Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    You say he was about a year old, and yet he *remembers* these incidents?

    \RE:1
    
    o The basenote stated:
    
    >> ..He said she told him that when he was about a year old...
    
                 THEN
    
    o >> ..after the twins were born he remembers....
    
    Could be cosmic-magnetic memory ? Revealed in a hypnotic trance ?  

    I agree with re:1, It is kind of uncanny for a one year old to remember
    so clearly.  I can remember as far back as three years old, and that is
    it.  Yes take it with a grain of salt. You mom sounds like she really
    cares about you and would not want to hurt you.
    
    
    good luck
    
    Lynne

Anon,

First - take heart.  You don't have to go around wondering for the rest
of your life if you don't want to - ask your mother about why the twins
were still born and how she feels about it.  You don't even have to 
divulge anything your brother told you, especially how he feels about
it.

As for your brother, there are a couple of things you might consider.
There have been a lot of losses experienced in your family, losses that
children like your brother might blame themselves for.  It sounds to me
that he blames himself for the twins' stillbirth and it's possible that
he may have *created* a memory that justifies resentment as a coping 
mechanism against that guilt - i.e. he feels guilty that mom saving him
from falling caused the stillbirth so he imagines that mom is mad at 
him and makes himself believe that mom then retaliated in anger by 
shoving him off the porch.  

I don't think this possibility is too far off the mark.  I remember a 
lot of things from the vantage point of my childhood VERY differently 
from the way my parents remember them - because they were influenced by 
my feelings of insecurity at the time.

There was also the divorce, and that may have fed his feeling of guilt
and shame.  He could be blaming this on himself, too.  You mentioned that 
you weren't close to your father, but your brother was.  Is it possible 
that your father may have picked up on your brother's guilt and fed it 
futher as a means to attack your mother?  

Excessive guilt and shame breeds resentment = scapegoat.  Your description
of your brother fits that.  Your memory of your mother, however, doesn't 
fit with the things he's telling you.

I could be completely off base, but it sounds to me like your brother 
needs professional help.

Carol    

    
    Yes, definitely talk to your mother.  (when?  perhaps now instead
    of reading more hr notes :-)
    
    /Eric

    
    In some ways, I agree with the others - the incident may have never
    happened.  Perhaps she did say those things but he imagined she pushed
    him off the porch.
    
    It is possible that your mother may have uttered the words without 
    thinking.  When people are grieving, they can say things that they 
    don't mean.  Also, they look for some reason as to why it happened.  
    Perhaps she felt she was more to blame than your brother but took 
    it out on him.  Who can say?  
    
    Obviously, this is really bothering you so you need to work it out.
    I suggest that you discuss it with your mother.  Personally, I can't
    see how your brother would feel guilty without some encouragement from
    an adult.  How can a one year old understand the concept of cause and
    effect without being taught?   The idea must have originated somewhere.
    Of course there is the possibility he dreamed it and never separated it
    from reality.  Face it - there are numerous possibilities.  
    
    I have a question for the author:  if what your brother said does
    happen to be true, would it affect the relationship you have with your
    mother?  I think as we get older, we all learn that our parents are
    HUMAN...bound to make mistakes just like everyone else.  It's not
    always easy but we do need to accept our parents - flaws and all. 
    
    
    Kris

    Memories and perceptions of the events you describe are clearly having
    a powerful long-term effect on your brother, your mother, and yourself. 
    That seems likely to continue, even if you try to ignore them.  While
    discussing them with your mother and brother will likely be painful, it
    seems unlikely to make relations worse, and might do the opposite.
    
    I suspect, though, that you should start by NOT expecting to uncover
    "what really happened."  There are going to be multiple realities here. 
    Your brother's memories are entirely real to him, even if they
    contradict your mother's legitimate memories.  Even if legions of
    aunts, uncles, and grandparents were still around, they would not
    necessarily be able to lead you to "the truth."  Similarly, you may
    need to start accepting the fact that for some reason(s), your mother
    didn't succeed in her parenting role with your brother.  But that
    needn't contradict the "success" you feel she had in her relation with
    you.
    
    While communication may not produce agreement on the past, it is likely
    to help people understand the present status of long-buried emotions. 
    Doing so could lead to some degree of reconciliation, but even if it
    doesn't, it is likely to allow people individually to come to better
    terms with their own anger and guilt.
    
    Good luck, whatever course you decide to follow.  You are a player in
    this drama, too.  And you have neither the assignment nor the power to
    make everything "come out right," however you decide to act.

re: .0
re: When you find out parents aren't ...

    >What do  you  do when you find out something about your parents that
    >you don't really want to believe.  

    >Any advice, comfort, etc. would be greatly appreciated at this time.

    There exists  an organization an acquaintance sought out when having
    troubles of his  own.    basically,  this  is a psychological memory
    'recovery' clinic, who specialize  in helping people remember events
    so traumatic that they have  'blocked  them  out' of their conscious
    memory.

    If you need the name of  the clinic, have one of the moderators send
    me personal mail, an I'll ask the  person  for  the  name  and phone
    number of the clinic.
    
    Bob