| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 867.1 | Don't take his money, or his company | CREDIT::SSMITH | | Fri Oct 13 1989 15:23 | 24 |
| Sarah,
If you read my last note under a wedding topic, you'll see that people
included in the wedding party, who make a fuss about the brides plans,
are one of my biggest beefs.
You don't state any reason why your father feels he can not walk down
the aisle with you and your mother. It seems to me that he is just
being difficult, and should respect your wishes. After all, this is
your wedding day and it should be the way you want it to be.
I am not familiar with Jewish customs, but can not see why any person
would refuse to do what their daughter requested on her wedding day.
He will only be walking down the aisle for a minute or less. Is that
too much to give to his daughter?
I'm not suggesting that you do so, but if I were in this position, and
my father was threatening not to pay for the wedding, I would kindly
tell him what to do with his money. I would scale down my wedding if
necessary for financial reasons, and go on from there.
Good luck on whatever road you choose. I'm sure that things will work
out for the best.
ss
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| 867.2 | | ACESMK::CHELSEA | Mostly harmless. | Fri Oct 13 1989 15:30 | 28 |
| Re: .0
Find out exactly what it is that bothers your father about it, if you
don't know already, and what exactly he wants. It sounds like he
believes that this request would be a slur to his wife or would imply a
relationship to your mother that he doesn't have.
Frankly, I'm not sure I understand his objections. You want to be
given away by your parents. He is your father. She is your mother.
They are your parents. Regardless of divorce, remarriage or whatever,
that has not changed and will not change. If he refuses to walk down
with you and your mother, he is in essence refusing to accept your
mother as your mother or else denying his role as your father.
Acknowledging these relationships is not an insult to his wife.
Granted, she's not explicitly included in these relationships, but how
could she be? It's not insulting to her to recognize that he had a
life and responsibilities and relationships before he married her.
Since you want to include her in the procession, you are explicitly
recognizing her relationship to you and your father. She's not your
parent (unless you think of her as one, but it sounds like you don't),
so she doesn't have a claim to a parent's position. As the wife of
your father, she does have a claim to be recognized and included and
you've acknowledged that claim.
On the other hand, denying the parental relationships is an insult to
you and your mother. Since there's no animosity, there's no motive for
doing this.
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| 867.3 | I'm on YOUR Side ... | MAMTS2::TTAYLOR | Life Goes On, and On, and ... | Fri Oct 13 1989 15:37 | 26 |
| Sarah:
Oh my, I can't believe he is objecting to tradition. His refusal
to follow tradition indicates to me that he is not even willing
to acknowledge that you are his daughter.
This is your big day. I pray that he won't spoil it for you. I
sort of know what you're going through, my parents are divorced
and my father was very hurt when I was to be married at one time
and asked my step-dad, who raised me, to walk me down the aisle
instead of him.
Your dad should be proud of the fact that he fathered you. At one
point in time, your mother meant a lot to him, just because he's
married to another (and you said there was no acrimony in their
relations) does that mean he has to sever all ties and deny his
fatherhood?
Hope he takes your wishes to heart. If he doesn't, who cares if
he won't pay for the wedding, as someone said earlier, just scale
it down a bit and don't include him if he can't respect your wishes.
Good luck and happy wedding (or is it Mazel Tov?)
Tammi
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| 867.4 | Don't be a dark cloud on a sunny day! | ASABET::M_KELLEY | | Fri Oct 13 1989 15:43 | 20 |
| I agree with .1 about the threat of not contributing money towards the
wedding. I personally would prefer a smaller wedding than one financed
by someone who did not really want to contribute. I guess I have a
stubborn streak, but regardless of the outcome, I probably would not
use the money at all, even if he walks you down the aisle. I think of
a gift as something given freely and with no strings attached.
Have you spoken to your father about this in front of your stepmother?
It sounds as though he is worried about insulting her by walking with
you and your mother, it might be possible that she would not feel that
way at all and he is worried about something that is not true. (I also
understand this may not be something you wish to discuss in front of your
stepmother.)
Good luck in whatever the outcome. I am getting married in May and I
am beginning to realize how important these things are. It is a shame
that you have to deal with this sort of thing right now. A wedding is
a time for so much happiness and if only people really knew how much of a
dark cloud they put over a happy occaision when they do things like this
maybe they would stop and think it over. Again, good luck.
|
| 867.5 | | VMSSG::NICHOLS | Herb -CSSE support for VMS at ZK | Fri Oct 13 1989 16:23 | 8 |
| I think you have to accept what your father says. His reasons for
behaving this way may be suspect (I believe they are), and it certainly
is the case that it is your wedding, but if that is his position I
really don't see an alternative. The implied threats of withholding
money etc, seem like a particularly strong message
Might be helpful to involve the Rabbi.
|
| 867.6 | Voluntary all around | SIETTG::HETRICK | | Fri Oct 13 1989 17:44 | 16 |
| It is your father's right to decline to walk down the aisle with
you. His stated reasons for so declining are sufficiently odd that
wondering whether they are in fact his reasons is certainly
understandable, but whatever his reasons are, action on his part is
voluntary.
