Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Honesty is often the best policy.  Since you can't hide that something
    is wrong, (he noticed this morning, didn't he?), just tell him.  Say
    something like "I have been working on this part of me that gets
    jealous of the dumbest things, and although that part of me is very
    small, sometimes it rears it's ugly head.  I am feeling a little
    jealous right now, but I will work through it..."  
    
    It is important that you not threaten him with the jealousy, just
    acknowledge it.  This is your problem, not his and if he feels like you
    are "pushing" the jealousy thing, you might put a damper in a good
    relationship.
    
    
    I would seriously suggest that you see a counselor about the jealousy. 
    Envy is a natural and common emotion, but jealousy that robs you of a
    night of sleep is probably rooted in something else.  A counselor might
    be able to help you identify what produces this reaction, and then work
    through it.  All of us have been jealous at some time or another, but
    it sounds like your jealousy has gotten out of hand.  
    
    Good luck!
    
    Sue

I second the previous advice, to be honest with your boyfriend.

I know exactly where you are coming from.  For years, I was so jealous that
I would get *angry* if I saw a woman looking at my lover, let alone him
looking back. It hurts so much, especially when you *know* it is unfounded,
you really trust him, and so to add to the pain and worry of the jealously,
you feel guilty for having negative emotions toward an SO who hasn't done
anything to deserve it.

I don't know about you, but my own jealously stemmed from my own feelings
of unworthiness...that just about every woman was better than me, and if
my lover had too much contact with other women, he'd realize it.  I always
figured I was second best to past loves of his, and that he would rather be
with them, but they didn't want him.  I was so insecure I just could deal
with the "competition", even though really there never *was* any competition.

I'm still dealing with it, but I've gotten a lot better.  The first step
for me was realizing, at least on an intellectual level, that the jealousy
and insecurity were unfounded.  I had to start looking for good things 
within myself, instead of being dependent on my lovers to prove I was good...
and the more I came to rely on *myself* for validation, the more I was able
to accept that my SO might love me for *me*, even when compared with other
women.  It is so much more satisfying to know that he will still love me
even when there *are* other women available, and that I am not just "the
best he can get"...

AT any rate, do tell your boyfriend.  I didn't, in one relationship, and
found that even though he wasn't responsible for my anger, I was still 
angry at him, and the anger built up, and I manufactured situations that
would allow me to vent it at him.  He had no idea where it was coming
from.  When I finally told him how jealous I was, he was surprisingly 
understanding. He didn't cater to my jealousy by limiting his contact with
other women, but instaed helped me to realize that he wasn't *interested*
in other women because he had me.  Hiding aspects of yourself that you need
to help deal with will only make them *harder* to deal with.  He might even
be able to help!

D!

    Just shooting from the hip, I'd offer a couple of possible 
    suggestions:
    
     o	Continue to ask for help.  Asking for help here is one
    	way (and I feel certain that there are others who've been 
    	through similar situations).  Perhaps a session or two with
    	a counselor might be very helpful (EAP can help make a re-
    	commendation).  
    
    	One thing that becomes clear in reading your note is that 
    	this jealousy is not something you've "chosen" for yourself 
    	and it's something you ardently want to change.  It seems 
    	to me that this attitude is indicative of having taken the 
    	first and most difficult steps in change: the admission that
    	something is wrong and the acknowledgement that changing it
    	is your responsibility.  My experience has been that the next
    	most important step is accepting that I might have to seek 
    	help in making such changes.
                            
    
     o	Share your note with him.  It's well-written and clearly 
    	states your problem and the feelings you have about it.  
    	From your words, it's clear that he means a great deal to
    	you and you to him.  Sharing the "darker/scarier" parts
    	of yourselves with each other can be a powerful means of
    	bonding.
    
    	Or, if sharing the exact nature of the problem is too diffi-
    	cult right now, at least let him know that, yes, something
    	is wrong and when you can share more of it with him you will.
    	Offhand, I'd guess that one of the least productive paths would
    	be to deny that something's wrong; he apparently suspects that
    	this isn't the case and letting him at least know his "radar"
    	is working well will help build the relationship in the long
    	run.
    
     o	Be kind to yourself in this process.  Your feelings and thoughts
    	are neither "silly" nor "stupid"; they're simply there.  They
    	may well have roots in events of long ago over which you had 
    	little control.  Your strength lies in your commitment to 
    	the quality of your relationship and this begins with a commit-
    	ment to yourself.  When you're feeling down because of the
    	difficulty this problem is bringing, give yourself a pat on
    	the back for being willing to deal with it and change things.
    
