Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    I don't even begin to know what I can say that might offer you
    strength, caring or support.  In my lifetime, I've done many things
    that I am ashamed of because I was too frightened to do otherwise.
     Because of my fears, I had a daughter who was molested by her father
    for over 2 years, and another that was raped at 9. I had a son who   
    was so affected by his abuse that he'll never be normal, and on      
    and on...  I too have had too many memories that I haven't wanted    
    to face, but finally did.  The one thing that I have learned from    
    these experiences is that "guilt"is useless.  Guilt is a form of     
    procrastination that frees me from having to change myself because   
    I'm too busy feeling guilty over all the screw-ups in my life.       
    The fact is that I can NEVER go backward in time.  I can never change
    what WAS.  I *can* change what IS and what will be by not acting     
    the way I used to ever again.  It is hard.  It is frightening, but   
    it is also possible.  I have done it, and continue to do it.         
                                                                         
    You are in pain, and you are also taking all the responsibility      
    for what happened to the woman you loved.  This is grossly unfair!   
    Your friend did not HAVE to choose the path she took.  She chose     
    to take that path--yes, she may have had a good shove, but she stayed
    there anyway.  In another case, that of the daughters who were sexually
    abused, they have struggled to find a better life, and they are      
    succeeding. They are coming through the past and into the light      
    of a new and better day, and they have used the past as a stepping   
    stone rather than a stumbling block.  I like to think that because   
    I finally became a stronger person, I have been there to help them   
    through this time.  Because of what we were, we now are what we      
    are--better, stronger and more courageous women than we might have   
    been otherwise.                                                      
                                                                         
    You too, can use this horrifying experience to become a better person.
    Perhaps you can take a stand and help other women who are battered,  
    raped or abused.  Perhaps you can be the person at the other end     
    of a hot line for rape or drug victims.  I encourage you to forgive  
    yourself so you can move onward in your life.  Let go of this guilt  
    and face the new day with courage and a conviction to never let      
    this sort of thing happen again in your life.  Isn't this what your  
    friend would have wanted?                                            
                                                                         
    In Support and Concern,                                              
                                                                         
    Barb                                                                 
                                                                         

    RE: 699.0
    
    Well thats a very sad story.....
    
    but you can't do anything about is anymore
    
    she proberbly knew that you loved her, people have a good feeling
    for that.
    
    but what I would have done in your situation was helping her 
    when she needed you "the most" you let her down.
    I don't criticize your behaviour but I just tell you what I should
    have done.
    
    some people when they have problems start to drink or taking drugs
    that is (my point of view) very week, most of the time they feel
    sorry for themselves.
    
    you don't have to feel guilty maybe you couldn't do anything about
    it anyway.
    
    re:> AND IT WAS NOT HER FAULT
    
         whose fault was it then???
         nobody FORCED her!!
    
    maybe it helps that you wrote this all, because it was in your mind
    most of the time, and now you talked about it.
    
    USUALLY IT HELPS
    
    TAKE CARE.

    
    	Wow. What a tremendously sad story. I think you were just scared,
    instead of "selfish". It can be scary to tell someone that you love
    them. Doing so opens up many possibilities of outcome.
    
    	Figuring out the "whys" of our behaviors is relieving for
    us. Often times when we choose to yell or raise our voice over an
    immediate issue (instead of perhaps, "just listening"), it is actually
    "something else" which causes us to resort to anger. This something
    else is merely "triggered" or "set in motion" via the immediate
    issue - what's happening "right now". 
    
    	This something else is intense for us, and often when we are
    "caught up" in the feeling it produces within us, we cannot make
    our best choice in terms of how we end up behaving. It is not our
    fault that we are this way - forces well beyond our control have
    rendered this upon us. But what we can be responsible for is our
    own recognition of this aspect of ourselves. For if we can recognise
    it's onset, we can then at least *try* to do _nothing_, until the
    feeling is gone. Then, when were "thinking straight" or "have our
    Higher Power available", we can make a far better choice in how
    we wish to come across.
    
    	To do this is to take a first step across the bridge from what
    things seem like to what things actually are. Getting across the
    bridge is a discovery process of one's self, what one's own actual
    issues are, which serve so well to "screw everything up" in our
    immediate lives. For example, my anger which I express at the "driver
    who just cut me off" is not actually from that incident itself.
    It was because the incident took away my immediate control of the
    situation - I had no choice but to "wait". Having my control taken
    away reminds me of a certain situation from my past, also one where
    I had no control over - the state of my parent's marriage. Which
    caused me a lot of pain. Which makes me angry, cause there wasnt
    a thing I could do about it, except sit_there in it's "awfulness".
    
    	So, I always make sure that I'm in full control - of everything!
    I wont let anything get to the point where I cant do something about
    it - I cant face the pain that event triggers. I'm *obsessed* with
    control and I'll have it *my way* if I at all can. Take enough of
    my control away, and I'll "flip out"..."take a funk"..."go crazy"
    and I certainly have much better states of being to deal with life
    in!
    
