| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 737.1 | missing ingredient | HEFTY::CHARBONND | I'm the NRA | Wed Apr 12 1989 15:49 | 2 |
| Ask yourself if you can live without respect, 'cause you
sure ain't getting any.
|
| 737.2 | Talk to Him | STEREO::VINDICI | It's the Journey, Not the Destination | Wed Apr 12 1989 16:12 | 5 |
| I would talk to him and tell him exactly the way you feel.
If he respects your feelings, all well and good. If not,
then you'd know exactly what he's interested in.
Helaine
|
| 737.3 | Where's the Respect ??? | FDCV10::BOTTIGLIO | Some Teardrops Never Dry | Wed Apr 12 1989 17:39 | 10 |
| He CAN keep his hands off of you - he chooses not to.
A relationship with out mutual respect is not very healthy,
and will only lead to pain and disappointment.
I wish you well in dealing with this.
Guy B.
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| 737.4 | Just a question... | SUPER::REGNELL | Smile!--Payback is a MOTHER! | Wed Apr 12 1989 18:20 | 7 |
|
How can you continue to see him *not* on your own
terms?
It is a simple matter of *self* respect.
Melinda
|
| 737.5 | are you really telling him to take his hands off you? | HANNAH::OSMAN | see HANNAH::IGLOO$:[OSMAN]ERIC.VT240 | Wed Apr 12 1989 18:27 | 22 |
|
Take a look at what's REALLY going on here.
How many times have you spent together in which he was all hands and
you were all "no please not yet". Are we talking one ? Or ten ?
Also, what's the atmosphere ? Are you totally "no thanks" ? or are
you "mm nice I like that" for awhile, and then after a certain point
you're "uh that's far enough, please stop"
Sure, if he's all hands and you're all "no thanks", then repeatedly
this would suggest, as others have mentioned, that he's merely being
disrespectful.
But my guess is that you're not totally against his behavior, which
acceptance, in ways you may not realize, leads him on and let's him
continue.
/Eric
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| 737.6 | Decide what is important for YOU. | CSOA1::KRESS | Certified Member of the Dream Team | Wed Apr 12 1989 19:53 | 16 |
|
I have to agree with most of the replies here....be honest and express
your feelings. What good will it do to keep your thoughts to yourself.
Only you can decide what is important to you and actually, it sounds
like you already have.
Re: .4
Melinda...are you sitting down???? Well....I actually agree with
you!!!! ;-) INCONCEIVABLE!
To the author, I wish you the best.
Kris
|
| 737.7 | you say no, why does he hear yes? | BSS::BLAZEK | Dancing with My Self | Wed Apr 12 1989 22:39 | 15 |
| I can't understand how an adult would act this way, when you're
so adamant about your vocalizations to keep him at bay. I also
don't understand how a person would pursue a relationship with
someone who so blatantly ignores your feelings! Are you sure
this man, who obviously does not think with his brain, is some-
one you want to spend more time with?
If he doesn't respect your physical requests, do you think he's
going to respect any other aspect of you?
Carla
P.S. I agree with a previous reply that he CAN keep his hands
off you, he just chooses NOT to.
|
| 737.8 | communication | TPVAX1::WHITEWAY | | Thu Apr 13 1989 08:47 | 15 |
| Noone has the right to force their needs on others. In order
for a relationship to work, there must be respect on both sides.
If someone forces their needs, wants, desires or thoughts on another,
then it is a one sided relationship. In my opinion only, there is
no excuse. I think the most solid relationships are based on
understanding the other partner and respecting their feelings. It does not
matter whether it is two people who have just met, or a couple that have
been married for thirty years.
If you are uncomfortable with the physical aspect right now,
then sit down and talk about it. If he cares enough about you as
a person he will back off. If not then you must analyse what the
future will hold. If there is not flexibility, there is no respect.
And without respect there is nothing.
But you have to communicate it..... It could be you are giving
him mixed messages. Be sure he knows how exactly how you feel.
|
| 737.9 | Is reply .5 for REAL?? | ANT::BUSHEE | Living on Blues Power | Thu Apr 13 1989 11:04 | 15 |
|
RE: .5 HANNAH::OSMAN
Eric,
You've got to joking right?
Any woman has the right to say NO at any time and it means just
that!!! Your reply was starting to sound very much like you'd
expect to hear from a defense lawer, "you sure you didn't lead
him on and really was asking for it?" Get real, it is extreamly
unfair for you to even suggest the basenoter might have been
asking for it!!!!!!!!
