Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    
    Yes.
    I know a LOT of people like this.
    
    It makes me irritable because I get the feeling that they don't
    give a damn how I am - it was just a conversation-opener so that
    they could talk about themselves. I wish they'd just be honest about
    that upfront!
    
    The other thing that I've noticed is that the people I know always
    *play the same record*. They turn the attention to themselves so
    they can play the "victim" record or the "ain't I gorgeous?" record
    or one of many other stuck-needle records.
    
    They do not want to listen.
    Even to positive input.
    Or even to you trying to break off the "conversation"!
    
    Re: -1
    Do the people you have this syndrome with always talk about the
    same things, or is it anything as long as they're the centre of
    it?
    
    'gail
    
    

    Yeah.  Some people are really me-deep in conversation ;)....
    
    After they go on for a while, I'd tend to look bored and mention I had
    somewhere I had to be (even if it's only away from them).  Maybe with
    behavior modification you can teach them that when they start singing
    the same old songs, you stop listening....
    
    -Jody
    

	There are 2 people in particular. The odd thing is that
	I have learnt a great deal from them.

	The 1st is a close relative who is quite successful. This
	gave me a great deal to work for and in a quiet way, try to
	make him a little bit proud of me - as I am of him. I am
	on the verge of being as contented with life as he is.

	We were having a brief conversation only a few days ago
	and I thought from the sound of his voice that his inquiring
	question about my career progress was geniune. Only to find
	that after about 15 seconds, I had a 'break' for him to
	react. He did, but turned it to himself.

	The main reason that I have written this note was due
	to shear disappointment. In other words, I felt let down.

	The 2nd person is a fellow-worker. I can cope with this more
	easily that with my relative. The emotions, to me, are different.

	However, I will try my utmost to rain compliments on 
	either of these two the next time it happens - just to see
	what the reactions would be.

	I appreciate the last 2 replies, but what positive things do
	you think can be done to strengthen these sort of relationships - 
	especially with the relative.

Steve

    the person that switches the conversation over to them reminds me
    of someone I know that did that. The segue used to be the worse
    part. eg: me: "I did something neat today, blah, blah". 
    Cut-in: "oh that's nice, but I did something even better, blah blah..."

    Made me feel like what I said/did was never even heard. 
    
    Listening and communication skills are not innate. They are learned
    by listening to others and learning new ways of communicating. I
    try very hard to listen to what the other person is saying and then
    form a question to give them a chance to expand on what they've
    said, this gives the speaker feedback that I am interested in what
    they've said. Some people never learn how to listen effectively.
    
Gail    
    

    (Hi Gail!)
    
    I've found myself in the position of the "sinner" on occasion, stepped
    back mentally and wondered, "why am I doing this?  Is something
    bothering or exciting me so much that I can't focus on what the other
    person's trying to say?  Am I 'starving for attention/recognition'?"
    Perhaps those who are always calling attention to themselves are 
    experiencing some of these feelings...  After recognizing that I've
    been in "Me, Me, Me" mode, I start *really* paying attention to the
    other person's concerns, not just waiting for a break so that I can add
    comments on similar experiences *I*'ve had.  I agree that communication
    is a learned skill, so much of "normal conversation" tends to consist
    of reflex; person 1 talks, person 2 talks, person 1 talks... without a
    lot of real listening and understanding going on.  I appreciate it when
    someone *really* listens to me; and when I *really* listen to someone
    else, it gives me a break from *me*!
    
    MTCW,
    Diane

    Listening is a skill too.  I am often a 'sinner'.  I think I have a
    hard time turning my brain off.  I word or a thought triggers thoughts
    in my head and I am gone.  
    
    If it were me I would like my friend or relative to tell me.  A comment
    like "Joyce, I don't think you are listening to *me* don't you want to
    hear my story".  I would not be upset.

    RE: .0

    I think all you can do is point it out to the person, and explain how
    you felt when it was happening..  don't count on it working though..  I
    know one person that no matter how often someone points it out to them,
    they just can't {won't?} change their behavior...  why I don't know...

    but rest assured, it's not only you :-)

so many begin
with

long stories of
me

soaked in tears
salt

beside one sympathetic
phrase



Sorry, but just couldn't resist; and apology to William Carlos Williams.

Eugene

I also know a lot of people who act that way but must admit that it were only 
women so far. I had a "best friend" at high school, and when ever I showed up
with "Listen, I got a problem. That's what happened ...." she would always 
interupt me with "Yea, this also happened to me once, and it went so... and
I did .... bla bla bla".

Two years ago I attended a "Communication Seminar" where the first lesson 
we learned was "to listen" - I never knew how difficult that is. I did the
same what I critized on others - interrupted them because I couldn't wait
to tell "my" story!

Well, now I know better. I've really *learned* to listen (remember: you've
got two ears but only on mouth, so use it that way ....), and whenever
somebody is now interrupting *me* I listen carefully until (s)he is finished 
and then I say something like "Well, that's interesting, would like to discuss
this later, too, but now I think I can go on talking because I haven't finished
yet. Is this ok?" I never got anything else than an "Of course, dear!".
And besides, these people then listened so carefully, because they knew 
their turn would be a little later and they could just relax and listen
now. It works great!

Billie_now_listening_again

    I recently ran into a situation like this in an Investment in
    Excellence course here.  This guy consistently interrupted everyone in
    class for three days.  I finally had had enough and told him that
    although what he had to share was valuable I felt that what other
    people had to share was at least of equal value and would he please
    stop interrupting everyone else because I felt it invalidated
    what they had to say.  This led to a rather lengthy but positive
    discussion on why he did this and the protocol of good group
    conversations.  He didn't entirely cease and desist but it was obvious
    that he made an effort to be aware and let other people finish their
    thoughts before jumping in.
    
