Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Though it's almost a year old, you might want to take a look at note
    1830 (and its responses) in STARCH::SINGLES.  It deals with the same
    topic.
    
    Rich (SINGLES moderator)

    Just my opinion, but lately (within the last year), I have found
    balding men so darn *INCREDIBLY* sexy....  Why I don't know... but give me a
    balding man wearing obsession (or arimis) any day and my heart goes
    a-flutter...
    
    Sigh...
    
    Gale (who will only say she's old enough to appreciate it, and young
    enough to enjoy this new revelation)

    re: .0
    
    Don't feel bad about losing your hair ....
    
   I've dated a few guys my age who I KNOW will be bald early.  I find
    them just as cute and nice as guys with a full head of hair!
    
    It's not what's on top of the head that matters, it's what's *inside*
    the head and the heart that counts!
    
    BTW, I've just turned 27 (and my ex was 35 and quickly losing it!)
    
    Tammi
    
    

    Well I'm married to a man who was bald when I first met him (he
    lost his hair during his sophomore year in college.) Needless to
    say - since we've now been married 22 years - I find him quite
    attractive. (I like kissing him on the top of his head! ;-) ).
    
    A few facts on hair loss. About 1/5 of all men lose their hair
    in their late teens and early twenties, 2/5 lose their hair by
    the time they are 50-60 and 2/5 keep their hair all their life.
    
    One of the contributing factors in male pattern baldness is
    excess testosterone. When I was teaching college I used to tell
    the few young men who were balding that they just had 'more of
    what it takes, than the other guys'. This always guaranteed
    a laugh and seemed to make them feel better.
    
    Male pattern baldness is NOT inherited through the mother. It is
    a sex influenced trait not a sex linked trait (sex linked traits
    are carried on the X Chromosome and include conditions like hemophilia
    and color blindness). Male pattern baldness can be inherited from
    either parent. It occurs less often in women because their testosterone
    levels are lower. (Genetics here are somewhat simplified).
    
    My husband, his two brothers his dad, his 4 uncles, his grandfather
    and many cousins all exhibit male pattern baldness. It makes it
    easy to pick out relatives at get togethers. :-).
    
    Bonnie

    I *strongly* agree with .3.   It's what is inside that counts.
    
    I am currently dating a man who is getting kinda thin on top (he is 
    41) and I don't notice.  I think he is incredible sexy and I assume 
    there is more face to kiss!!!!
    
    Linda 
    
    ps - I'm 27 years old.

    Let me put it this way . . . 
    
    I think Sean Connery is sexier now than he ever was when he was
    playing James Bond.
    
    I like hair, too, but what makes a man sexy isn't his physical
    attributes, it's the total picture of himself and how he seems to
    feel about himself and the world around him.  A bald paunchy
    50-year-old who's at ease with himself and interested in other
    people is infinitely more attractive than a 21-year-old blond god
    who's only interested in his own biceps.
    
    --bonnie, 35

    I must say that currently I find *lots* of hair attractive on a
    man's head, but I certainly don't discriminate against everybody
    else.  I base my appreciation of a man on who they are, not what
    they look like.
    
    I think if men with receding hairlines have fascinating eyes it
    more than makes up for missing hair....the eyes are far more obvious
    then.

    The one thing I can't STAND about certain balding men is that they
    try to hide it.  Face it, it looks kind of silly when someone combs a
    small patch of 15 hairs over a large bald spot and thinks they're
    fooling anybody.  Just be natural, be casual, be comfortable with
    yourself.  
    
    -Jody
    

    
    Current theory says two things are needed to go bald... There is
    basic studies and evidence to support this.
    
    	Male hormones (testosterone) and the genetic predispostion. 
    	Hormone level determines when and how bad, gene determines if
    	it will happen.  This ignores the possibility of diet or 
    	disease as the real cause.
    
    	Delete one or the other and it either baldness does not happen
    	or stops at whatever point its at.

    in re .8
    
    Only a *very* small percentage of baldness is caused by diet or
    disease. 
    
