| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
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| 972.1 | Besides what the dictionary says . | BTOVT::BOATENG_K | Keine freien proben ! | Wed Mar 07 1990 16:31 | 6 |
| RE
Can you illustrate with a specific example of how "she intimidates you?
Is she younger or older ? Smaller or bigger ? Taller or shorter ?
What I mean is: How can a 10-year-old sister intimidate a 30 year
old sibling ? (As an example) How does she do it ? Any further explanation ?
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| 972.2 | | MSDOA::MCMULLIN | | Wed Mar 07 1990 16:50 | 23 |
| re .1
She's 14 years older than I am. I'm 24 years old and she still tries
to treat me like a kid. But, when I try to tell her that I am married
and living my own life and I've been married and living my own life for
5 years, she acts like I've insulted her. So, I guess instead of
speaking up and telling her what I really think, I let her do all the
talking and I do all the listening and i just go along with her to
prevent her from getting her feelings hurt and then making my life hell
(she likes to talk about people, too). I just feel intimidated by her
every time we talk. She won't take no for an answer, either without
asking again and again and again. I guess she hopes eventually I'll
give in and agree. It just gets old after a while. I've gotten to
where I dread talking to her. I was talking to her today and I was
seeing red by the time we got off the phone. But, for two reasons, I
kept my mouth closed. One reason was stated above, the second reason
is because I was at work and had people standing around me.
But, on the other hand, out of my 4 siblings, I feel like she and I are
the closest and share more of the same views on things. It's just
weird.
Virginia
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| 972.3 | | DEC25::BRUNO | Beware the Night Writer! | Wed Mar 07 1990 18:51 | 11 |
| Virginia,
I have a relative who has a very similar situation. After many
years of taking the intimidation from her twin sister, and allowing it
to give her loads of stress, she finally told her twin that it would
happen no longer. The twin stopped talking to her and there is a
period of alienation between them. However, it is likely that it will
soon come to an end. It was necessary to do this, but the fact that
she waited so long made it that much more painful for both.
Greg
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| 972.4 | Tune it out! | TRNPRC::SIGEL | My dog ate my briefcase | Thu Mar 08 1990 08:02 | 11 |
| Virginia.
All you can do is what ever she says you have to let it "Go in one ear,
and out the other", just ignore it. You know that is her way and you
can't change her, so just try not to let it bother you when she says
something to hurt your feelings. I know it is hard at first but you
can learn to "tune" a person out, and it does work!!
hang in there!
Lynne
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| 972.5 | Here's one way - | ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI | This time forever! | Thu Mar 08 1990 09:29 | 49 |
|
Hi -
> thinks the whole world is against her, so anything you try
> to tell her she takes the wrong way.
This is her problem, not yours. She has an "attitude" to begin
with, which only she can change, if and when she choses to do so.
> speaking up and telling her what I really think, I let her do
> all the talking and I do all the listening and i just go along
> with her to prevent her from getting her feelings hurt and
> then making my life hell
Here, what you're doing is called "enabling the situation". She's
controlling you through manipulation, and you're buying into that
by your choice of not speaking up with what you really think. The
implied threat is that she'll make your life hell if you dont
co-operate! Since when is it your responsibility to "prevent" her from
getting her feelings hurt?
> She wont take no for and answer, either without asking again
> and again and again.
The asking "again and again and again" is a form of manipulation.
You saying "no" is like putting a lid on something, and her asking
repeatedly is like working on that lid with a can opener - eventually
it'll come off. Every time you give in, you "volunteer" to be put
under her control again.
Perhaps you were once under her control, when you were a little
girl and she was your baby-sitter or whatever. Realistically, times
have changed, but she's not changed with the times. I think the
most loving thing you can do, thought it might not seem that way
at first glance, would be to simply take care of your own feelings
and let her take care of hers. Everytime you buy into her controlling
and manipulation, you're actually doing both yourself and her damage.
Let go of your feeling "responsible" for how she feels. Place
how you feel above that in your personal prioritys. Beware that she
wont like you for doing that at all! There will be a bit of friction
between you two for a while, should you choose to do this. But in the
long run, things will be much better for the both of you than they
are now, where things have gotten to the point where you dread even
talking to her...
Good luck!
Joe Jasniewski
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| 972.6 | | GEMVAX::CICCOLINI | | Mon Mar 12 1990 13:43 | 50 |
| I agree with -1. You aren't being intimidated, you are conceding to
blackmail.
You are voluntarily obeying her rules, (not upsetting her), while
allowing her to ignore yours.