It is also your father's right to decline to help cover the
expenses of the wedding. His stated reasons for "threatening" to so
decline are sufficiently odd that the above remarks apply here also --
action on his part is voluntary.
Of course, it is also your right to decline to invite your father
to the wedding -- action on your part, too, is voluntary. You may
want to consider whether this possibility makes sense in the context.
Brian Hetrick
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| 867.7 | | SCARY::M_DAVIS | Marge Davis Hallyburton | Fri Oct 13 1989 17:50 | 9 |
| Try talking to your stepmother... let her know it means a lot to you,
and that your Dad is worried about hurting her feelings. I'm sure that
if she tells him she supports the idea, he'll be more inclined to do
the traditional thing.
In either case, have a wonderful wedding and an even better marriage!
grins,
Marge
|
| 867.8 | There's Nothing Like Maturity! | HENRYY::HASLAM_BA | Creativity Unlimited | Fri Oct 13 1989 19:34 | 19 |
| Although it may not be your first choice, it may be better to just
have your mother walk down the aisle with you. At least, she is
having the decency to consider your feelings before her personal
objections. Rather than cause a scene with your father acting out
his hostility in passive aggressive ways, it might well be the simplest
way out.
Is there a brother or close male relative or friend who
would be willing to stand in for your father? That's another
possibility to consider. It might also bring home the message to
your father that while considering his wishes, you are still going
ahead with your own plans. This is YOUR special day. Perhaps you
father can still grow up enough to come to his senses before the
wedding.
Best Wishes for a happy life together.
Barb
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| 867.10 | Another vote for the rabbi | SSDEVO::CHAMPION | Letting Go: The Ultimate Adventure | Sat Oct 14 1989 13:37 | 12 |
| Perhaps you should share this problem with your rabbi, as suggested
in a previous note, and ask him to reason with your father on your
behalf.
You and your family are, understandably, under emotional strain right
now and it may be wise to involve the rabbi, or another well-respected
neutral third party to help smooth things over.
Best wishes for making dreams come true!
Carol
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| 867.11 | Weddings are not what they use to be | PENUTS::JLAMOTTE | J & J's Memere | Sun Oct 15 1989 22:27 | 16 |
| Weddings are fun, a time of celebration and great joy for most parents
and I feel somewhat miffed at the comment that they bring out the worst
in people usually parents.
There are two elements to a wedding that differ a great deal from
thirty years ago. We continue rituals that no longer signify
the reality of the situation. The people marrying are usually well-
established in adulthood for one and many parents of adult children are
no longer married to their children's mother or father for the other.
It is my feeling that it makes sense to look at the circumstances and
determine if the ritual you want to observe makes sense in the given
situation. Did the father indicate what he would like to happen, it is
possible that he has an idea that would be acceptable to him and would
reflect reality.
|
| 867.12 | | VMSSG::NICHOLS | Herb -CSSE support for VMS at ZK | Mon Oct 16 1989 14:19 | 6 |
| working through the issue is best -if possible.
If *that* doesn't work, I think the suggestion of another male
particularly a brother is *super*. It also serves to give your father
the slap in the teeth that he deserves for being so selfish and
malicious at *your* wedding. (if you aren't prepared to give him a
slap in the teeth, the suggestion of another male may not be so great)
|
| 867.13 | | ACESMK::CHELSEA | Mostly harmless. | Mon Oct 16 1989 17:56 | 11 |
| Re: .0
>I told him that I would enter a note here, and see what the general
>public had to say.
It sounds like you might be using this forum to gather evidence of "I'm
right." I don't know if that's the case. If it is, be careful of
using it. Browbeating him into the "right" attitude is probably not
going to work. If he does yield to pressure, his heart won't be in it
and it won't be what you want. He has to believe he's doing the right
thing.
|
| 867.14 | What message is Dad driving? | SALEM::MELANSON | nut at work | Tue Oct 17 1989 12:11 | 8 |
| What is driving your father's message? What is he really saying?
I agree that he is being selfish, but why, if you can get under
this maybe you can resolve a conflict. Dont play his game and
dont let yourself be a victim of his bitterness, get on with your
plans even if you have to scale back a bit.
Good luck
Jim
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| 867.15 | Good Luck | THOTH::MCNEIL | | Tue Oct 17 1989 19:00 | 31 |
| .
I guess I'd have to agree with some of the other replies in this
note, as far as talking to your Rabbi...especially if your Dad respects
him and his ways...he maybe able to help talk to your Dad...
Also..the idea of talking to your stepmother is a good one..she should
be able to work on your Dad to try and get him to understand that
its important to you to have your PARENTS (both of them) give you
away.