    It is interesting to note that baldness along with arthritis are
    the two favorite conditions for 'quack' cures. Before the recent
    changes in the FDA regulations the market was flooded with a wide
    variety of baldness cures. The major effect of such cures was to
    enrich the seller.
    
    Bonnie

Er, Ah...

If excessive 'hormones' is supposed to cause baldness, does that mean a high sex
drive?  Is frequent sex a cure? :->

Jim.

    I doesn't bother me.  I much prefer balding over someone who needs a
    hair cut.  
    
    Melanie 25

    Yeah, and someone here (sorry, I forget which entry) put something
    about guys who comb these pathetic strands over bald spots.  To
    me, it just makes the spot more noticable and would look a heck
    of a lot better with NO hair!
    
    Just my .02 (again!)
    
    Tammi
    

    in re .10 Jim
    
    Well if my husband is any example (blush) perhaps 'side effect',
    not 'cure'.
    
    :-)

    Why does having hair or not having hair make a difference?  I agree
    with Tammi.  The inside is FAR (double underline) more important than
    the outside.   My father has been bald (and I mean he has less than
    10 pieces of hair) since I was tiny.  I remember when I was little
    thinking my dad was more interesting looking than anyone else's, and
    being grateful that in stores I could find him by looking over the tops
    of counters (he's also very tall) and searching for his head.  If he'd
    had hair I wouldn't have been able to do that.
    
    I don't think anyone really pays attention to balding -- if they do
    than they are to shallow and you wouldn't want to know them anyway.
    So, my advice is don't worry about it!   Sexy is as much how you carry
    yourself and come across as it is how you look.
                                    
    Dawn-Marie
    
    PS. I should add that some of you noters out there probably know my dad
    -- he teaches English at Burncoat High in Worcester.  
                    						

Personally, I don't mind baldness, or find it unattractive, so long as
(as some have already said) you don't try to cover it up!  Ick - just who
do those guys think they are kidding?

My boyfriend is 31, and is just beginning to lose his hair.  (He constantly
complains that a childhood scar that was always covered with hair is now
plainly visible.) I have seen pictures of him before he started losing his
hair, and I think he is much more attractive now.  It also gives him a
wide-eyes innocent kind of look, and I like that.  (I expect he will be
really bald within 10 years.  I don't mind!  :-)

D! (who also things that what is inside is more important, and that if you
    are looking at the outside, body is more important than hair!)

    
    Wow, what a ko-winky-dinky.  Here I was all geared up to put in a note
    about baldness, and what do I find, as I read HR after vacation and
    catch up ?  A note on baldness.
    
    Oh well, I'll say what I was going to say anyway.
    
    I've been bald since soon after college.  I still have thick hair
    in back and around the ears (I still get haircuts), but nothing left
    on top, save for some fuzz.  I imagine the rest will remain, since my
    father is 65 and still has back and side hair too.
    
    What I wanted to write about is an issue of self-consciousness.
    I've noticed I've become more self-conscious and less confident
    regarding my baldness in the last few years, even though I've been
    bald for over 10 years.
    
    I've met all sorts of women, ranging from those that tell me they find
    baldness sexy and find ME sexy, to those that tell me over
    computer mail that they'd rather not meet me because "they think my
    baldness would be a problem".
    
    My experience is that I find myself more afraid that when I meet a
    woman for the first time, particularly one where we've arranged to
    meet but have never yet seen each other, such as a singles ad situation,
    that she'll decide right away that she's unattractive to me because I'm
    bald.
    
    I'm much more comfortable in social situations where I meet the woman
    and strike up a conversation before we ever discuss the possibility
    of "dating".  That way, I feel that my wonderful personality, great
    sense of humor, handsomeness, and healthy physique will prevail
    over the baldness issue.
    
    But I wonder about this increased self-consciousness I've experienced.
    If I encounter both women that find me sexy as a bald man, and women
    that don't, it's too bad that I let the negative ones affect me more
    than the positive ones.
    