    	You say you want the very best for this relationship.  Well, 
    	guess what. . .you deserve it!  You may have to work for it�
    	- you may have to work through some pain from your own history - 
        but if you remain committed to the ideal that you can have a
    	wonderful relationship that you richly deserve, it can be yours.
    
    Best of luck (and stay in touch),
    
    Steve
    
    � "may" is probably an understatement here.  Every long-term rela-
      tionship I've known of that the participants felt was "good" had
      a couple of things in common; one of those things was that the
      people involved said it took a good deal of work, individually
      and together.

    Speaking from experience, the problem probably has its roots in
    your adolescence.  You carry that with you in your reactions to
    situations today.  It doesn't matter who your SO is, the pattern
    of emotional response behavior is the same.
    
    You are suffering from low self-esteem, insecurity, fear of
    competition and utlimately fear of loss or abandonment.  Everything
    can be seen as a threat to your relationship.
    
    The answer is first in understanding this intellectually (I did this
    through counselling), then a re-training of your emotional response
    to a more appropriate one for the current situation (hypno-therapy
    helped here).
    
    Of course, a loving and supporting SO is imperative.  It doesn't
    alway go away completely, but it's at a level that's much easier
    to live with.
    
    I also suggest reading Nancy Friday's book "Jealousy".  It is very
    enlightening and you won't feel like you are the only one suffering
    from this.  It's much more common than you think.
    
    It takes a lot of hard work, but it's worth it!!
    
    Good luck
    
    Helaine

        RE: .0
        I'm not sure how much of the "grumbling inside" is jealousy.
        I've never meet anyone who enjoyed talking about past lovers,
        the topic sure troubles me and I TRY to avoid it
    
        I'd only suggest making more friends and sharing your feelings
      
        christopher

    Survey says:
    
    Tell him.  He's already noticing that something's wrong, even if you've
    managed to explain it away.  It's a lot easier to handle something if
    you know what's going on.  If you don't tell him, he might decide your
    changed behavior is caused by something else entirely -- like maybe you
    don't love him anymore but you don't know how to tell him.  I think
    he'd rather deal with you being jealous than worry about you leaving.

    	Speaking from the other side of the coin here...I was involved
    with a very jealous partner at one time.  (In fact, I think the
    first note I ever wrote in this conference was asking advice
    dealing with it/him.  There's a note called "That Green Eyed Monster"
    or something like that back quite a ways that you might want to 
    read.)  He had told me early on in our relationship that he had a 
    real problem with jealousy.  But it wasn't until we had been seeing 
    each other for a while that it started to really be a problem.  It 
    caused some pretty good fights, but because I cared so much, I 
    was willing to try and deal with it.  Close friends of his that I 
    knew also told me that he was dealing with it better than he had in
    previous relationships, but it was still a definite problem.

    	For him, it definitely stemmed from some insecurities.  And
    while that wasn't the entire reason we broke up, I think it was
    part of it.  Definitely talk to your boyfriend about it, and do
    consider talking to someone who might be able to help you
    understand and get a hold on it.   Holding it back from him can
    only hurt by putting a barrier in your relationship.  Be honest
    with him (and yourself).  If he cares enough, he'll talk to you
    about it, and try and help you deal with it.  But solving the
    problem must come from within you (i.e. don't expect him to say 
    he won't talk to old girlfriends, etc.).

    	FWIW, my ex has now been involved with someone for almost two
    years, and though he still experiences some jealousy, it's not
    nearly as bad as it used to be.  So it can be dealt with!

    Good luck!

    	amy

    Remember one thing: He loves YOU and not HER! You just got to keep on
    thinking on those lines.  Dont worry, just try to block it out of your
    mind.  It is normal to feel a bit jealous, because everyone does at one
    time or another. Don't let it ruin a wonderful relationship though. 
    And one other thing, you have an image in your mind that this "other
    woman" is physically beautiful, right? Did you ever see what she looks
    like? Don't worry!!! Enjoy your relationship!!
    
    best of luck!
    
    Lynne

    The Green Eyed monster - I know it well....When I first met my husband,
    I felt jelous of previous girfriends, sometimes, of just being as
    close to my husband as I was then...I tried to deal with my jelousy
    on my own, and then one day it would explode....Quite frankly, it
    almost ruined out relationship.  Then one day, we talked of marriage
    and then got engaged.  I realised that this was a big commitment
    for him, and that my jelousy was unfounded.  My imagination was
    probably the worst thing, like you I used to imagine the most beautiful
    women etc. etc. I realised that it was pointless tormenting myself,
    and that if he was going to find someone else - there would be little
    I could do to prevent it, except with my jelousy I could push him
    away. 
    
    The best solution I found, is honesty, aslong as he tells you where
    hes going with whom, and that if you want to go along, you can.
     Then its obviously quite innocent.  Now we have no problems, we
    discuss everything, if my jelousy should arise, then its soon
    dispelled.
    
