Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    To me it sounds like your friend was given a gift that was hard for
    her to refuse.  Martha's Vineyard is beautiful at this time of year
    and it will be an enjoyable time for her and her family.  
    
    Although I understand your feelings and the difficulty you will have
    getting together at another time, it would seem that you would be happy
    about her good fortune.  In essence you are asking her to give up the
    whole weekend for four or five hours with your group.
    
    Friendships are give and take...if friends are always making you 2nd
    choice then there is a problem.  If once they choose an exceptional
    opportunity over time with you there are two choices, either decide 
    not to get together or choose a time that is a compromise.
    
    Although I doubt that you inserted the sexual preference of the person
    offering the weekend as a deliberate way of putting her friend in
    Martha's Vineyard down, I find it out of context...What difference 
    does it make?

    
    	I'm not married, nor do I have friends in this type of 
    	situation (married with kids living far away, etc.) but I
    	have remained VERY close to my best friend of 7 years.  She
    	now lives in Florida and I don't get to see her very often.
                                                       
    	I do respect her enough not to monpolize her time when she
    	comes up to visit.  I realize she's got other friends and 
    	things that she'd like to do.  
    
    	On one hand, if she hadn't been home in a year and she DID
    	have plans to go somewhere for a weekend, I would try my 
    	hardest to accomodate her since she is visiting.  (I'm sure
    	there are alot of other people who'd like to spend time 
    	with her).
    
    	Just my two pennies.
    
    	Tigga~~~
        
    	
                    

    RE .1
    
    To clarify, the sexual preference of this other friend only relates
    to the fact that yes, he has offered this "gift", but has done so in
    what we (the group) consider to be sort of a manipulative way...
    that is, he gets to spend the entire weekend with these friends if
    he takes them away to his Martha's Vineyard property.  Yes, I'm sure
    it's appealing, but they have been there many times before, like
    last year when they came home for a couple of weeks.
    
    Another time he offered them an all-expense paid cruise for a week,
    this couple and another.  I understand that they like to take advantage
    of these wonderful opportunities, but does it have to be every year
    at the expense of these folks not seeing other local friends?
    
    I understand that it is this couples' choice to go to MV, so I guess
    just have to accept that they choose to spend their time that way.
    
    Thanks for the perspective.
    Beth

I'm even more confused now.  I wasn't going to say anything about the fact that 
you referred to the person offering the weekend in a cottage on Martha's
Vineyard as being gay, since another reply had already mentioned the apparent
inappropriateness of your having mentioned that person's sexual preference.

You stated that "To clarify, the sexual preference of this other friend only
relates to the fact that yes, he has offered this "gift", but has done so in
what we (the group) consider to be sort of a manipulative way... that is, he
gets to spend the entire weekend with these friends if he takes them away to his
Martha's Vineyard property."

It sounds to me as though you (the group) might be resenting the fact that the
visitors chose to spend a weekend in a cottage on Martha's Vineyard with a gay
friend as opposed to spending the time running around trying to see each person
in "the group" for an hour or two.

Would it make a difference if the person with whom they're spending that weekend
was heterosexual instead of gay, and if not then why did you mention that fact?

Also, was it made clear to "the group" that no visitors would be allowed at the
cottage during that weekend?  If not, what is to prevent your going out there to
see your friends?

I personally would make the effort to see my friends during the week.

					Larry
					  ~

	 Perhaps one thing that needs to be realized here is that
	 friendship is not a selfish thing......

	 Your friend can't see every one of her friends in one week.
	 I can pretty much equate her trip to when I go to Mass to
	 visit people...I don't tell too many people, because if I
	 did, everyone would be vieing for the time that I have that
	 is very limited.  I can't possibly spend all my time with
	 everyone.....

	 and consessions have to be made, and sometimes that involves
	 not being able to spend time with everyone that is important
	 to you...but that doesn't make the friendship any less
	 strong.....

	 try and work with your friend to get some time
	 together...that is going to mean you are going to have to
	 make concessions as well....realize that you can't monopolize
	 your friend's time......

	 kath

I have several faraway friends and when they're in town, they're usually
trying to see several people and do several things in a very short time.
So I generally leave the planning up to them, and see them at their
convenience.  I would certainly *never* assume that they would
automatically be reserving time on the weekend to see me, unless we
had arranged it far in advance.