    I'm so glad this note is here, and I'd like to hear from other bald or
    balding men.  Are any of you experiencing any confidence problems ? 
    (of course, but I mean, are you willing to share about it)
    
    Dawn, I LOVED your response.  Does this mean there's a chance for us ? :-)
    I still have fond memories of one spontaneous shopping trip.  And whose
    sunglasses are those on the coffee table anyway...
    
    /Eric                                                     

    
    During college days, a friend of mine dated a man who was balding.
    He was five years older than she and although we teased her about
    dating an older man, we never viewed baldness as a turn off.  My
    father was bald at an early age so perhaps I'm biased when I say
    it doesn't affect me.
    
    I have to agree with the previous replies - I'd prefer that a man
    be bald than to have those three strands of hair brushed from the 
    back of the neck up to the forehead.   Of course there are
    hairpieces...maybe it's me but they seem soooo noticeable.  I can't 
    say that I find them a "turn-on."
                         
    Since few women experience balding, I was wondering what women go
    through which would help us understand the effect of balding on
    men.  I don't think having gray hair compares....maybe having
    cellulite and vericose veins????  :-)
    
    
    Kris
                         
                         
    
    
    

      Hi Eric, you've got nothin to worry bout. You're a good looking
      man bald or not. I can't imagine what some of those women must be
      thinking to not want to meet you over that! :*)

      I'm with the ladies that say go for it and be bald rather than try
      to cover it up. That trick never works. I like guys with long hair
      and I like guys that are bald. It's the crew cuts I can't handle,
      makes me think of red necks.

      Also, I'm not too fond of the "greasy kid's stuff" that seems to
      be getting popular again. Yuck, that would feel gross on your face
      and hands if you were kissing. liesl

	I happen to find bald men extremely sexy, except as previously 
	stated, if they comb long strands over their head.

	I was dating and quite serious about a gentleman who is bald - he 
	was 44 I was 36 at the time.  In my eyes, this man is very handsome
	and I am sure that other people think so too, but when I would try
	to tell him this, he did not want to hear it, infact would stop
	me from saying it.  I often wondered if it was an issue that 
	balding men have - the fact they do not consider themselves 
	attractive.  The feeling that I got from him, was he felt that
	I couldn't possibly feel that way and that "I was just saying 
	that" for whatever reasons.

	Angeline

    Re: -.1
    
    Or just the more intelligent part?

    Maybe only women with good taste in men are writing?
    
    Hey, bald men are men, just as men with hair are men, they
    have many differences..but if a woman turns down a man withou
    first getting to know him only because he is bald, then she
    is just as shallow as a man who isn't interested in a woman because
    she is over weight by his standards. So what if he/she could
    have liked you had they taken the time to know you better..
    would you like someone who would reject you for such a superficial
    reason?
    
    Okay, your pool of potentially available mates/dates is smaller..
    
    but is it not preselected into those who are less superficial
    in their reasons for picking a date and thus people who will
    like you for you, not your face and hair?
    
    Bonnie

    I wonder if this issue would even be considered if there weren't
    so much advertising through the media. I'm 42 years old and the
    guys that interest me are smart, humorous and have other desirable
    qualities that are not physical.
    
    Susan

    A number of people here have indicated that they think that
    personality traits are more important than physical traits.
    Fair enough.  But, just to put a slightly different slant on
    the question, lets say that the man in question can appear
    two ways - once as the "before" in a Sy Sperling commercial
    and once as the "after".  That is, *given* that the man has a
    desirable personality, is he better off, more attractive with
    or without a full head of hair?
    
    Steve
    

    	I think most men would look better with a full head of hair.
    
    	And I am more attracted to men with lots of hair than I am
    	to balding men, although that's not an exclusive statement.
    	There are exceptions to everything!
    
    							Carla
    

    This note is being entered for a noter who wishes to remain anonymous.
    