    Best of luck to you.....

    You have to live in the PRESENT not the PAST.  Everyone has had
    ex-boyfriends or ex-girlfriends, it is just a fact of life when you
    meet someone.  But when they put that little gold ring on your finger,
    you know it is YOU that the person loves because YOU are the one with
    the wedding band.  Just dont think about past loves, because they are
    part of the "past"!
    
    Lynne :-)

    I found that it helped to think, "Well, Neil is a wonderful,
    caring man with a warm heart, and he had the good taste to pick me
    out of the crowd.  And since he's such a wonderful, caring person
    with such good taste, his ex-girlfriends must be nice people too,
    because someone as nice as he is wouldn't hang around with jerks."
    
    And it turned out I was right -- one of his ex-girlfriends is
    still a good friend of both of us.
    
    A lot of my jealousy stemmed from fear that I wasn't good enough,
    that he was going to leave me if he found something better.  But
    that's pretty insulting to him, to think he's so shallow that he's
    only on the lookout for the best deal, and it rested on my own low
    self esteem -- believing that most any other woman I met was
    somehow "better" than me.  
    
    --bonnie

    Dear All,
    
    Thanks a lot for your comments. Sorry that I didn't answer any earlier
    but I haven't been to the office for almost 6 weeks.
    
    To keep you updated: A few days after this phone call I was again at my
    fiancee's appartment and saw a piece of paper on his desk with some
    woman's name and telephone number on it. I said something like:" L.? Is
    this a  friend of yours, sombebody I'm going to meet?" and he answered:
    "L. is a friend of C., the woman I told you about, and she asked me to
    call her because she needed some help with a video. But I know that
    this is only a trick to get in touch with C. again, this woman really
    tries everything to get me back, even though I've told her that we
    won't see each other anymore. Therefore I don't have any intention to
    call L.!"
    
    Well. I know, I should have asked: "Why did you put down the phone
    number then?" I couldn't. I should have told him what's going on in my
    mind - I couldn't! I know that he would be hurt that I don't trust him
    enough and so on, I really don't dare to tell him!
    
    And you know where this leads to (and this is something I experienced
    during the last years over and over.....)? I'm sitting at home,
    thinking about the whole story, feeling this fear and frustration ....
    and finding again my way to the cookie-box! And then I'm telling myself
    that I'm already fat and not half as pretty as this C. (or who-ever)
    and another piece of chocolate finds its way to my stomach ..... It's
    kind of a  circle, you know?
    
    The worst thing of all is that I don't have anybody to talk to. I mean,
    there are a lot of "friends", people I go out with, but there is nobody
    I would tell my innerst feelings to. Some of you said I should contact
    a counselor. Well, yea, I think that could help, but in the country I
    live this is not so common like in the US, there are only a few and
    these few are so expensive that a "normal person" cannot afford going
    there. But today I'll have my first lesson in "autogenous training", I
    think this might help, too. Does any of you have experience in this?
    
    Thanks again for listening to me, and any comments are welcome!
    

>>    Well. I know, I should have asked: "Why did you put down the phone
>>    number then?" I couldn't. I should have told him what's going on in my
>>    mind - I couldn't! I know that he would be hurt that I don't trust him
>>    enough and so on, I really don't dare to tell him!

You should have told him what's going on - he'll figure it out anyway, and
to me, at least, jealousy really annoys me. Why did he write down the phone
number? I don't know. Why would I have written it down? Because when someone
starts to give me a phone number, I automatically write it down. Why don't I
then throw it out after I get off the phone? Same reason I don't throw out
junk mail & other stuff - I'm messy. And if it makes it into my phone book,
then even if I never intend to call it, the number's likely to be there
for years.

Silly question - why don't you trust your fiancee enough to tell him?  
Do you have any siblings you could talk to?  Parents?  Aunts?  Uncles?
Friends you could promote to "close friend"?

What is autogenous training?

    	Not too long ago, I was put in a situation where I could have felt
    jealous; in fact, I think that a few years ago, I probably would have.


    	But I didn't, and later I tried to figure out *why*.  The only
    thing that I could come up with is that jealousy has its roots in
    feelings of inadequacy.  Sure, other factors such as trust can have an
    affect on whether you feel it or to what degree you feel it, but self-
    confidence seems to be the root.


    	I just got through rereading the replies in this note, and it would
    seem that others feel the same way.  Gee, this introspection stuff
    really works.  ;-)


    	I think Diana hit the nail on the head -- discover yourself, and
    your good points and learn to like/love yourself and these negative
    emotions that we're prone to having at times are less likely to come
    up.


    Brian