Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Stacie,
    
    You've brought up a difficult subject that many avoid, probably
    because it acknowledges our mortality.  None of know how long we're
    going to live, and you are wise to think about what YOU want.  You're
    right to put your wishes in writing, to avoid any confusion.  (You
    might want to review this every 5-10 years, as things change in
    your life.)
    
    My 28-year-old sister just drew up a will, not because of morbid
    thoughts, but because she realized that she's building up assets
    that are valuable, and she didn't want the state to decide how they
    should be distributed.  She is single and drew up the will in the
    interest of preserving the financial assets she has worked hard
    to develop.
    
    I congratulate you on your decision.
    
    Judi
    

    I think making your last wishes know is an excellent idea and something
    that is done in my family.  From the time I can remember, my mother
    ingrained in my brother, sister and myself what she wanted when
    her time came (my father would not discuss it at all).  She passed
    away three weeks ago and everything she wanted was done.  She had
    left a letter among her things of her wishes so there'd be no
    questions. She also left a poem. I believe the title is "A Poem
    for the Living" which will be read at the committals in the spring.
    
    I had my will drawn up when I bought my house so there'd be no
    questions as to who got what.  I also have my wishes written down
    and enclosed with my will and many members of my family know what
    I want as I know what many of them want.  The next thing is to get
    my plot....this may sound weird to some, but you never know what'll
    happen and I'd rather my family had less to worry about when it
    happens (hopefully not for another 45+ years).
    
    It is a difficult subject but I think it helps us to be  less afraid
    of death and may help in coping with the death of loved ones.
    
    P.
    

    That might have been what upset my mother, hearing me, her only
    daughter talk about being dead.  I guess that's understandable.
    
    I'm all for making my wishes known, on the off chance, but I'm not
    going to go out and buy my plot just yet.
    
    Stacie

I don't even consider it morbid.  At first I'm amazed by how people react to the
phrase, "When I die, I want..."  Most people try to shut you up by saying, "You
don't need to go any further 'cause you're not going to die for a long time."  I
think this is a very unrealistic attitude although I do know why they say it.
They feel that if they don't face it, it won't happen. 

I spend most of my commute on the highways.  At one point, I was passing at
least on accident per week.  One week around Christmas, it was one per day!  So,
the chances of me ending up in an accident are higher than my husband's.  I keep
telling him, I'm not afraid of dying; I'm afraid of pain and long suffering.

Maybe I'll write a letter and tell my husband and parents where to find it. 

Ln 

    My folks have almost reached the age where most people might think
    of retiring (although I don't think they will just yet...), and
    they surprised me and my sister by sitting down with us and asking
    us what we wanted when they passed away.  Well, it was kind of a
    surprise.  I mean, I know we're all gonna die someday....but it
    wasn't something I'd spent a great deal of time thinking about before.
     There's some art pieces and some antiques, the requisite silver
    sets that THEY inherited, and some pieces of jewelry.  We kind of
    hemmed and hawed, and they put us at ease and explained they wanted
    to do this WITH us as they were working on their wills and so forth.
    
    We got through it with a minimum of discomfort, my sister and myself
    each having chosen the 3 or 4 things we thought would be important
    to us.  
    
    -Jody
    

I have no idea how much my parents are worth, and wills are never discussed. I
have no idea whether this is better, but I suppose it cuts out any idea of
squabbling over who gets what.  Then again, like a bad Christmas, everyone might
end up with things they don't want.  I imagine everything will go well in any
case in my family.

The most horrible (and the most funny) thing I've ever heard a parent say is
"I'm going to cut you out of my will!"  I was horrified that someone would
actually say or do that, but I also burst out laughing that someone would
actually try and use such a cliched threat!  Or to imagine that they thought
they could keep someone in line while they are alive with a threat of what they
would do when they are dead.  In any case it wouldn't phase me as I figure that
I've got much more important facets to worry about a death then whether/how much
I profit by it. 

Jim.

    Death is one of those topics that some people are incredibly sensitive
    about (others being money, sex, religion, politics, and colorization).
    I, good little ghoul that I am, have never been afraid of death (mine,
    anyway), nor do I have a problem with discussing the details of wills,
    funerals, "right to die", etc. (I don't have a problem discussing
    autopsies, either, but I admit that's taking it a bit far for most
    people.) I think it's an excellent idea to talk about your beliefs, not
    only regarding disposal of property, but also of things like organ
    donorship and whether or not you want "heroic measures" taken to
    preserve your life, under what circumstances, and for how long...
    
    Concerning .0's arrangements with a friend to handle matters: this
    could be an excellent idea, if you think your own family's grief would 
    be made worse by having to deal with undertakers, etc. However, if you
    feel that your mother is hurt that you would want someone outside the
    family to take care of things, you might want to discuss that with her.
    Sometimes it helps to have something to concentrate on besides the
    newly-empty place in your life.
    
    -b (whose primary wish regarding funeral arrangments is to have the
    kind of monument that will become legendary among the local children...)

    
    I'd like my final arrangements to be legendary among the patrons
    of the local brewhouse... 

