Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    yes it's true, but isn't nice to know everybody's there if you can't
    or need help to go on?? 

    Like most people, I've gone through much of life being told what
    is right and what is wrong.  Main source of this is parents, of
    course.
    
    So, basics instilled, I ventured out into the world and found that
    there were others that did not share my parents', and therefore
    my, views.
    
    Food for thought.
    
    Did that make what I had inside wrong?  
    
    Nope.  Just gave me a new way of looking at things and made me realize
    that there was this thing called an "alternative".
    
    Today, I possess many thoughts, feelings, ideas, etc. that are
    radically different from that of my parents'.  It's okay because
    they have what's right for them, and I have what's right for me.
    And we respect each other for it.
    
    The best part is that there's still more out there to learn!
    
    :-)

    Carol
    

                       
    	Re .0-
    
    I dont think people search so much for an opportunity to render
    their opinion or try to impart their beliefs on somebody else; I
    think they look for what I've heard termed as the "Mutual Response"
    from others. If someone starts a note with a feeling, like: "Oh,
    it's such a nice sunny day today and I feel so good about it" They
    are very likely looking for another to say: "Yes! I feel that way to"
    
    That they sometimes get: "You know, you're pretty stupid for basing
    your feelings on the weather!" is hardly a "mutual response" from
    another. It's no doubt that they do not choose to interact with
    that reply-ee. But, nevertheless, somebody *else* might see that reply
    and think: "Gee it *is* stupid to base how I feel on the weather
    cause the weather is unpredictable and completely out of my control"
    So, even though a reply may not even be "along with" the original
    intent of the base note, somebody - still - might stand to learn
    something from it, appreciate it, and identify with it.
    
    We've provided a place where one can pick and choose from a myriad
    of opinions, perceptions and feelings, some of which originate in
    a round-a-bout manner. So what! It's the process of identification
    with at least *some* of the replies, that makes it all worthwhile.
    It's how some replies lead you to feel, that lets you learn something
    about yourself. It's the interaction, much moreso than "who's right"
    or "who's winning", that people find valuable for themselves.
    
    It's seeing that at least *someone* else identified with *your* 
    perception, that leads you to feel _a connection_ where just maybe
    before only the dreaded feeling of emptyness presided. 
    
    Yes, there's a lot more going on here, than a bunch of ado about
    nothing!
    
    Joe Jas

    
    Where there is one human, there is 1 opinion.  Where there are
    three humans, you will more than likely find at least 2 opinions.
    Isn't that wonderful?   When there is only 1 opinion, or every opinion
    is the same, it is much like talking to yourself.  And as much as
    we generally think ourselves brilliant, it can get borrrring!
    
    I, for one, find the notes files quite interesting on the
    whole.  And there have been times when someone's opinion has sharply
    differed from mine but the learning part has been in finding out
    that others handle their lives in totally different ways
    and *their lives work* and work well for them by that very difference.
    
    You spoke of spending 20 years having professionals telling you
    what you should/should not do... 
    
    >being miserable the whole time cause I was not living up to THERE
     expectations
    

    Perhaps your feelings about your experiences are washing into your
    feelings about the noting that goes on.   Perhaps you *think* we
    are telling each other what to do, or we are implying that if they did
    as we say we do, they *would be better--happier--etc.* 
    
    As for your doctors treating you out of self-interest but not out
    of principle.   Well, you can hardly expect *any professional* in
    the medical field to be totally altruistic, but my personal experience
    has been that, although I have paid for services, I have received
    more than it cost in $s most of the time.   
    
    I cannot see the direct connection you are trying to make with the
    reference to being freed
    
    <from the bonds of opression by learning that our constitution says:
    "that all men are created equal; ...
    
    Oppressed by *what* *whom* *how*    
    

    Marilyn 

    Tim & Marilyn:
    
    It seems to me that the "oppression" that Tim speaks about is being
    told "what I should and should not be doing". For most situations
    where a professional, such as a social worker or psychologist, is
    consulted for therapy, their goal is to help you, not dictate to
    you. However, I can easily imagine situations involving such things
    as physical therapy where you might be "asked" to do or not to do
    certain physical activities. And certainly, in context of law
    enforcement/rehabilitation, I trust that an offender is being taught
    to obey the law. It may not have been her/his original opinion.
    
    	On the subject of opinions, much wisdom can be gained by reading
    and studying Supreme Court cases on controversial issues such as
    freedom of speech cases, freedom of assembly, etc. I selected a
    course on "Civil Liberties" as an elective while in undergraduate
    engineering school. Being a spirit of the sixties, having lived
    as a late teenager through the Kennedy years and his assasination
    in Dealy Plaza, Dallas, I wanted to better understand some of those
    issues that fired our passions in the 60's. The book used, which
    I just withdrew from my bookcase is "Freedoms, Courts, Politics:
    Studies in Civil Liberties" by L.J. Barker & T.W. Barker was published
    in 1965 by Prentice Hall in NJ. I highly recommend it to anyone
    who really wants to learn how to look at issues in their own life
    or in the big city out there from the other person's point of view.
    
    	One of the surprising things that you will note is the unbelievable
    insight and scholarly effort that is evident in both the minority
    and majority opinions in most of the Supreme Court decisions. Although
    it was over 20 years ago, I still benefit daily from the times I
    cracked that book in Richards Library.
    
    	The rule of law from Moses's stone tablets to the Magna Carta
    and recently our Constitution is one our most important achievments
    and one that compelled many of our ancestors to make the ultimate
    sacrifice. We will have to do our part as well. But to end,
    "Give me liberty, or give me death!"
    
    							Spuds
    
    

    
    RE: -.1
    
    >  -< Give me Liberty or give me Death >-

    
    How much freedom of action/thought/speech do the dead have?
    
    
    Just a thought...
    
    Andy

    TIM -
    		Your message sounds embittered - tough experiences i
    guess.
    
    		You are correct in recognizing our individual freedom,
    and that freedom brings with it some responsibility. We are respnsible
    for our happiness or lack thereof - noone else can be held accountable.
    
    	I am being helped quite well by a very professional competent
    psychtherapist - yes she gets paid for her services - just as you
    get paid for your work. There are many like yourself, embittered
    towards mental health professionals because of poor experiences
    but there are just as many who are grateful for the help these
    professionals provide.
    
    	Just another opinion.
    
    	I hope your growth continues, and if you do need help, I hope
    you are able to find the right source of help - it is available.
    
    	With best wishes ...
    
    						Guy B.