Conference quark::human_relations-v1

Nope, I didn't enjoy it or appreciate it.  Sorry, I gave up self-pity
and martyrhood along time ago.

Mikki (a single gal who really enjoys it)

    Re .1:
    
    ...did you also give up sympathy and empathy for other points of view?
    
    Pam
    

    That article is sad.
    
    I have lived alone for about half of my adult life. I have been
    a parent for about a third of it. I have come to a conclusion. 
    
    Married people are no happier than single people. Single people
    are no happier than married people. Happiness is found in one
    self. It's a "gut" thing.
    
    Kate
    

    re .0,
    
    Well written.
    
    Eugene

    I can relate.
    
    Although I'm happy being single, there are those times when ...
    
    But the last paragraph says it all.  You have to be happy with
    *yourself*.  Then everything else falls into place!
    
    Tammi (who_doesn't_see_this_as_a_self-pitying_note_at_all)
    

    I've found that some people simply don't understand that being alone is
    not only survivable, but enjoyable.  Being alone doesn't necessarily
    mean being lonely.  I'm quite happy with my own thoughts much of the
    time and I will resent any distractions and interruptions.  Some people
    enjoy just sitting around, thinking, reading, dreaming, whatever. 
    These are all things that are best done alone, to reduce distractions. 
    (They can be done in company, but introspection in the presence of
    others is considered rude unless you have "permission" from your
    companions to indulge.)
    
    This is not to say I'm a complete hermit.  If I want company, I go out
    and find it or I accept an invitation.  But if I don't want company, I
    don't want anyone trying to "guilt" me into being sociable because they
    have expectations that I didn't commit to.

    I'm one of those people who loves to be alone - prefers it, actually!
    I've lived alone most of my adult life and love it.  You seem to
    understand it well when you say no one can *make* you happy.  And
    that's so true.  Most people have their own lives and their own
    agendae and it usually isn't to make *you*, (or me or anyone in
    particular), happy.  That's what makes love so special - it's a
    force that changes that so that we DO want to live attempting to
    make another person happy.  If you're simply longing for love, join
    the masses.  Nearly everone is longing for love.  If you're longing 
    for recognition/validation from the masses, forget it.  They're too
    busy spinning their wheels trying to get the same thing.  If neither,
    then perhaps it's a simple case of the grass being greener elsewhere.
    
    My first thought in your situation would have been how miserable
    that couple must be.  I know when I'm with a man I love, I have little 
    desire to swear and scream at strangers.  I would have smiled at the 
    couple, (ok, ok, maybe smirked!), and thanked my lucky stars that by
    being alone I didn't have the nastiness in my life they obviously had
    in theirs, and even better, that I still had the *hope* of love and
    happiness that they had surrendered to their coupled misery.  I still
    had all my doors open.  I was free and ready to accept what life had
    to offer.  And in fact that's how I do feel.  And I love it. 
    
    To tell you the truth, I think being in love and being out of love is 
    pretty much the same thing; the transition periods are the times of 
    elation and excitement.  The joys of falling in love are obvious, but
    I always feel the same sense of excitement when love ends.  I feel re-
    freshed, recharged, ready to go back into the world and see what's out 
    there.  When you're in love, you have one man.  When you're not, you
    can have all of them!  So take the world by the balls and *be* what
    your coupled friends consider "threatening".  You can believe that
    you're more sad and lonely than the screaming couple, (which I seriously
    doubt!), or you can be someone else's "green grass"!

.6>    I've found that some people simply don't understand that
.6>    being alone is not only survivable, but enjoyable.

This is very true. Being one of these people, maybe I can explain
why. 

Sure, I too enjoy **occasions** of spending time alone, in my own
space. Just like you, I "enjoy just sitting around, thinking,
reading ... whatever.". 

But, that's not what 'being alone' really means to me. 'Being
alone' means that one has no soul mate, no one to turn to when one
really needs a friend. 

This friend is not some acquaintance to help me pleasantly while away
the time. It's a person with whom I share complete, irrevocable
trust, total understanding and an ultimate affinity. Personally, I
need one around; preferably, on a daily basis, but, at least, often. 

I can easily understand how not having such a person can be
survivable, but cannot understand how it can also be enjoyable. I
know people who are 'alone' (my definition) and some of them must
enjoy it, because they do have a choice. So, I do acknowledge their
choice, but do not understand it. 

Have you ever tried to explain to a blind person exactly how white
is milk?  :-). 

-- Ron 

re.- 2  My reply to the base noter was not an attempt on my part to be rude.
        just honest IMO.   I just get days where society gets to me....on 
        living alone or god forbid, not being in love.  It is not a retarded
        emotional condition, and actually *some* people survive quite well..
        I do.

re. 7  That was wonderful.  I feel so good when I know there are others out-
       there who enjoy life ...'Just the way it is'  terrific

Meredith

<This friend is not some acquaintance to help me pleasantly while away
<the time. It's a person with whom I share complete, irrevocable
<trust, total understanding and an ultimate affinity. Personally, I
<need one around; preferably, on a daily basis, but, at least, often. 
    
    Ron, you said it. I too have times when I want to be alone. I also
    have times when I want someone that provides the special company
    that only a lover can provide.

