Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    I will give my advice to you as a man.  Let your heart be your guide.
    If this is meant to be it will happen.  One of the most improtant
    things in any relationship is trust and communication between you
    both.  My first marriage fell apart after fourteen years and three
    kids.  My second marriage (old high school sweetheart) is as strong as
    ever and we have moved 5 times in 8 years.  Let your heart help to 
    make the decision on what to do.  I should have listened to my heart 22
    years ago.
    
    Good luck,
       Denny..
    

    Can you move down there without marrying him - just have an engagement? 
    Can he get some counseling and work these feelings through?  I think
    moving down there may be good so you can work through his feelings (and
    he can work 'em through with a counselor maybe) - but getting married
    may really force the issue and discomfort so much it may be a bad
    thing right now, rather than a good one.  Can you be committed, yet not
    married?  Can you discuss the possibility of living together while
    engaged - until he feels more comfortable or you come to some sort of
    resolution?
    
    -Jody
    

    If people would take the time to get into counseling in a premarital
    position it would prevent alot of the problems after the knot is tied. 
    Having been married once before and leaving on a very bad note I didn't
    think it possible to really be happy again.  When that new "special"
    someone came into my life I was scared to.  The secret for us was to
    talk...to each other....to our pastors......to friends.  Communication
    breeds the relationship....feelings discussed will create the bonds to
    endure the trials down the road.  Find out what your strengths are up
    front rather than waitin until you hit the rought water.
    
    
    Gary

    Since you are unsure, and getting into DEC these days is pretty tough,
    have you thought of taking a (6-month) leave of absence? that way if
    you test the waters and they are too cold you can always come back.
    Making decisions like this are often even scarier if you don't have
    a safety net to fall back on.

    
    One of the key things in a relationship is communication.  Talk to each
    other no matte rhow tired or how horrible you feel.  The fact that he
    is telling you all this is a good sign for truth and stability.
    
    A military lifestyle for the spouse is never easy - it involves lots of
    packing and unpacking. Make sure oyu can deal with that type of
    lifestyle and be sure of yourself.
    
    Another thing - avoid wife "cliques", they are disguised as coffee
    breaks amongst the wives.  Most of these women spend half their time
    speculating and cauing doubt to raise in seemingly faithful marriages.
    Military divorce rate is high but if you two work together and stay
    committed firstly to each other then it will work.
    
    Good luck and let us know what happens.
    
    D

    This is a reply from the anonymous base noter.
    
    __________________________________________________________________________
    
    
    
    I'm am so glad that I submitted that note.  Even though nothing has
    really been resolved yet (its only been a day since the entry), I feel
    so much  better.  I really didn't want to talk to anyone that knew the
    both of us.  We  both feel its important to try and resolve our
    problems without dragging family  and friends into it for obvious
    reasons.  Although I knew I had to talk about  it to someone that, like
    I said in the base not, would be objective.  

    All of your suggestions were helpful.  RE: 1 & 3 - I think I will
    follow my  heart and I also feel that he does need to talk to someone
    that may be able to  help him get over this fear of his.  I have
    suggested that he talk to his pastor  but I think it would be a good
    idea if, at some point, I join the two of them.   RE: 4 -
    Unfortunately, I just came back from a 1 month LOA in August, but I've 
    talked to the personal manager about getting another one and he is
    going to look  into it.  Maybe that way I can consider moving there so
    we can take our time  before getting married and not feeling that I've
    given up everything "just in  case" (RE: 2).
                                       
    RE: 5 - My father was in the Army so I have been exposed to the
    military life  for a good portion of my life.  

    Once again, thank you for all your suggestions.  I can talk to him now
    with a  different perceptive on things.  I think it was there all the
    time but a just a  little clouded.  

    

    To the basenoter:
    
    Some tough questions:
    
    >I want to be supportive, understanding,and work his feelings through
    with him
    
    Do you see your role in this relationship as Joe's counselor?  It's not
    your responsibility to work "his" feelings through with him- that's his
    responsibility.  If you perceive that things need to be worked through
    between you, _please_ seek professional help.
    
    Do you think that being supportive and understanding will make a
    difference in Joe's behavior and feelings?  It won't.  You can't change
    him; only he can change him. Why do you want to enter into a marriage
    that "depends" on you emotionally and psychologically supporting both 
    yourself and your partner?  (This is not to suggest that marriage
    doesn't mean supporting each other, but good marriage means mutually
    supporting each other and I don't hear that here.)
    
    >(Joe)thought it (second marriage) was going to be different this time
    >things will be different
    
    Why will things be different?  Joe sounds like he's telling you he's
    afraid of commitment, and also telling you he's not very good at it
    (two marriages undertaken without, apparently, a real understanding of
    the commitment and work involved in making a marriage work).  Now you
    have this long-distance relationship with Joe, and the closer you get
    time-wise to making it an in-person relationship, the scared-er he
    gets.
    
    >whenever he felt himself getting too close, he would pull away or do
    something that might piss me off enough to break up with him, which I
    have
    
    What do YOU get out of this relationship?  To me, you sound like you're
    saying something like "I plan to stick with him through thick and thin, 
    no matter what 'tests' he puts me through"?  To me, you sound like
    you're saying your support will make the difference in Joe.  To me, you
    sound like you're very dependent on Joe and this relationship.  Again, I
    circle around to- what are YOU getting out of this relationship?  You
    mentioned that you two "have fun", but most of your note is taken up
    with Joe and his problems.
    
    >he doesn't drink anymore so alcohol isn't an issue
    
    BIG, LOUD BELLS go off in my head when I hear this.  Whether he
    actively drinks now or not, alcohol and the behaviors that relate to
    drinking will, in all probability, always be an issue for Joe and
    with anyone he has a relationship with. Your note suggests that alcohol
    has been an identified problem for Joe in the past.  Don't kid
    yourself- it doesn't magically go away when the drinking stops.
    
    Also, you didn't mention your parents' marriage at all.  Do you see any
    parallels between your parents and what you are "going through" with
    Joe?
    
    From all that you've said, I personally would be very reluctant to
    recommend that you two get together.  I hear lots of messages from Joe
    that he's not good at commitment, and lots of messages from you that
    you feel you can make the difference for him; and I worry about any
    relationship where these issues are at the base of it.
    
    I _do_ wish you well with whatever decision you make.
    
    Lynn