I don't find your friend's friend to be any more manipulative than
you are being by having arranged the party on a weekend without
informing your friend.  On the other hand, if you had planned this
months in advance, cleared the date with her, etc., and happen to hear
that she has made mutually exclusive plans, then it's her tough luck if
she doesn't get to see everyone.  Undoubtedly your friend's friend
works during the week too.  Martha's Vineyard is not exactly a trip you
can take - and enjoy - for a weekday evening, unless you happen to live
in Woods Hole.  And Martha's Vineyard will not be visiting California.
I find it irrelevant that you have young chidren and he (?)doesn't.
If anything, it means his social life is more likely to revolve around 
a network of friends than around family.  All other things being equal, 
I think he has a more compelling argument for the weekend - this time.

If your friend consistently avoids seeing you during her visits East,
then she is in effect stating her priorities.  On the other hand, if you
consistently insist on seeing her at *your* convenience only, then you
are stating *your* priorities.  In friendships, consideration counts for
more than distance or seniority.  Just because she is the one that lives
on the West Coast does not make her the sole one responsible for
maintaining the ties.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but in your original note, there seems to be an
implied undertone of "we're family people and he's gay, so why is she,
a family person, choosing him over us?"  If that's how you feel at heart,
that attitude is probably creating a lot of resentment, and your friend
may feel that you accept her only for who she *was* in high school/college,
and not for the person she is now.

I'm not necessarily indicting you - this is food for thought more than
anything else - but before you drop her from your life, make sure that
what you're telling her is more than just "There are more of us, and we
were here first."  Unless, of course, that's how you feel.

        Sharon
   

       Oh, gee, I Just recieved a letter from my 'best' friend that moved away
   in 1979 to Tampa, Fla.  She has been back to visit acouple times with 
   her new husband, but I haven't seen her in 2 years.   Anyway, her letter
   stated she was up from FLA. 2 months ago  to visit her mom and planned on 
   stopping to see me but she ran out of time.  I felt disappointed but I still
   love her and know her well enough to feel she *really* wanted to see me
   and was honest.  Now isn't that what having a real friend is about?

      I would really try  and go down to see them and if you can't, you can't.
  whether they are green, gay, purple or blue or have 3 big toes...8^)


   Meredith

RE: visiting trips

It seems to me that when people who live far away from each other wish to see
each other, it makes sense for the person doing to most travelling to come out
to the area of the 'friends' and have a comfortable place to roost.  Then who so
ever wishes to see them should make the *short* trip to see them.  It saves the
person who has already made a long trip from exhausting themselves running
around trying to see everyone.  While they would have to make possibly a dozen
runs to see all their friends, the friends only have to make only one trip each
for everyone to see each other.

It also helps to have part of the most accessible time during the trip reserved
for a group event that everyone can show up for, so that at the very least
everyone gets to see everyone at least a little.

To be short; visit your friend coming from the west coast at her convienence.

Jim.

    I'll echo what Jim said.  One thing I enjoy about working in Massachusetts
    is that I get a chance to visit a bunch of friends that I can't easily
    visit when I'm back at school.  Of course, I think it's important that
    you let your friends know that you're coming up, even if it means
    a phone call letting them know that you can't spend much (if any) time
    with them but you called to say hi.  If they're your friends, they'll
    understand, and it's a lot better than having them find out later 
    from someone else.
    
       - Larry

    Okay, everyone, thanks for the words of wisdom.
    
    I've decided to take the Monday off and get together with them in
    the afternoon.  Turns out, the trip to MV was really the only time
    they could see these other friends.
    
    Til next time, thanks.
    Beth