On that note: (PARENTS)
I was pretty lucky in my situation. My parents were also divorced
and my father remarried... and he did walk me down the aisle. But
my quest came when they do the announcing of the wedding party at
the reception. You know,when everyone gets announced and forms
the receiving line...? My (ex) husbands parents were announced
seperatly...(they had had bitter feelings...)....but my parents
were announced as "the brides PARENTS...Mr. John McNeil and Ms.
Esther McNeil"... I had asked them to do it for me, and although
my father was remarried with 3 new children...they agreed with no
problems. Because they were in fact MY PARENTS. They may not be
each others MATES anymore...but they are still, and always will
be....YOUR parents.
I hope it all works out for you....and you have a wonderful wedding
whatever the outcome.
Chris
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| 867.16 | *sigh* | CURIE::LEVINE | Insert Witty Remark Here | Wed Oct 18 1989 13:40 | 34 |
|
I want to thank everyone for their responses. This is indeed quite
upsetting to me. I intend to ask a rabbi's opinion - once I've
contacted one for the wedding. We aren't getting married for another
two years, but since I had a feeling that there would be a problem, I
brought this up with my father fairly early on. I'm going to tell him
the kind of responses I've received. As you have probably figured out,
my father is *very stubborn*. Responses in a notes file will not make
him change his mind, but it may help him to understand where I'm coming
from. I'm certainly not getting through to him.
The idea of having another male relative accompany me is a good idea,
but isn't possible (I've already thought about it). Obviously I love
my father alot if I'm getting so worked up about his walking down the
aisle with me! I have decided that if he absolutely refuses, I'll walk
down the aisle alone. This really hurts, and I think he's definitely
doing the wrong thing, but I guess I want him there badly enough that
I'll tough it out.
About the fantasy of having your parents be together again (I'm not
sure if anyone mentioned it here, but I've read that it's common during
a wedding), I don't want my parents back together again. What I do
want is their unconditional love and support on this day. To me, his
refusing to bend on this issue is anything but loving and supporting.
One request I do have of the noting community. Is there anyone out
there who's divorced and has any light to shed on this? I think it
would be helpful to have some better understanding of "the other side
of the issue."
Thanks all,
Sarah
|
| 867.17 | Can't understand him! | BARTLE::GODIN | This is the only world we have | Wed Oct 18 1989 16:35 | 22 |
| Well, Sarah, I'm divorced, but am not sure I can shed any light
on this. I've been thinking about your problem ever since you entered
the base note, and I asked myself, if/when I'm in your parents'
shoes, what would I do?
My divorce started out friendly and rapidly turned bitter. Today we
can hardly be civil to each other while we handle the necessary
details of parenthood. We've both remarried, so we have two step-
parents to factor into the equation. STILL, when my children get
married, if they want us to walk down the aisle together, holding
hands, and kissing, I'd do it. Because, as you've pointed out, I'd
be doing it for the child, whom I love and want to please, not for
my ex-husband.
I know it happens, but I find it impossible to comprehend a parent
who would put his/her own problems on the shoulders of the child at
a time like this.
Good luck to you as you seek to resolve this problem to your
satisfaction.
Karen
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| 867.18 | It's not easy | COMET::BOWERMAN | | Wed Oct 18 1989 18:26 | 22 |
| I am also divorced. I do not like to be around my ex because he is
(IMO) ....hard to get along with.
This has not stopped me from arranging trips for her to visit him about
once every two years(he moved away and owes more than $5000 in child
support).I have payed her way by plane and also driven more 300 miles
out of our way so that she could spend 24hrs with him. I will be more
than willing to do whatever she wishes in a marrage cerimony.
I am prepared to ignore his personal conversations and will smile and
be friendly(professonalism is an asset in this situation) and keep
the topics of conversation general.
I have at least 10 years to prepare for this though.
He does not understand that the visits that I arrange are for
her benifit and had the nerve to ask me to admit that I liked
him and when I would not wanted to know why I did not like him..
All in frount of our 9 yr old...I wonder where his mind is sometimes!!
janet
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| 867.19 | | LDYBUG::GOLDMAN | Oops ... There I go again. | Sat Oct 21 1989 22:45 | 26 |
| Hi Sarah,
Well, I thought I'd seek my dad's opinion on this situation
(both my parents are remarried). After re-assuring my dad and
stepmother that, no, I was not planning on getting married in the
very near future :^), my dad told me he'd have no problem with it.
He said that he knew my stepmother would not have a problem with
it either (at which point she joined the conversation and agreed).
Just because they are remarried does not change the fact that they
are my natural parents and would want to be beside me (if that's
how I decided I wanted it to be done).
My stepmother also told me that she'd been to a wedding
recently where the parents were divorced, and the father
remarried. The parents were barely on speaking terms, but they
did walk their daughter down the aisle....
Granted, that doesn't help your situation any. Hearing that
other parents will do it may not change his mind. I'd definitely
talk to your stepmother, too. I can only hope that your dad
realizes just how much this means to you...you do need to really
talk to him and find out what the real issue is.
You know I wish you the best of luck....
amy
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