focus on where you are on the spectrum.
One last thing: sometimes differences are irreconcileable and that's
usually painful. It's a simple premise, not necessarily easy to
accept, but simple nonetheless. That, as they say, is life and
I suspect that if there were no pain and learning, there'd be little
joy as well.
Steve
|
| Theo:
You have to take care of yourself first (oh, and your son, too) the
rest will fall into place.
As long as you feel good about yourself, that's all that matters ... My
sister once told me that people who feel bad about themselves
unconsciously attract the wrong people, because the wrong people can
"sense" you are vulnerable, and will use that to their best ability to
get what they want. I see you being very strong outside a
relationship, then the cycle of letting the woman dominate/dictate your
life falls into place. Maybe it's more comfortable for you to fall
back into the old patterns. But you have to resolve and make yourself
aware of when you are falling into the submissive pattern again, and
pull yourself out of it.
Don't feel guilty about taking care of your own personal needs first.
Once you become confident in yourself, only then will you be able to
work towards a *healthy* committed relationship.
Tammi
|
|
Hi Theo -
I'd like to make some comments on your most recent entry here -
> and let control the relationship because I didn't set expectations and
> hold to them, but tried to be the "nice guy", and then resented being
> "used" (my responsibility!) later.
The key here is "let control". Maybe there's something you havent
worked through, albeit a subconscious thing, that makes you want or feel more
comfortable with someone else taking the throttle.
> When it comes down to it, I too often don't know what my priorities
> are, and this leads to misperceptions about what I like or don't like,
Have you ever taken the time to establish this for yourself? Where
does your relationship fall in the heirarchy?
> her "helping" me and "educating" me, and systematically refusing all
> self-analysis. I cannot get around the feeling that there is something
> very similar with my former wife!
There is, and this was pointed out in reply .2
> Now my situation is difficult, but I know for a fact that I'm not that
> much in need of "help".
Oh really? Be careful here, as Mlle P probably thinks the same thing
about herself. Remember, it takes two to tango or dance other steps together.
> rather than letting these differences kill our relationship, we might
> try to work out something we're both comfortable with.
That's a very positive statment, one that you can believe in. However,
one thing that seems insurmountable at this point is the ability of both
partners to take a look at themselves.
> I feel I can be generous when I know the basic expenses are worked out.
> She says the only way to be generous is by not caring at all about
> money and never counting anything. I feel her attitude is also a
> coverup for not taking responsibility.
This sounds like a "setup" to me. Just be completely out of control
with your money so you can earn her approval on her definition of "generous".
There's a lot of caring in generosity and after a while going by her
definition, what you _did_ give would'nt mean anything anyway.
> She says anybody who has to talk about money is a *banker* and that it
> kills love. She refuses to make any agreement, instead justifying how
> much she says she has done in the past and claiming, in a
> self-righteous tone, she'll give me every cent in the future.
Still calling you names, I see. Still refusing to cooperate or
participate in the _whole_ relationship. What a *claim*, yeah, that's
something you can believe in...
> - There are similar things in my relationship with my former wife and
> with this woman. As long as I don't change, they tend to reestablish
> themselves.
This is true and will continue - but you've got the right idea.
Continue to learn and grow, getting the help you need and working on yourself.
Change is intrinsic to that process. We are presented lessons until we learn
them!
> - Given the "comprehensive" view of the situation, does it change your
> perspectives? I think this is it and we may split up.
Being in a relationship with someone who refuses to look at
themselves, see themselves in their part of the "dynamic" or work on
themselves will be very difficult. My relationship works so well because
we're *both* willing to do that and we *both* realize and work hard on our
own issues. Best of Luck!
Joe Jasniewski
|
| Theo,
I have been catching up with HUMAN_RELATIONS recently, so I've read through
your notes and the replies over the last day, rather than over time.
It seems to me that what happened is that at a vulnerable time, when you
"needed" something and this woman spotted that need (and that happens
subconcsiously) and responded... there are people who "thrive on crisis" or
"thrive on being needed"...
What is happening is that you are getting your head together and your need is
no longer so strong... so you are "growing apart" as she senses this she
becomes more controlling.
I believe that when you met you both had equal and opposite requirements which
were fullfilled - but that you are moving out of this phase now, and she is
not.
I suggest that you either get counselling or give up - to be honest, it seems
as if the "mutual needs" were what attracted you so maybe you should give up.
There is a book available here called "Women who love too much"... its actually
about women who consistently end up with "bastards" but it does explain how
these "patterns" in relationships occur...
I have also read an article about friends who are only around when you need
them - who lose interest/become less interesting when you get over your "crisis"
... do you think this is what is happening here?
Xtine
|