Conference quark::human_relations-v1

	 Agreed, liesl....the fact that someone has or has unknowingly
	 transmitted an STD does not mean they are not a "nice"
	 person.

	 To me, I consider a "not nice" person to be one that 
	 sleeps with anyone and everyone just of the sake of conquest
	 and/or just for the fact that they like sex.  Now, even THIS in
	 and of itself is does not make them "not nice".  There's an
	 attitude involved here.  To me, "not nice" people don't care
	 who they hurt and/or don't give one iota for the person they
	 are having sex with.  They don't think of the consequences,
	 they just do it.

	 These people may have STDs or they may not.  Nice people may
	 have them.  People become "not nice" as well, though, when they
	 participate in sex knowing that they have an STD.
	 Unknowingly transmitting something is terrible, but it
	 doesn't make you an ogre.


	 Monogomy has nothing to do with it.....attitude does.


	 MHO

	 kath

    I think the basic issue is honesty...
    about who you are, what you want and don't want, and what you've got...
    
    to my mind, anybody who lies (especially about the above) qualifies
    as 'not nice.'
    
    /bruce

>      Ron (I think?) responed to my comment
>      that even nice people get STDs with the statement that having
>      transmitted an STD you were by deffinition not a "nice" person.

Guilty as charged... Sorry you couldn't agree with me, but I hope
you --and everyone else-- understood I said that with a mischievous
smile, with tongue firmly in cheek. 

-------------

To me, being 'nice' has nothing to do with STDs or even sex. It has
to do with such things as integrity, compassion, willingness to
invest of oneself to achieve understanding, etc., etc.. It has to do
with being a human being, not just a person (for anyone who
understands: being a 'mensch'...). 

I'll probably get clobbered for this, but I suspect very few people
are 'nice', when viewed in the harsh light of such a definition. 

But, from the definition it follows that 'nice' people do not engage
in sex indiscriminately. Come to think about it, they don't even
have friends indiscriminately. As a previous reply stated, 'nice'
people may get an STD (having been misled by a 'not nice' person),
but will never knowingly transmit it further. 

I hope you can agree with the above. 

-- Ron 

    
    Another one of those really definitive words..."nice".
    
    Ron...FWIW...I knew you were being facetious at the time, but you
    *do* have a rather dry delivery, you know...[hug]
    
    [ahem]...to the topic....nice [ahhhhh] people? not having STD's...
    
    What a laugh....[oops! sorry....]
    
    Anyway...
    
    You know I only use the word "nice" when I am following the advice
    given to Thumper in the movie Bambi...."...if you can't say anything
    nice about a person, don't say anything at all..." It *is* a word
    that seems to me to be more apropos for bunnies than people....I
    mean I can hear my grandmother and my aunt talking about *nice*
    girls....but I really can't hear *me* doing it....
    
    But...I guess if pushed to the wall I would say that *nice* people
    take responsibility for the fact that they *do* or do *not* have STD's
    or any other condition [physical or emotional] that would impact
    someone they might be close to.
    
    So, if they don't...they take care to stay that way; and if they
    do, they take care to not pass it around; and they take *care* of
    themselves in general.
    
    And I guess I would agree with Ron [again! gasp!] that nice people
    are terribly discerning about whom they *play* around with and are
    *friends* with in the first place.
    
    Personally, Who would want to be *nice*? I would rather
    be a smart-ass...[just don't bother to jump on it....I know I am
    already....]...a *smart* smart-ass, but none-the-less.....{?}
    
    Melinda

<    mean I can hear my grandmother and my aunt talking about *nice*
<    girls....but I really can't hear *me* doing it....

      I hear you Mel, I was raised with the image of the *nice* girls
      DON'T (insert anything that has to do with sex).
    
<    And I guess I would agree with Ron [again! gasp!] that nice people
<    are terribly discerning about whom they *play* around with and are
<    *friends* with in the first place.

      I have no disagreement with either you or Ron on this. I do want
      to point out though that you won't always know about everyone your
      partner has slept with. This is one of the areas I find
      particularly frightening, that chain of past lovers that you have
      no way of checking.

      Least any of us feel we are immune to all this - I heard on the
      radio this morning that a random testing at 19 colleges showed 1
      out of 5 students testing HIV positive. liesl

    
    Actually, I heard the same report on the radio this morning.  The
    numbers I heard were "1 out of 500."  Scary numbers all the same,
    especially since college campuses have not really been thought of
    as having a problem with AIDS - until this report came out, that
    is.  
    
    I wouldn't necessarily say that nice people don't transmit STD's,
    but I would say that sexually uneducated, and thoughtless people
    do.

     - Sarah
    

� To me, being 'nice' has nothing to do with STDs or even sex. It has
� to do with such things as integrity, compassion, willingness to
� invest of oneself to achieve understanding, etc., etc.. It has to do
� with being a human being, not just a person (for anyone who
� understands: being a 'mensch'...). 