    Nanci

    	Interesting; in high school, I had an English teacher that told us
    that too many folks speak without really listening to what else is
    being said.  I have learned later she was right.


    	But what she did for us was hold a one week course on how to really
    Listen.  And I am so glad I went through it at a fairly young age; I
    have found I learn *far* more by listening than by talking!  ;-)  I
    think I've become a pretty decent conversationalist, and I've noticed
    that people open up to me pretty quickly.


    	Unfortunately, I have a friend who is almost at the opposite end of
    the spectrum.  In fact, he can be so rude that when I first met him we
    almost didn't become friends!  But I soon learned that he does this
    without really meaning to.  I have been wondering how I might break him
    of this without hurting his feelings, because his heart really is in
    the right place.


    Brian

    re .0
    
     Exactly....
      I catch myself...  It's pretty easy to drift off onto different
     areas (Which are now *Happenning* for me) of conversation, primarily
     from old *dAd AnD mOm* days, where the primary family activities
     centered around them admiring themselves in the mirror....and being
     an Aries (yes there are a few definite traits...but Most of them
     are *Overrated*)...I can now see where the frustration came from.

     Listening is a LOT more interesting/fun than giving speeches.
    
     steve
    

    If we're *all* listening, just who are we listening to?
    
    8-)
    	Bob

    See topic title.
    
    (: >,)

	The chapter in "The Birth Order Book" on only children describes me to 
a tee! As my parent's "little jewel", I got much more than a fair share of 
attention. There _were_ no others to share with, no brothers or sisters to 
compete with in this space. I was the prime focus; I was never required to 
be aware that "others" even existed (besides myself) until I started school. 

	Another effect of being my parent's prime focus was that I didnt have 
to be personally self-assured like, at all. I got all the attention and 
assurance I ever needed from outside myself - from my mother mostly. I feel 
now that I missed out on the opportunity to learn much of anything about doing 
that on my own or sharing the gift of an adult's attention, as a child.

	In some ways, which I'm finding out through another book I'm reading,
I was "overparented". This has caused some very specific problems for me, 
especially when I find that my subconscious expectations of the real world 
arent met like they were in the world my parents created for me. I can still 
feel "entitled" to the same level of attention and consideration my parents 
once gave, from others.

	For example, I can have some difficulty keeping myself from taking 
"center stage" in a conversation, even when it's clear that someone else needs 
to talk about *them*. I might do the classic "Okay - let's talk about you! 
So_what_do_you_think_of_me?" almost immediately, or find some other twist to 
shift the subject onto *me*, without even realizing I'm doing it as it's 
happening...This often happens when I'm upset with myself or something.

	However, at other times, I can be a good listener. People tell me this 
and say that I'm easy to talk to. However, "people skills" is something that 
I have to work at and I'm ususally actively aware of "who's talking" and "how 
much" so I can fairly meter my time as the center of attention.

	Joe Jasniewski

    From Ambrose Bierce's _The Devil's Dictionary_:
    
    Egotist, n. A person of low taste, more interested in himself than in
    me.
    
    Bore, n. A person who talks when you wish him to listen.
    
    	Jon

    
     It would be a lot better if this type of person could READ BODY
    LANGUAGE!!!  And get the hint to shut-up and let me talk a bit !!!
    
      I too know a lot of people like this. Seems they have NO tolerance
    for listening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    Jack
    

I can, I know, be very very boring... not all the time, but when I've got 
something on my mind I just have to share it...

At the moment, I am going through "teenage 'love' agonies" again for the first 
time in over 4 years... its hopeless... I try and focus on something else, then
the doubts and constant trying to "analyse" snippets of conversation happens...

I am really aware that at the moment this is a problem, so much so that at lunch
the other day I said to my long-suffering friend "Look, I know this is boring 
the backside off you, but I NEED to do this, the good thing is you'll know that
next time you feel like this - I'LL listen!, and if it gets too unbearable feel
free to tell me to shut-up or to keep out my way till I get over this"

After I had admitted I KNEW what I was doing, but couldn't help it I saw her
relax, and we could laugh it off, and now - well, I owe her one ;-)



Xtine

>.0      ... the other person always seems to turn the lime-light 
>        back onto himself 

I like people to talk about themselves if what they are saying
is relevant or interesting.  If they are repeating themselves for
the 18th time  ---->  hand over ears    |..|   

Truman Capote talked about himself endlessly ... I loved it!

Last summer I spent a weekend with a cousin who may be the
world champ on lime-lighting herself.  She was the first person
in America to love folk music, love JFK, grasp ecology ....
She was dying for pats on the back, so I went along.

In one way, she drove me nuts.  She wanted to talk about
herself all the time BUT she couldn't hear anyone else
in any way, even about herself. For instance, she talked about 
her law work for about an hour, but when I asked her about a facet of
revising contracts, she uttered five words, and went on
to something else.  She wouldn't respond to what I wanted
to know.  At first, I thought it was some kind of hostility,
but finally decided she was simply impervious to input.
She is lost inside her own head.

A friend of mine, who is single, and I were talking about 
this me-me reflex in relationships, and we came up with
a metaphor:

 Each one of us is irretrievable isolated on our own island.
 One of the joys of relationships is that you get to find 
 out about someone else's island, and you get to tell
 them about yours.  You get to see your island through their
 eyes, and they can see theirs through yours.  The world
 enlarges. 

 If your whole 'duty' in a relationship is to admire their
 island, it's a dull relationship. 

 Meigs (who is feeling verbose tonight)