    **************************************************************************


    I prefer to enter this anon so as not to embarass my SO who is a DECie.

    re.24   
    
  >  That is, *given* that the man has a
  >  desirable personality, is he better off, more attractive with
  >  or without a full head of hair?

    That's a good question Steve.
 
    Regarding the before/after shots concept I don't have to imagine I've
    seen the next best thing. My SO has a brother a couple years younger
    then himself. The first time I met him I thought he was 10 years
    younger. Why?, no receeding hairline, no combed over effect. I thought
    he was quite handsome. Not that I don't think my SO is, *but* I accept
    the fact that he wasn't going to turn heads like his brother. Only some
    months later did I learn that his brother had a hair peice/weave or
    what ever. The point being he did look a lot younger and very
    attrative. 

    I'm not a vain person and am comfortable with my SO's looks, but I
    can't help but think about the possibilities of him optimising his
    looks as his brother had done.

    Also, with all the grief that is given to gentleman that resort to
    combing the hair over, how does one graciously make the suggestion to
    ones loved one that the natural look would look better (very sensitive
    topic)?!

    Thanks.
    
          

    I have been reading all of the replies and I would like to add my
    $0.02 cents. A man who feels good about himself and the way he looks
    is very attractive. Someone did mention that lately their confidence
    in their looks had changed and I think that the MEDIA hype has caused
    a lot of this. I think if you asked yourself , what if anything
    has changed about me, and if their is nothing than forget the hype.
    We women all have our opinions and do not let us change how you
    feel about yourself.

    
    I read somewhere that hair is seen as a secondary sexual charactistic.
    Hence all the mythology about how much of it you have in various
    places....
     
    And lots of clean, healthy, beautiful hair is a sensual thing to
    play with no matter which sex you are.
                    
    I would personally be more attracted purely visually to someone
    with lots of hair. But then, how long does just a visual relationship
    last? As soon as you start talking personality cuts in, and that
    overrides *everything*.
    
    As long as you truly believe that you're as attractive/sexy/wonderful
    as (substitute your role model here!) then you will be! It's
    that simple! If you're sexually comfortable and confident then you'll
    be irrisistable - BELIEVE IT!!
                                
    Btw, I'm 29 and have recently suffered a *mega* crush on a highly
    balding 26-year-old. Sigh.
    
    'gail
                          

    Location of hair (chest, chin, whatever) may be a secondary sexual
    characteristic, but hair on the head is supposed to be a species
    marker rather than a gender marker -- it apparently makes sure we
    can differentiate ourselves from other species of primates.
    
    --bonnie

    All-else-being-equal. I'd take the before picture any time. Yul
    Brynner, Kojak, Mr. Clean, I love yo all. Now Uncle Fester is a
    different story.
    
    Kate
    

From the author of .0
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you to all who replied,

	I'm glad to see the same general response from all women, regardless
of age. I'm reassured that the eyes and personality of an individual are 
the truly atractive features that the majority of women look for.

	I've always felt self confident, but I guess I've experienced a 
rash of good natured teasing from friends lately, SO included. Maybe I 
developed a supersensitive response, or they didn't know when to stop. 

PS  	Thanks for the pointer to the note in the SINGLES note conference,
	and for all the sincere replies.

      In response to Steve on before and after. Whether a man looks
      better with or without hair on his head is a matter of his face
      and head shape and size. The same thing goes for beards. On some
      men they look better than a shaven face. I've seen men bald who I
      knew when they had hair and they did look better after in some
      cases but not all. I'd rather see either a hair piece or bald than
      the comb-over look.

      Come to think of it, I care more about whether a guy keeps his
      hair (or head :)) clean than if he keeps his hair. I guess this
      whole topic proves that men are no more immune to worry about
      "looks" than women are. liesl

    Also, in response to Steve in .24, basically I think anybody would
    look better with a full head of hair than without.  But, as someone
    else said, then all the other attributes of looks and personality
    come into play, and in the final analysis, many bald men wind up
    being more attractive than many men with full heads of hair.
    