The first step is to respect yourself! The second one is to realize
that you are not responsible for making sure her life is as rosy as
possible. And the third is to REFUSE to be blackmailed. How to do
that is less easy, tho. When it begins, don't deal in generalizations,
i.e. "You always treat me like a kid" but in specifics, "I've
understood that ever since I became an adult". If she gets angry,
you'll have to let her. Understand that she is not angry that you have
contradicted her, but rather that you have changed the rules of your
interaction - the rules she wrote that says she is adult and you are
kid. If/when she gets angry, you might ask her specifically what she
is upset about. Refusing to be blackmailed means you must refuse to
perform your usual part in the exchange whereby you understand and
accept unquestioningly, why she is angry without putting any burden on
her to explain herself. Don't fill in the blanks anymore. Assume
everything is fine until she comes right out with a specific complaint.
If you sense her getting angry, merely continue cheerfully on.
And don't let HER generalize, either. Make her give you a concrete
explanation for her anger, with the explanation that you sincerely
want to understand.
This dance is something the two of you have been engaging in for years
and if you don't like it, it's up to you to stop stepping back when she
steps forward, as you have always done. She'll get frustrated, she'll
get angry, you bet! But if she hasn't given you a concrete reason for
her anger, then she doesn't wish to share it with you. And if she
doesn't, it isn't up to you to *take upon yourself* the burden of her
anger.
It's hard with lovers and family members because where we expect to be
treated with love and generosity, anything less is confusing. So try
in your mind to remove the familial connection and you will clearly see
the blackmail underneath. Imagine the exchange taking place with a
co-worker instead. How would you react?
For your part, you might want to think about the reasons she needs to
feel in control of you and that might help you to feel sympathy
toward her rather than animosity as you inject this new element into
your relationship - respect for you. And lastly, you have to have the
strength to insist on being treated with respect and decide for
yourself that if it should come to this, which is more important - your
self respect or your relationship with your sister? That's the
ultimate question because since that's the underlying basis of this
relationship, she may, in her frustration, blurt it right out.
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| 972.7 | | LDYBUG::LAVEY | Destination unknown | Mon Mar 12 1990 17:18 | 20 |
| I don't know how helpful this might be, but you might consider checking
it out. I just finished a book called _The Gentle Art of Verbal
Self-Defense_, by Suzette Elgin Ha(y?)den (not sure of the spelling of
the last name). I found a discounted hardcover copy at Lauriat's.
It's a very careful analysis of the typical verbal "attacks" that can
be hard to deal with -- and it sounds as though your sister is very
good at verbal sparring.
The books deals with the "why don't you ever..." and "if you _really_
wanted to (X) you'd (Y)" kind of questions, and how to respond to them
without giving in to the assumptions behind the questions. For
instance, implicit in the second question is the supposition that you
*don't* really want to (X), and you *should*, therefore you should feel
really guilty because you're a rotten person for feeling that way.
Gives suggestions on how to respond without acknowledging those hidden
assumptions. I haven't actually had occasion to use anything in it
(yet... :-} ) but it was an interesting book.
-- Cathy
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| 972.8 | | LDYBUG::LAVEY | Dreaming desperate dreams | Tue Mar 13 1990 08:17 | 3 |
| Correction: the author's name is Suzette Haden Elgin.
-- Cathy
|
| 972.9 | I think she sees you as more confident & secure | RELENG::MARRA | | Tue Mar 20 1990 16:57 | 138 |
| Virginia, does your sister have any children? I'm 12 years older than
my sister and it's taken us years to be able to communicate like
siblings should. Is your sister the oldest of all of you? I'm the
oldest of 4 children and a lot was placed on my shoulders as a child;
even still as an adult. Is your sister a responsible individual? One
that the rest of the family look towards as strength and stability?
Both my parents, my sister and one of my brothers and their spouses
generally feel that I've "got it together". The older of my two
brothers is like myself. And the family basically look to him as they
do to myself. My youngest brother now is no longer speaking to me and
this results from note #969 in this file. I'm angry and upset about
it because I always felt closest to that brother (we have 8 years
difference between us). But I realize that time will heal that and I'm
giving him the space he needs to heal himself and possibly forgive
himself, rather than me.
My sister, who's 12 years younger than I am always leaned on me, looked
up to me for a long time, and then for a number of years we had a
love/hate relationship. She married young (as I did); had 3 children;
divorced their father; left 2 children with the father and kept one
herself; dealt with guilt feelings over leaving her other children;
not only changed her last name --- she changed her first name as well;
married again within 6 months of her first divorce; left husband #2
after only 2 months of marriage; after a year was finally able to
divorce him; got engaged again a week after divorce #2; broke the
engagement after this guy helped her buy a condo then she tucked it to
him ...; a few weeks ago met another man; he moved into the condo with
her; this weekend they're moving out of the condo into an apt. together
with her daughter. She talked to me last night and told me that as her
older sister, she always looked at me as being her second mother. She
called last night looking for my approval. I can't give my approval.
About all I can do is tell her that she's got to do what's right for
her; maybe this time it's the right guy ... who knows? And that it is
possible to meet someone and fall in love and have it be right so soon.