G_B
|
| 737.10 | Yo! <.6> | SUPER::REGNELL | Smile!--Payback is a MOTHER! | Thu Apr 13 1989 11:08 | 6 |
|
Kris...
"Be still my heart...." [grin]
Melinda
|
| 737.11 | hmmmm | LEZAH::BOBBITT | invictus maneo | Thu Apr 13 1989 11:27 | 17 |
| When you feel discomfort at what's happening...say so! If he doesn't
listen and keeps on doing it, say it again. If he's not listening
still, grab his wrists and pull away and look him in the eye and
repeat your request for him to stop. If he doesn't respect your
wishes there's not much mutual trust to base a relationship on,
is there?
I know I sometimes feel guilty saying no...but that's just a holdover
from when I *really* wanted to be liked, and I *really* felt
unlike-able, and it was *really* nice that someone wanted to be close
to me and I didn't want them not to like me....but now I know when to
say no, and I say it as gently as I can at first. I also try to make
sure they know that it's not that I don't like them personally, it's
just I don't want to be physical at that point (insert reason here)....
-Jody
|
| 737.12 | | ACESMK::CHELSEA | Mostly harmless. | Thu Apr 13 1989 12:06 | 8 |
| Re: .9
Actually, he has a point. If she's fighting some measure of physical
attraction herself, it's possible that she's having a hard time
being absolutely consistent. (It's hard enough being absolutely
consistent without distractions.) However, I don't agree with the
"Your lips say no, but your body says yes" justification. The head
is in charge of making decisions, not the hormones.
|
| 737.13 | Have you no repsect for yourself? | ANT::MPCMAIL | | Thu Apr 13 1989 15:57 | 7 |
| Noter, Maybe If You state where you stand at the beginning of the
next eveinging toghether state where you excatly stand, and let
this person know what actions you are going to take if he doesn't
respect you as a person then it doesn't say much for the person
himself.
And to noter.6 Eric, If a female is nude on the bed and then
asks the guy to stop, he must stop or it is considered rape.
|
| 737.14 | Is it worth it? Maybe. | CSC32::J_ALBANESE | Lifes to short to drink bad wine. | Thu Apr 13 1989 21:27 | 75 |
| > There's a new man in my life whom I like so far because
> he is intelligent, educated, interesting, and interested.
> The problem is that he cannot keep his hands off me, and
> this bothers me a lot because I'm just not ready for that yet.
> I want to get to know him a lot better before we develop a
> physical relationship. I ask him to stop, and he goes right
> ahead doing whatever he feels
From your note it sounds as though you have identified some very
positive qualities about this person. It also sounds as though
he lacks control of his own sexuality. Although the latter
has resulted in a certain lack of respect for you, I might not
write him off as soon as some other noters here would.
I think the main key is 'communication'. How does he explain
himself and his actions? Does he ask you to help him address
his problem? Does he even see it as a problem? Does he
recognize that he is hurting you and the relationship? Does
he care (about you AND about what he is doing)?
If he seems deaf to all of the above then although he may
have some very good attributes, it is apparent that he still
has some emotional development to go through. If he cannot
recognize you for the individual that you are and respect that
individual, then all the good qualities in the world will not
help him to see/understand you. If he cannot understand you
then maybe he has spent too much time developing his own qualities
(those things that you like in him), and not enough time developing
an understanding of other people. If this is true, then what
can he contribute to your life?
On the other hand, if he does seem aware of what he is doing
but doesn't know how to control it, then you need to ask
yourself, "does he want to make this work, does he want to
change?". If you can ask yourself this and ask this of him
and you both can answer "yes", then the road is tougher, but
there is much to gain.
> One of my voices says, "A good lover is hard to find, so
> grab him and enjoy him!" The other voice says, "Let's have
> THIS relationship go the way YOU want it to go. Don't give
> in to him until you are READY!"
If he wants to make the relationship work and recognizes
that he needs to respect you, then you BOTH need to be clear on
the part that sexuality plays in your relationship. Before
you can get him to hear 'one voice' you must yourself!
Tell him how you feel about him sexualy but let him know where
you stand. Besides making yourself clear (about the difference
between how you feel and how you act) you will also let him
know that it is 'ok' to feel/be a sexual being without HAVING to
act upon it. Help him to feel comfortable about his self. Let
him know that he is ok but that his sexuality (and just his
sexuality) needs to be controlled. Let him know that this does
not pose a threat to how you view him or his sexual self and
that he needn't express this side physically. Tell him
what makes him sexy to you and that 'giving in' to him would not
make him any sexier. Show him how to express/channell his
sexuality in a non physical way.