    Personally, baldness would not stop me from being attracted to somebody
    that had other appealing qualities.   Three of the men I've been
    most attracted to in the past 5 years were either bald or balding.
    
    I think that any physical characteristic that detracts from the
    media's image of a perfect looking person (male & female models
    in glossy ads for clothes or cologne) cuts down a little bit on
    the selection of potential dates a person has.  For example, a bald
    man might have more (and younger) (and more *superficial*) women
    attracted to him if he had a full head of hair.  An overweight person
    of either sex might have more people attractded to him/her if he/she
    lost weight.  A teenager with acne might have more people attracted
    to her/him if her/his complexion cleared up.  A small-chested woman
    (such as myself) might have more men to pick from if she were bigger
    breasted.  All of these physical flaws detract from the media's
    image of what is desirable in looks.  However, as long as we still
    have some people who are attracted to us and we are happy with our
    own appearance, I don't think we should let it ruin our lives that
    we aren't perfect looking.
    
    Personally, I find white or grey hair to be unattractive.  I've
    recently realized that's a hangup of mine.  I think of it as "old,"
    whereas baldness never bothered me.  (as long as what hair there
    is is not white or grey!)
    
    Lorna
    

    Of all the men I've ever dated, the one that will always be the
    "great love of my life" was very balding.  I've dated many men 
    who would be considered far better looking by most standards ...
    but no man has *ever* looked sexier to me that he. 
    
    jacki
    

    I think a lot of it has to do with the guy under the hair no matter
    how you look at it.  Trying not to sound shallow, the first thing
    I notice about a guy is his overall appearance anyway, especially
    their face, I guess, and recently I went on a date with a very nice
    gentleman who wasn't not especially thick on hair--I only noticed
    as an afterthought and didn't give it any thought afterwards!
    
    So, it depends much on the guy, not so much on their hair.
    
    kim

    I, too, am very attracted to men with receding hair lines.  One
    of the great loves of my life was a sax player with just a fringe
    of curly, silky hair.  He was one of the sexiest men I've ever met.
    ...Or maybe it was the sax.  ;-)
    
    Nanci

    
    While away last week at training, I was watching tv at the hotel
    and noticed a commercial for some hair replacement company.  Usually,
    I don't give much thought to such ads but since reading this note,
    I paid closer attention....What hype!!!  It showed the man before
    the hair replacement as being alone and wishing he had hair.  Then after
    the hair treatment--presto!  He has a full head of hair, a nice sports car,
    and a woman by his side.  What more could you ask for??
    
    Is it just me who finds such advertisements as demeaning??
    
    I guess it ranks up there with the diet advertising!
    
    Kris

There is a product made by Nu-Skin (sort of like Mary Kay..you can only get
it from a distributor)...and their shampoo has been proven to stimulate 
hair growth in some balding people.  their skin products have
also been proven to smooth wrinkling and such....(their cream took away
a scar I had from chicken pocks as a child.)

there are some products out there that work......

/kath

    
    saw a commercial the other day that stated....
    
    	"let's face it...going bald is a terrible thing!"
    
    i called the sponsors and thanked them for informing me.
    i had hitherto not realized what a terrible thing i'm experiencing
    and, had they not told me, i might have missed out on yet another
    neurosis.
    :-)
    

    re: .41
    
    Yeah, I know whatcha mean, rik.  I mean, all this time, I've been
    worrying about the heartbreak of psoriasis and dishwasher spots
    on my glassware.  Thank God for Madison Ave; were it not for them,
    I might never exercise my full Constitutional rights to be neurotic.
    
    Steve

    
    
    Let's face it...
    
    Women are told they don't have enough "tit"...or alternately that they
    have too much [sigh]
    
    Men are told they don't have enough hair...
    
    It's a wonder the humna race is still managing to produce offspring
    with all these sub-standard models kicking around...
    
    Anyway...on the topic at hand...[ahhh..heads...bald ones...]
    