You don't always need months or years to get to know someone. My folks
were married after dating 3 months. They were married 30 years and got
divorced. Mom's still single and never dates. Her whole life is us
kids and her grandkids. That's what's right for her. My Dad has been
married 3 times since Mom. Do you ever really know the person you
believe you're in love with?
Like your sister, my sister drives me nuts too. In my situation I have
a daughter (20) and she's 8 years younger than my sister. My daughter
is "J-U-S-T L-I-K-E M-Y S-I-S-T-E-R" and my daughter just moved back
home with us a week ago because she hit rock bottom out in California.
She's driving me nutso too! Both my sister and my daughter are very
negative people. Until reading the responses in this notes file, I
hadn't viewed their negativism as intimidation or manipulation. I'm
still not sure I do. I think they need to start to like (and possibly
love) themselves; start to feel secure in their surroundings; feel
secure that their families love them no matter what. Throughout our
lives we all (myself included) need approval (even though we
consciously aren't aware of it) from our loved ones. I'm fortunate in
the situation with my sister. I'm now 40 and she's 28; and last night
she told me that she looks to me for approval for what she's doing and
that she looks upon me as though I were her mother. But over the last
year or so we've learned to become friends. Maybe that's what you and
your sister need. When a friend of ours does something we don't like
what do we do? We stay away from them or we fight back with them and
tell them they're being a jerk. Don't be afraid to tell your sister
that she's invading your territory and that she's being a jerk, that
she's being negative and that she brings you down when she's like that.
You'd say it to a friend, right?
My sister and I have had serious disagreements. Especially about her
leaving her children like she did and selecting only one of them to
keep. Children aren't like cats or dogs. Once you have them they're
yours for life. You don't pick the best of the litter. But what we
both had to realize, mostly me, was that she was / is doing what she
has to for where she's at right now in her life; and I had to realize
that I don't have the right to interfere in her decisions. But .....
we are entitled to our opinions. She's finally starting to mature and
is finally working positively to improve the quality of her life. It's
just taken her more time than the average person, but she'll get there.
And she knows that she's loved by us. And it's okay to not agree with
her all the time. She doesn't agree with me all the time either. Only
she's more vocal about it than I would ever be with her. Myself, I
don't bring up things with her unless she's opened the door. And when
I do I try to guard what I say because I don't want the door closed in
my face. Almost like "not burning your bridges". She's my sister and
I need her approval and love, same as she needs mine.
My daughter on the other hand is so difficult to deal with right now.
Everything I say is wrong. Even when she asks my opinion or asks what
I think she should do. I give her an honest answer and she finds a way
to turn it around and make it negative. When I told her the other day
that she's a very negative person and asked if she couldn't just once
find something positive in a situation, she turned that around on me.
She told me that I'm always putting her down and that we're negative
about her. First of all if I was negative about her I would have left
her stay in California where she had absolutely nothing (no job, no
place to live, no friends, no money, etc.) Pretty bleak picture. If
you read note #969 you'll have a better understanding of why I brought
her home. I love her and want to help her. I'm not sure, but I think
the problem with her and I is that she wants me to be her friend. And
I can be when the situation warrants a friend. Right now I feel that
her situation warrants a parent. I'm doing everything in my power to
help her get back on her feet and to start to see something positive in
her life. At 20 she feels she's never going to be loved (a real
lasting kind of love) again. She's so far into debt that she can't see
her way out of it. I'm trying to help her with that but when I ask her
who she owes money to and how much and suggest she make out a list so
we can try to figure out a budget and pay a little at a time she gets
frustrated and angry with me and she says, "Mom ... I know what I'm
doing." Does she? If she did she wouldn't have hit rock bottom like
she just did and she wouldn't have needed to return home to try to get
it together again. Sounds a little harsh and it's not meant to. I'm
glad that she felt she could turn to me and that she sees me as being a
stable part of her life. Even my son is coming around a little at a
time. With him it's just going to take more time. But I'll be here
for him as well. I love them both in spite of the tragic turns their
lives have taken.
Families are wonderful and frightful commodities we all have. But from
from the last line of an article I keep posted nearby at home written
by Helen Bottel from the PARENTS' SURVIVAL KIT about "Families", it
reads:
"A family is when everybody laughs, cries and loves
together. Once in a while they're hard to live with
but you couldn't live without them."
I know I wouldn't want to be without my family. Especially my children
even though they've both brought a wealth of problems into my life.
They on the other hand have brought into my life a wealth of love,
happiness and a sense of being. Believe it or not, my children have
also made me a stronger, more independent person, and someone who seeks
out answers rather than always try to do it on my own. I'd be nothing
without my children and I'm not afraid to acknowledge that.
Virginia, hang on. But you said you're married now. Make your first
priority yourself and your own family (husband and kids). There are no
right or wrong answers to any of our situations. All we can do is
what's right at the time for us. People may be hurt emotionally along
the way, but families are always there and pull together in times of
need or during good times.
Ginny
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