> It seems to me this is simply a matter of his will or mine.
> I want to wait, he doesn't. One of us will get disappointed.
Its apparent that sex is a very major force in his life. Be
sensitive to this, but remember that it is HIS problem and
only HE can resolve it. If he wants to you can help him, if
he doesn't then there really isn't a point. If it isn't
working, don't fool yourself!
> How can I continue to see him on my own terms?
Make sure your terms are always clear to him AND you! Then
act by them.
|
| 737.15 | if he cares, he's.... | SSDEVO::GALLUP | Hey Kids, rock and roll, rock on.... | Fri Apr 14 1989 01:35 | 64 |
|
I agree with Joe -- I would not be so quick to write him
off either. Many people have been hurt by relationships, or
were brought up in such a way that they never knew how to
express emotions in anyway besides physically.
Expressing love in my family meant saying the words, or
giving someone something they wanted....always physical
things. There were never the hugs and the heart to heart
conversations....everything was physical. When I found
someone I really cared about a few years ago, I found that
the only way I could express that interest was through
physical means. Sex was one of those means. I was incapable
of accepting and expressing interest/love/etc in any other
way. I felt I had to do things for him just to show him my
love... I found it very hard to accept that he didn't see my
acts the way I did. I saw them as my expression of my love,
he saw them as me rushing/grabbing out for something...at
times he saw it as desperation. I could not just hold him
and touch him...I could not enjoy that way of expressing
emotions...i always felt the physical part was the important
part. How could I help it, i was brought up that way...
It took a *very* hard fall for me to realize exactly what is
important. I am still realizing that the more you hold back
from the physical goal, the more wonderful it is when it
really happens. Its taken me a while to understand that
there are other ways to express my emotion than physical
things.
I still fall back, many times, into the physical realm and I
need to kick myself back into reality. There used to be a
time when physical was all I needed in a relationship...hence
there had rarely been a time when I have been on a date where
it didn't result in very physical expression. Never really
sex, but touching and "pawing"...IO let it happen to me
becuase I saw it as expression and affection. Until the last
year or two...I have really begun to realize what is really
important and that although physical expression is important
at times, it is not the ultimate...there are many other ways
to express that interest. Getting to know someone and doing
little things to express that interest is more important than
physically touching to express that interest.
It's hard for me to write this note, because I still find
myself sometimes falling back into that physical realm. I,
can relate to your man and I don't think that I am, in anyway
any kind of person many of the previous replies have
described him as being. Physical touching may be the only
way of expression that he knows.
I hope I explained all this so that you can understand, I
probably haven't though. It's a hard thing to express in
words. If you want to know more, I can try to explain the
way I was to you...the way I still am at times.....
it's unfortunate that people don't understand that a person
can really care for you, yet act like this....but people like
this are really no worse than anyone else....yes, he CAN keep
his hands off you, but doesn't he know how? Does he know how
to express that affection any other way?
kathy
|
| 737.16 | a case of "the golden rule" | COMET::BERRY | Save a tree... kill a beaver. | Fri Apr 14 1989 06:45 | 27 |
| On the surface, I think most of these replies are good advice, and
the messages from everyone is basically, just plain ole common
courtesy.
I think a couple of people may have missed some of what Eric was
saying. I don't think Eric meant to come across as, "you're asking
for it." Look at the base note again... not many paragraphs...
not many facts. We don't know the whole story. The base noter
hasn't supplied us with enough information.
Therefore, we cannot charge the noter's boyfriend as guilty. Nor
can we condemn Eric for what we "perceive" him as saying.
I think the base noter knows how to handle the problem. It would
be so very easy to enter a note such as that and guess how the replies
would read. They're too predictable.
Of all the replies I read.... I think Kathy Gallup makes the most
interesting observation. She raised an excellent point.... maybe
he doesn't know how to show his feelings without being physical....
It's always interesting how many people would read the base note
and automatically start reaching for the "rope."
Regards, Dwight
PS: Thanks Kathy for sharing something which hit home so closely.
|
| 737.17 | Thank you and stay tuned! | QUARK::HR_MODERATOR | | Fri Apr 14 1989 12:44 | 37 |
| The following reply is from the anonymous author of the base note.