� But, from the definition it follows that 'nice' people do not engage
� in sex indiscriminately. Come to think about it, they don't even
� have friends indiscriminately. 


I don't understand the connection.

Also, this seems to suggest that one shall be judged by the
company that one keeps.  That doesn't seem to me to show much
   "willingness to invest oneself to achieve understanding, 
    etc. etc."

/bruce
    

    re: .5, .6
    
    Yesterday afternoon I thought I heard "1 out of 5" on the radio, too.
    On the 11 PM TV news they said "1 out of 500".

    One of the problems here is that you may not know just what you
    might have contracted... in addition to HIV, there's what we used
    to call big casino and little casino -- syphilis and gonorrhea,
    clamydia (sp?), herpes, and several others.  Some are symptom free
    in some people -- there are a couple of viruses that don't do much
    to men, but can cause cervical cancer in women; and women sometimes
    can have symptom free herpes.
    
    Up until recently, we have been the only generation for hundreds
    of years for whom sexual activity did not include a serious risk
    of death -- before Penicillin, syphilis was usually lethal.  Our
    carelessness has let some the old STDs become epidemics in their
    own right... and while all the focus is on AIDS, we may forget that
    there are other risks.
    
    It would seem that responsible (aka "nice") behavior today probably
    ought to include getting one's self checked, if one has had an
    active sex life involving more than one partner... regardless of
    the known sexual history.
    
    Bad things do happen to "nice" people.
    
    R.
    

    In my opinion a nice person would:
    
    Not have sex with another person without warning them if they had
    an STD, and advocate taking whatever precautions are necessary if the 
    person decided they wished to have sex anyway.
    
    Get in touch with people they might have infected once they find
    out they have an STD.
    
    Be treated ASAP in order to halt the spread and become generally
    healthy again, so as to reduce the risk of further spreading.
    
    Nice people can spread STD's if they are unaware they have them.

    I think the not-nice part comes with dishonesty, and a lack of caring
    about infecting others.  
    

    -Jody
    

RE: .7

> � To me, being 'nice' has nothing to do with STDs or even sex. It has
> � to do with ... being a human being, not just a person.
>
> � But, from the definition it follows that 'nice' people do not engage
> � in sex indiscriminately...
>
> I don't understand the connection.
>
> Also, this seems to suggest that one shall be judged by the
> company that one keeps.

My definition (admittedly, very subjective) suggests that a 'nice'
person has a discriminating taste. Such a person applies careful
judgment to their actions and act responsibly, so as not to hurt
either others or themselves. Such a person does have standards (I
hate to say 'moral', but some of them indeed are) and lives by them.

This has nothing to do with being judged by the company one keeps,
but rather, choosing one's company to fit the same standards of
'niceness'. And, BTW, such a 'nice' person would not pass judgment
on others' morals/thoughts/feelings. Only on their actions. 

In other words, a 'nice' person is picky about his/her friends. Once
selected, though, the 'nice' person **will** be a true friend. This
is what I meant by "willingness to invest oneself to achieve
understanding, etc. etc." 

Does the above clarify? At least, as mud?

-- Ron

    re: .0
    
    Pardon me. What is STD ? Is it like a DEC STD ?
    
    It "sounds like" STD is an acronymn for Sexually Transmitted Diseases.
    Is it ?
    
    Bob
    

    Thanks for trying, Ron...
    
    I don't follow all your logic nor agree with all your
    definitions.
    
    I still think the essential ingredient is honesty,
    and the willingness to let one's potential partners
    evaluate the risks and make the decisions.
    
    I recently read an item in a newsletter that suggested that
    significant percentages of both men and women lie about
    the "quality" and quantity of previous sexual encounters,
    although men are more likely to be dishonest.
    
    I don't think that anyone has sex that they really
    think puts them at risk, although [soon to be ex-]
    Surgeon General Koop might not agree.  This is probably not 
    rational behavior, but I don't think that it makes the
    participant any less "nice."   Lying about it does.
    
    /bruce

    
    (.5)
    
    Hmmm...just a thought...a major point that I *tried* to make was
    that "nice" inferred to me responsibility...which encompasses
    (I think) being careful and being smart....my other points
    were sort of by-blows...[bad pun...sorry...]
    
    M_

           
.12>    It "sounds like" STD is an acronymn for Sexually Transmitted Diseases.
.12>    Is it ?

.14>    	Yes.


	Actually, it's an acronym for Sexually Transmissible Diseases.
                                                      ^^^^^^

	This is because there are other ways of transmitting some of them.
	(consider herpes/cold sores for example)


	>>AL<<

	(of course, no one really expects a saint to be *that* familiar with
	these things....right Mike? :*] )