Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    
    That's a scary question.
    
    I have taken drastic measures because "I was in love."
    
    I think a lot of people do crazy things they might not do because
    "they are in love."
     
    Normal, sane people that go out and do nutty things, like if their
    SO breaks up with them, etc.
    
    Dilly

    I've *seen* it used to justify blindness, cruelty, sadism,
    masochism, self-deceit, dishonesty, and unplanned parenthood.
    
    I don't agree with any of it.

>>    I've *seen* it used to justify blindness, cruelty, sadism,
>>    masochism, self-deceit, dishonesty, and unplanned parenthood.
    
>>    I don't agree with any of it.


     re. -1  GOOD!.....How about *some* wonderful things we do
because we are *in love* ????  Like sending a card just because
you're thinking of them, smiling while in commuter traffic, giving
a hug to someone you love just for existing......etc. 

      Yeah, folks, its spring-fever time....

Mikki

    I read this morning in the Boston Globe an article concerning women
    who live with abusive men they are not married to.  Now I realize
    that living with an abusive man--married to him or not--is crummy.
    
    But this article was referring only to relationships and wondering
    why women who *could* walk, *don't*.  And one of the reasons that
    many of the women gave was "...because I *love* him." 
    
    It has always blown my mind that a woman will accept abuse, but
    I can see the economical trap especially if she does not work outside
    the home and if children are involved.   *But*...if a woman is working
    and it is often her apt. or home that they are living in, and she
    takes this kind of s*i*?  
    
    *That is love?*  May God spare me from ever loving anyone that way.
    
    What one does in the name of love---and accepts in the name of love---
    should not be mentally or physically hurtful.  
    
    M

    > re 3
    
    Good for Mikki, there's always two sides to everything. Sure there
    are some people who do crazy things in the name of love, but I think
    most of us have a lot more beautiful things that have happened to
    us if we only take the time to think back.
    
    I know people who have had one bitter experience, and let it sour
    them for a long time if not for ever. If some jerk cuts you off
    driving, do you stop driving because all drivers are jerks???
    
    A bad romance hurts, but so does not being loved. 
    
    I say, "Pick yourself up and keep trying"
    
    Nils

    I just have to add this because I got a bit carried away writting
    .5.
    
    If anyone claims that hurting someone, is love, then they don't
    really know what love is. Love is caring for someone else, it's
    giving of yourself, etc. etc.
    
    I think people who are abusive in whatever form, are just using
    love as excuse. And I would tend to doupt that someone who is being
    abused is staying there for love. Fear maybe, but not love. Fear
    of being alone, fear that they'll get beat up more, fear that there's
    no one there to help. And maybe a bit of hoping that the other will
    change someday. People who are going through that type of experience
    have a very low opinion of themselves.
    
    Nils

    Re: .4
    
    Marilyn, from what I've seen and read, a lot of these people who
    stay in abusive situations do so because it's the only kind of
    arrangement they are comfortable with.  Many of these folks have
    been abused as children and have grown up without a sense of
    self worth.  They may think that they DESERVE the punishment,
    that they have done bad things.
    
    What's truly sad is when someone kind and loving comes along, and
    the "victim" turns away and looks for another abusive situation.
    They don't feel worthy of true love and kindness.  I have been told
    that this is typical of ACOAs (Adult Children of Alcoholics), though
    it is more that they grew up in a dysfunctional family that may not
    have involved alcohol.
    
    
    Getting back to the original question - I think that a lot of people
    don't really know what love is, and thus use the term to justify
    an awful lot of things.  Unfortunately, it's one of those things
    that defy definition, so you can never be sure...
    
    				Steve

    	I feel the word "justification" connotes negativity.  Rarely does
    	a person feel a need to justify positive acts they do for others, 
    	yet they nearly always need to justify (defend) negative actions.
    
    							Carla
    

    We often think of what we do in the name of love in a much too narrow
    framework.  How often do we go out of our way for someone just to
    be kind?  Or how often do we quietly set aside our own plans to
    do something for someone to help out?
    
    I once, on the spur of the moment, sent flowers to a neighbor for
    little reason except she had always been kind to my children, and
    it was Valentine's Day.  It wasn't until months later that another
    neighbor told me that she had been very depressed for a long period
    and my sending those flowers caused her to think of how much others
    really cared about her and she began to become more positive about
    herself.  
    
    Often we really don't think of what we do as being an act of love,
    but I think almost any outreaching to another with gentleness and
    kindness is a form of love.  And because it asks for nothing in
    return, perhaps it is love in it most pure form.
    
    FWIW
    
    M

    
    	Another term, still negative I guess, that I feel is as applicable
    as "justification" is "rationalization". A behavior is rationalized
    "cause I *love* her/him".
    
    	Steve hit the proverbial nail right on the head. For some, what
    they may consider "love" is actually an addiction. This has been
    researched and documented to be true, and is especially true in
    some cases where a victim returns repeatedly to an abuser. Those
    who "seek" love, in an effort to medicate their own painful existance,
    may also be the ones who rationalize their addictions under the guise
    of "love". 
    
    	You kinda get an idea of which "pain" is *worse*, when a victim
    returns to an abuser or repeatedly seeks "shelter" by establishing
    relationships with whoever will take them.
    
    	Some people argue that "they have no other place to go". I argue
    that they cannot face themselves and having to do so is far worse
    to them than perhaps even *another beating* or like "miserable
    situation".
    	
    	I know this from direct personal experience of my own tendancies.
    
    	Joe Jas                

                           -< Where do they go now? >-

-.1

I would think they would go for professional help/therapy for themselves

As has been said many time before:
If someone doesn't like/love themselves first, than no outside love will
work.......

Taking a good look at my relationships in the past, I can see that a lot of them
were motivated by "need", either my need for someone else, or their need for me.
I'm now in a position where I don't "need" anyone, but I haven't quite adjusted
to having relationships based on love without need... it's very puzzling
sometimes. 

What do I do when I'm in love?  I think about them a lot...  think about being
with them...  it's pleasent to be with them (i'm not into abuse).  I am still
needed, but I feel less needy.  Have I gotten all my needs fullfilled, or do I
still have needs that I have not recognized? 

Jim.

    	I may sound a bit idealistic, but in my personal opinion, the
    actions justified by Love are caring, sharing, striving to foster
    the growth and happiness of the loved one with no expectation of
    reciprocation, and treating the loved one with tenderness and respect.
    
    	Guy B.
    
    

    Since noone really knows what love is, it can be blamed for every
    action or feeling, both justifiably and not.
    
    Bill