I have just finished digesting the wonderful input, advice, and
suggestions in the first 16 replies. Thank you everyone for your
good wishes. You have given me lots of food for thought! I am
formulating my strategy, keeping foremost in mind the issue of
respect, and, secondly, where he may be coming from, thanks to
Kathy in .15. I'll let you know how things turn out.
.15 Kathy, thank you so much for sharing your own personal experi-
ence. This is a great help to me in understanding his actions.
Yes, I DO understand you. You've explained it very clearly.
.5 Eric, you, too, have given me something to ponder. I very well
may be sending him mixed messages and I'm not even aware of it.
I do find him attractive, so, like the old song says, "Your lips
tell me 'no,' but there's 'yes-yes in your eyes" or something
like that...
.7 Carla, you've asked a good question! (you say no, why
does he hear yes?) And I'm in the process of deciding whether
he is someone I want to spend more time with. Thanks.
.8 Whiteway, hmmmm ... communication -- good point. Analyse what the
future will hold -- another good point. Thanks.
.11 Jody, thanks for the step-by-step instructions! I'm glad I'm not
the only one who would actually do this! I'll try being firm!
.12 Chelsea, you are right, I might not have been absolutely consistent.
.14 J_Albanese, you, too are right, I don't want to write him off so
quickly. And I have to hear "one voice" before he will too!
.16 Dwight, thanks for the reminder of the golden rule! Good point!
|
| 737.18 | re: .17 | BSS::BLAZEK | Dancing with My Self | Fri Apr 14 1989 19:15 | 5 |
| Let us know how you progress in your communication process,
and please be careful!
Mom ;-)
|
| 737.19 | Update | QUARK::HR_MODERATOR | | Tue Apr 25 1989 10:19 | 10 |
| The following reply is from the anonymous author of the base note.
Hello, everyone. There is no news because I have not seen him, due to
both his and my busy schedules. Perhaps it's fizzling out. If/when
there is something new to report, I'll let you know.
Meanwhile, thank you one and all again for your caring and suggestions!
It's wonderful to have advice on tap like this!
|
| 737.20 | NOT CUTE | CECV01::HUNTER | | Fri Jun 30 1989 17:02 | 6 |
| I WAS JUST READING THE NOTE AND REPLIES. I'M SORRY TO GET OFF THE
SUBJECT BUT WHAT IS THIS (.16) "SAVE A TREE...KILL A BEAVER - IS
IT A JOKE OR FOR REAL. IF IT'S FOR REAL I THINK IT STINKS.
DH
|
| 737.21 | cute is subjective | DEC25::BERRY | What does God need with a Starship? | Sat Jul 01 1989 08:59 | 17 |
| Note 737.20 CECV01::HUNTER
>>>>I WAS JUST READING THE NOTE AND REPLIES. I'M SORRY TO GET OFF THE SUBJECT
BUT WHAT IS THIS (.16) "SAVE A TREE...KILL A BEAVER - IS IT A JOKE OR FOR REAL.
IF IT'S FOR REAL I THINK IT STINKS.
Are you serious??? If this question is for real, it stinks. Are you new to
notes? You're going to see a lot worse personal names than that! Lighten up.
Of course it was a joke! It describes how confused mankind is about all his
little crusades. But heck, if a person has to explain a joke, the humor is
lost.
Dwight
PS: You could also send mail for comments such as yours, since the other
noters have nothing to do with my personal banner.
|
| 737.22 | Reply fron anonymous author of base note | QUARK::HR_MODERATOR | | Tue Oct 03 1989 18:13 | 18 |
|
Update - 6 months later
We are having a most enjoyable and unique relationship. We like each
other a lot, laugh a lot, have conversations about everything and any-
thing, and the physical aspect is great.
Back in the beginning, when I first met him, I was hung up on waiting
because that's the way I was taught years ago. Well, he did not want
to be put on hold -- he is a very physical and uninhibited person -- and
we ended up compromising -- I hurried up a bit and he waited a bit.
The result is that he has increased my interest a lot! And with him I
am completely uninhibited too.
This is such a wonderful relationship.
Thank you, everyone, for your input!
|
| 737.23 | Yay! | SSDEVO::CHAMPION | Letting Go: The Ultimate Adventure | Tue Oct 03 1989 23:51 | 7 |
| Glad to hear that things are working out. I envy you finding a person
that knows what he wants and I envy you discovering what you want.
Joy to you both!
Carol
|