    It always makes me feel tacky to admit that though I have friends
    and family that love me, it's just not enough. It is not the same as
    a lover and never will be. I'm tired of all the flip answers about
    how I must not be a full human being if I need another in my life.
    My life is full, I do all sorts of things and I STILL want someone
    who is special in my life as a lover. liesl
    

>    It always makes me feel tacky to admit that though I have friends
>    and family that love me, it's just not enough. 

 You don't need to feel tacky. It's a natural reaction. I've felt it before.
I hate to say "you shouldn't feel that way." I don't know how else to say it.

>It is not the same as
>    a lover and never will be.

 That's why it's so natural to feel incomplete without someone intimate to share 
yourself with.

>I'm tired of all the flip answers about
>    how I must not be a full human being if I need another in my life.
>    My life is full, I do all sorts of things and I STILL want someone
>    who is special in my life as a lover.

 You are entitled to live your life your way. People that tell you that you
"aren't a whole person" unless you are happy by yourself are projecting their
feelings onto your life. If they can feel complete all alone, more power to 'em.
But that doesn't mean that you are any less whole or complete because your
experiences differ.

 The Doctah

    re .10
    	Liesl, I agree with you entirely.
    
    	And then there are the times when the lover doesn't give you
    	the emotional support you need, and you have to find it with
    	your friends, or give it to yourself...sigh...
    
    	P.

    Re: .11
    
    >If they can feel complete all alone, more power to 'em.  But that
    >doesn't mean that you are any less whole or complete because your 
    >experiences differ.
    
    Now, if I could just see more people applying this philosophy to the
    "other side" -- the people who enjoy being alone.  It's only recently
    that "dependency" has been seen as harmful (but then anything taken to
    an extreme is harmful).  Do you realize how socially unacceptable it is
    to say "I want to be alone"?  There are two common reactions:
    
    1.  "Oh, what's wrong?"  Wanting to be alone is seen as a symptom that
    you have a problem.  If you were "okay" you'd *obviously* want to be
    around people.
    
    2.  "Oh, fine, be that way, don't let *me* bother you."  You must be
    rejecting them, since no company is preferable to their company.
    
    I've seen a personality evaluation that rates the individual in six
    categories:  intellectual, artistic, social, entrepreneurial, clerical,
    and practical (rough approximation).  The last two deal more with
    things, the middle two deal more with people, the first two deal more
    with ideas.  There are other connections, of course, but those are the
    ones that are relevant.  People who rate highly in the middle two
    categories really want to be around other people.  People who rate
    highly in the other categories are primarily interested in other
    things; being around people isn't as interesting as something else.

>    Now, if I could just see more people applying this philosophy to the
>    "other side" -- the people who enjoy being alone. 

 It isn't terribly easy for most people to understand that people's differences
work well for them. 

 As a heterosexual man, it is difficult to understand that other men could
actually _not_ like to have sex with women and actually prefer sex with other
men. But it happens, and doesn't necessarily mean that something is wrong with
these other men.

 I personally like to strike a balance between being with other people and being
alone. I don't always want other people around. And there are sometimes when
I really don't want to be alone.

 I think that most people tend to try to identify what they see with what they
are, and being unable to do so (in some cases) leads them to believe that
something is somehow amiss with the other person. 

 Learning to identify differences as simple variations as opposed to aberrations
is key to accepting other people for what they are.

 The Doctah

    Liesl, I too agree with you.
    
    Then there have been times when there has been someone in my life and
    I've felt more alone with them than without them.  There have been
    times I've tried to figure out what will make someone happy and driven
    myself, as well as them, slightly nuts because you can't make someone
    happy and they can't make you happy.....I guess in some ways it's all a
    state of mind and when it "clicks" your inner self is content. I'm 
    basically a loner, but with the right person.......
    
    As my mother used to say, "Life is what you make it."
    
    P.
    

    Seems like the people who like being alone feel pressured into being a
    couple, and the people who like being in a couple feel pressured into
    being happy being alone!
    
    I'm personally with .8 and .10.  There's been a lot written on the
    difference between being alone and being lonely.
    
    Take this week, for example.  I'm single.  I'm generally very happy
    with my life:  I love my friends, they love me, I do what I want to do
    with my time.  
    
    I spent last night alone in my apartment, exactly the way I wanted to: 
    didn't turn on the TV, listened to my favorite tapes, lit some lovely
    smelling candles, and curled up on the couch with my cat and an afghan,
    reading a book.   Peaceful, wonderful aloneness.
    
    But on a different day this week, I was SO GLAD when I heard my
    roommate's key in the lock.  I wanted to talk to her, find out how
    she'd spent her vacation day, find out what happened with her friend,
    tell her about my day.  I was fine before she came in, but even happier
    when she arrived.  
    
    And on still a different day, I called my friend who moved to Amherst,
    and wailed, "I'm so LONELY!!!"  I desperately miss, sometimes, having a
    special partner to go through life with.  Seeing other people around me
    who have found their partner can be hard, when I am in that mood.  I
    feel *jealous*, OK?!!  
    
    If you found the article in .0 self-pitying, read the last few
    paragraphs of it again.  This person is not saying "I want someone,
    anyone, please, I am so desperate!"  This person is saying "I want
    someone with whom I am my best self; someone who is their best self
    with me."  I can relate to that.  A partner is not a magic pill to cure
    loneliness, but they do have a relationship with you that is closer
    than friends (who you chose but you are not "bound" to) and family (who
    you are "bound" to but do not choose).
    
    Pam