    	This is called considering the problem instead of the symptom.
    The symptom being that I sometimes "lose it" for "no reason" and
    this has detremental effects on my life. The problem, is that my
    family of origin was simply not that great a place to grow up within,
    emotionally. There's nothing I can do about that, but I can adress
    how that makes me feel, which is working the problem, instead of
    the symptom. I can recognise these things now when they come up
    as "symptoms" and I can effect a change in my behavior. I *still* 
    have to "deal with it", but now, at least I have a choice. 
    
    	Whereas before, I didnt have a clue. I take much comfort in
    "knowing" something about myself and how I "operate". I can be much more
    forgiving of myself, too, when considering my past mistakes.
    
    	Joe Jas

    My heart goes out to you!
    
    Use this pain to change.  Barb suggested that you help women who
    are abused.  That is a good start.  In working through this you
    will help to keep the memory alive.  Become a positive influence
    in her memory.  There is a way to work through this!
    
    
    And to .2, just to set the record straight, no one may have held
    a gun to her head but if you haven't been REAL close to that type
    of situation, you have no IDEA how she could become compelled to
    turn tricks.  It can happen very easily.  The drugs add the final
    touch to insure that that young woman (and thousands like her) 
    would die a tragic death after a tragic life.
                       
    
    Strenght, and try to work towards a positive in loving memory. 
    Not of who she was when she died, but who she was when you were
    close and who she might have been.
    
    
    Sue

Adding to .4 (drugs & prostitution)

Once you get into that sort of stuff... it's ***very*** hard to get out... Not
only is there physical and psychological addiction, but your own guilt keeps you
there, since you are doing these terrible things you feel that you must deserve
them and what they do to you.  You, and other people do a real good job of
brainwashing you.

...

I had a similar relationship when I was in college...  She married someone
else...  I kept in touch with her even after she moved away...  I knew she was
having a hard time, but I did not know why...  When she ended up getting
divorced, she finally told me that her husband had been abusing her.  

By that time, it was too late; I was married and I couldn't go and be with her
when she needed someone.  I kept in touch, and she married another friend from
college and is doing fine.  I don't see her, but I keep track of her to make
sure she is doing well, and if she is needing, I want to know...

... sometimes the best thanks you can give to someone you loved dearly, is
to live well, rather then pining away...  (sort of a take off on the best
revenge is to live well :-})

Right now I have another friend who is getting dragged into all kinds of
shit that her family is getting into, and I try to help and support her...

Jim.

    
       .0> put a pistol to her head...     
    Have you ever become addicted to any narcotics/ alcohol? How can
    you say that the person could only do this with a gun to their head?
    Do you know of the guilt/shame/remorse or any of the feelings that
    one feels when addicted to these drugs? Are you aware of the actions
    some must take to support their diease? Did you know that Alcoholism/
    drug addiction is a diease? About the only one that tells the person
    that they ARE NOT addicted. That they are okay and the world owes
    them the way out/ or if you been where I've been then you'd do what
    I am doing to escape the pain and misery.
      Have you ever tried to kick, surrender, to these dieases, to fight
    the urges to go back out, when your body would like nothing else
    then to get all messed up, when your mind screams for relief, when
    you cry for the drug of either and knowing that you aren't strong
    enough to help yourself?
       Did you know that some pimps will KILL their property for leaving
    them? That what is a woman is to them just property, to own and
    sell at their own wish. Do you know what mind control a pimp will
    use on the women to keep them? ie drugs verbal abuse, physical abuse?
       
    
         TO THE NOTER:
      would have you been strong enough to wisk her away at that point, to help
    her through withdrawl, to get her to medical attention if she needed
    it? Would have you been stong enough to stand-by and not give in 
    when she mighthave cried for the drugs?
       Might have you been strong enough mentally for her? Please don't
    beat yourself up for what might have and should haves, they can
    only bring yourself down further
    
    Lisa
    have cried for the drug? 
    

    
    In life we make choices and we live with the results.  The fast
    track to disease and pain are the words "I" should have, could have,
    might have, and didn't.  Thats history, unchangable.  Think of the
    life ahead of you with words like "I" can, will, do.  These are
    the words of the future. The future is changable.
        
    Remember there is a piece of poetry/scripture somewhere that simply
    says (paraphrase):
    Help me accept what I can,
    change what I can't, 
    and know the difference between them.
    
    To the Author:  I to have made decisions that haunt me to this day.
    In some cases I've had a chance to revisit and the results were
    different, others are locked. For the lost cases it's history learn
    something from it.  I sense you feel an unpaid debt,  work with
    the homeless, runaways, or drug addicted.  You can do something
    to prevent maybe someone else from suffering.
    
    john

    Don't be so hard on yourself.
    
    You weren't selfish, you were just confused.  You were in a dificult
    situation, your love for her might have been the reason you yelled
    at her.  I know I caught myself yelling at someone I loved when
    they needed support.  I realized that my love was so strong for
    that person that when I saw her life going down the tubes, I could
    do nothing but yell.  Luckily I was lucky and nothing tragic happened.
    It wasn't your fault.  
    
    
    Bill
    
    

    re:.0
    Wow.  Major league warm supportive thoughts for you in all your pain.
    
    Just a suggestion, perhaps in order to feel a bit better, you could
    volunteer for some sort of crisis or run-away hotline, so you could
    perhaps reach out to others who are in her situation.  It would
    not bring her back, but you could reach out and help so many others,
    and maybe change their lives for the better.
    
    -Jody