    I am convinced that whether one has hair on one's head is [on a scale
    of 1 to 10] about minus 4 (-4) on the improtance rating factor list.
    After all, from where I stand at 4'10"...I would have to suspend
    myself from the ceiling like Mary [what's-her-name] "Peter Pan" to
    even notice it...[grin]...or be laying down, in which case I would
    probably be distracted enough not to care...[chuckle]
    
    On the other hand...if it were *my* head...I am equally convinced that
    these observations would have no bearing about how I felt about it.
    
    No matter how reassuriong it is to have friends/lovers/and aquaintances
    tell one that the attribute that one sports that does not "jive" with
    the socially acceptable "desireable" norm is inconsequential in the
    long run...it still is [hurtful? disconcerting? angering?] to have to
    constantly be bombarded with media hype about your "shortcomings".
    
    FWIW...the day that I look in the mirror and see total perfection
    staring back...I might [*might*] be willing to voice an opionion on
    what I think is OK and not OK in how others look...'till then, my glass
    house is too expensive to fix every time I say something stupid.
    
    Melinda

I have a question for the base noter, who wants the female point of
view on balding: why do you care? would you really want a female who
approved --or disapproved-- of you, based on the amount of hair on
your head? 

Here's one male point of view (my receding hair line is on its way
to meet my back - so I am speaking from the vantage point of
authority): balding is truly terrible; it's a strike against you in
a cruel and unfeeling world. 

On the other hand, my home Rainbow just quit printing, the Insta-Hot
in the kitchen developed a leak last week and my sound system has
started to distort at high levels. As important as it is, my hair
line issue is far outweighed by all these tragedies. As soon as I
fix them (and assuming nothing of importance comes up in the
meantime), I will start worrying about my hair. Unfortunately, in
the past unmpteen years, I haven't achieved this wonderful state of
things. 

RE: women's bust (or lack thereof) as the female counterpart to male
baldness: I sure hope women worry about it no more than I worry
about baldness (as in: "Oh, God, please give me the strength to
change the things I can, the fortitude to live with those I can't
- and wisdom, to know the difference"). 

-- Ron 

    Hi,
    I have followed this discussion and would like to share my views on
    the topic of male baldness.
    The only thing that bothers me about bald men (or balding men) is when 
    they try to hide it.  
    Big deal so they have fewer hairs on their heads!  They still have the 
    same knowledge they had before. They are not suffering from an illness
    (unless they have the type of balding my Dad has in which there is loss
    of hair in patches-I just can not recall the proper medical term right
    now.  This is the type that women can suffer from as well but it is not
    infectious).  They still are healthy (or as much as they did prior to 
    onset of the balding).  They still are the same person they were before.  
    Once a person is born they begin to change, we all continue to change 
    as we mature. I have loved men with little or no hair as often and in
    some cases better than I have loved men with thick hair.  The reasons
    for loving someone have (for me) *absolutly nothing* to do with looks.
    I care about a persons spirit.  If they are *real* *loving* people that
    is the *only* important thing.  
    Only shallow people place a value on a persons outward apperance.  It
    would be the the height of insult if some one told me they loved me 
    just because I was beautiful rather than because we shared values in 
    common and found in each other a kindred spirit.
    If I am judged on my outward apperance alone than the person doing the
    judging is *not* a real, loving, kindred spirit and I have lost nothing
    by not knowing them.  
    So what if a man has little or no hair!  It's what makes that man a 
    loving person that counts.  
    Thanks for listening
    Peggy         

    Another woman's opinion...

    The amount of hair on a man's head is a part of his general appearance,
    and thus matters for about 3 seconds when first meeting him.  Also, the
    amount of hair is such a miniscule part of what makes a man attractive
    or not - who really cares?  I'd say that whether his hair is clean and
    well-maintained far outweighs how much of it there is.

    And one more thought:  

    I don't think it's so horrible if a guy chooses to comb his hair over a
    bald spot (or whatever).  It's a legitimate hairstyle, and many men
    I've seen with their hair combed this way look pretty good!

    Just my feelings,

    Sarah