Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    I have always felt that my father is an extremely unfair fighter.  When
    he argues with my Mom, he doesn't hesitate to bring in issues which are
    totally irrelevant.  
    
    One incident which really stands out in my mind is the night that they
    were arguing (the reason is irrelevant), and Dad always has to
    "win".  Mom was supposed to be going out to dinner with a friend of
    hers, and Dad's final act, to assure his "win" was to go down to the
    garage and disconnect the alternator from the car so that Mom would
    "lose" by not being able to go out.  Ground your wife -- what a
    concept.
    
    I've always resented his behavior -- I'm very careful not to say
    anything insulting in the heat of argument, because once an insult is
    spoken, I don't think it can ever be retracted.  And if anyone ever
    tried anything similar to that car trick - I'd have a fit!!!  That's
    certainly not the way I want to play the game.
    
    But, they've been married for 26 years.  Happily?  Who knows.
    
    --Sharon                                  
    

    Another perspective -
    		Because of a state of Depression throughout my 28 year
    marriage, I withdrew and never - that's right NEVER engaged in a
    n argument with my wife.
    
    		The price is a heavy one on both of us - and on our
    marriage itself.
    
    		By withdrawing, I shut off communication in a time of
    emotional need, and allowed the ensuing harsh comments to well up
    inside of me. By not arguing or somehow expressing disagreeement,
    no good was served - peace at any price in this context is not worth
    it.
    
    		I hope this little insight helps shed some light.
    
    
    				Regards ...
    
    				Guy B.
    
    

    
    	I'm shocked that the "Journal of consulting and clinical
    psychology" would make a motivational suggestion in negative
    context.
    
    	Who wants to be told "what not to do"? Personally, I've had it
    with trying to figure out what *to do* from being told what not to do...
    It's too much trouble. How can I trust someone who cant be "straight"
    with me anyway? Why would they "beat around the bush" like that?
    
    	Joe Jas
    

This, to me, is a very timely topic.  This past weekend I was 
participating in a Counseling Women course at Rivier College in Nashua.  
Some of the required reading for this course was from the Works in 
Progress Series, Stone Center for Developmental Services and Study, 
Wellesley College.  The one that had the most impact on me as a male was 
"Self-in-Relation:  A Theory of Women's Development," 1985, by Janet L. 
Surrey.

An excerpt from this work dealt with communications between husband and 
wife, and was a real eye-opener to me.  I quote:

"Communication in [the Emotional-Cognitive] model becomes interaction and 
dialogue rather than debate.  In working with a particular couple I was 
struck by the difference between the man and woman in their description 
of the communication process.  When she spoke of her own needs and 
perceptions, she wanted him to listen actively, playing a part in the 
developing movement of ideas to a stage of increased focus and clarity.  
He was ready for *debate*.  'When I argue and debate with her, it is 
because I treat her like an equal who knows what she feels and can 
*argue* effectively on her own position.'  She found that his position 
created confusion, disorganization and a feeling of disconnection, 
rather than *fostering* her idea of communication.  She was asking from 
him what she feels she does for him - going 'with him' on his line of 
thinking at that time, temporarily taking herself 'out of the picture.'  
Each had much difficulty understanding the other's model of 
relationship."

[*'s denoted underlined text.  JW]

It struck home for me; in my failed marriage this was the model of my 
ex-wife's and my communication.  She was looking for what this model 
refers to as "mutual empathy," while I was looking to "win a battle."  
We both lost!

Jack

    
    I've been with Theresa for over 10 years now.  It is the second
    marriage for both of us.
    
    In all that time we have never had a fight, never, even a small
    spat! What we do is talk to each other. When something bothers us
    we discuss it fully.
    
    We also have our Grumpy day. It is a day we're allowed to by grumpy
    and this day the family stays clear.
    
    I respect her space, and vice versa.
    
    It doesn't even seem possible that 10 years has past.
    
    Cal.
    

    I was married for 30 years, and it *still* amazes me that it
    lasted that long.  I guess it was because we agreed at the onset
    that the first to mention divorce got *all* the kids!
    
    Anyway, he was a math major and an engineer.  I am a touchy-
    feeley social worker oriented sort.  *He* would bring logic
    and reason into an argument.  *I* would bring feelings and
    impressions.  *We* would have trouble understanding where in
    heck the other was.   My problem was/is that I have to talk an issue
    to death.  His problem was that once the issue was stated, resolution
    should occur as rapidly as possible and the subject be dropped.
    
    Once I learned how to stick to the subject and stop sandbagging
    him, it got better.  I would love to say we learned how to communicate
    beautifully and always settled things.
    
    But I have a tough time lying.  I guess we just loved each other
    enough to work with the material we had and muddle through.  
     
    I do have a tough time with people who play head-games and are less
    than fully honest about what the issues are.  I was once in a
    relationship where when the subject matter got too close to his
    psyche, I got smoke-screened to death.  Talk about confusion!!
    
    Marilyn
    

My parents did and still do, fight thru us kids.  (kids is figurative :) )
My mother would say, "Your father is a lazy bum.  You know what he did today?"
[my father would be sitting in the same room and would reply]
"I'm not lazy, I'm doing it because I know it drives her crazy...." (actually,
its a little of both.  He's lazy but loves to drive her to frustration!  What a
life.)

All the while, we would sit there as if we were watching a tennis match with our
heads bouncing from left to right.

They still do this so I try not to visit unless I can get enough people to go
with me to distract them from their petty arguments.  They have been married
about 36 years.  I don't remember a time when they didn't do this.

Now he's retiring and will be home ALL the time.  She told him to put his
resum� together! :)

I feel the only thing that has kept them together is the fear of being alone.
My father wants someone to take care of him physically (cooking, cleaning....)
and my mom wants someone to take care of her financially.  What a good
foundation! 

I have to try very hard not to bring what I learned from them into my marriage.
So far we don't have any kids but our "fights" could be a lot more fair.

Ln