    Re. 7
    
    Exactly!  Neither me nor my friend have any problem discussing death.
    Maybe it's because we're 20 and we think it's never going to happen
    to us.  She's a nurse, she sees death every day, and I once considered
    attending the New England Institute of Funereal Arts & Sciences.
    (I still haven't completely ruled it out.  I mean, not *everyone*
    could do a job like that, but I think I could and do a good job
    at it besides.  Plus, the human body fascinates me, but I have no
    desire to be a doctor.  Good job security, too:-))
    
    I figure that someday I'm going to die, and so will everyone I know.
    The problem is that nobody knows when.  I know I'll be dead and
    won't even know what's happening, but it makesa me feel better to
    know that things will be done *my way*.  I've always been rather
    unconventional, and would like my last "hurrah" to reflect what
    I am (or was) as a person.  None of this nicey-nicey church thing,
    "She was such a wonderful person, blah blah blah" like they say
    with everyone.  I want people to say "Wow, can you believe this?
    Only Stacie would do something like this. This is *her* all right!" 
    and "Can you believe they buried her in *that*? What an outrage!!"
    
    My life has been spent "being myself" and bucking the rules of society,
    and I would want my death to be no different.  I didn't lead a generic
    life and don't see why I'd want a generic funeral.
    
    As for a grave marker, I'd rather have nothing than one of those
    plain normal things you see lined up in cemetaries.  I haven't quite
    decided, but I know I want it to be inexpensive but funky.
    
    Stacie

    Re .9
    
    Stacie,
    
    Instead of a headstone, my grandfather asked that a stone from his
    wall be inscribed and placed on his grave.
    
    Judi
    

    
    Stacie,
    
    I do not think that 20 is too young to discuss such matters.  I made my
    wishes known to my family at the age of 14.  It was at this age I lost
    my sister, age 27, of a very rare form of cancer (so rare that she was
    given a number in the medical case books).  Seeing her die at such an
    early age made me think about what I would want if I were to die this
    young.
    
    Beckie

    My mother let me/us know what she wanted us to do when she died back
    when I was pretty young.  Maybe 15-16 or so.  Cremation and let there
    be no discussion on that subject.  How one does about arranging such
    details mystifies me, though.
    
    I've been planning for years and years to draw up a "living will" and
    fill out one of those organ donor cards ... plus I'd like to leave the
    ol' corpse for medical science, although part of me is still
    [superstitiously] uncomfortable with that.

    Personally I really don't care too much what people do to me 
    after I'm gone.  I just feel hey what the heck I'm dead let
    who ever is left get rid of what I left behind any way that is 
    easiest for them.  Why worry about it, they'll figure out something.
    
    
    Bill

    Re.12
    
    I've been carrying my organ donor card since the day I got my license.
    I know of some families that don't want to honor such wishes, because
    it makes them feel uncomfortable.  My family isn't like that.Not to
    get graphic, but if my corneas could make a blind person see, or my 
    long bones help someone to walk, or any of my internal organs could 
    help someone who really needed it, then I'd feel like my death was 
    worth something.  I take excellent care of my body, and if I were to 
    die an untimely death, I may as well donate my healthy organs to 
    someone who needs them.  Of course, I am a little uneasy thinking
    about it, but I have seen so many people who are dying because of
    lack of kidneys, livers, etc. being donated.  I just can't see burying
    them if they could make someone else live.  I won't need them anymore.
    I once had someone tell me that you need your body intact for your
    "afterlife" and should be buried "whole."  Nobody knows, but if
    there is a heaven and an afterlife, I really don't think God or
    whoever would see anything wrong with giving your organs to someone
    less fortunate.
    
    I know I'm rambling.  What's new?
    
    Stacie

>    I once had someone tell me that you need your body intact for your
>    "afterlife" and should be buried "whole."  Nobody knows, but if
>    there is a heaven and an afterlife, I really don't think God or
>    whoever would see anything wrong with giving your organs to someone
>    less fortunate.
    
I was always taught that the 'afterlife' was spiritual not physical and that the
funeral and other stuff was for the living to work out their grief.  I agree, I
don't care what happens to me when I die.  I may just find out what the absolute
cheapest way to be "disposed of" (legally that is :) ) and put that in my will
so that my family won't spend a lot of $ on something that really won't mean a
wit in a couple of years.  Then they can take the $ the insurances give for
burial and go out and have a good time!  

I have to go get a donor sticker/card.  I had one, but when my license got
renewed the last time I didn't get the stuff to fill out and you know how busy
those places are.  I just didn't notice until I was home and haven't gone back
to the registry for one.  Is there any place else you can get one?

�n

    I can't stress it enough that you should put your wishes in writing.
    I have seen too many families almost torn apart over conflicts with
    division of property, burial wishes, etc.
    
    When my father-in-law died 5 years ago, he "verbally" told my
    mother-in-law what he wanted done with his money, car, some property
    he owned, etc.  He did not have a will.  He lived in N.H., my
    mother-in-law in Mass.  They were not divorced, just didn't live
    together.  (strange situation....)  As a result, a family member
    was very disturbed over the division and made a big stink about
    it.  I believe she did not feel "she" got enough and that wasn't
    the way my father-in-law wanted it - she said that my mother-in-law
    misunderstood him.
    
    My mother-in-law was very fair and I believe everyone got an equal
    split of the assets.  All got $ and some also got possessions -
    the car, property, household items, etc. 
   
    The only "Material" thing my husband asked for was the snow-blower.
    Another family member after walking off with the bedroom set, stereo
    cabinet, towels, etc. wanted my husband to "flip" a coin over the
    snow-blower. 
    
    I won't repeat what he told her.  Fortunately the anger was shortlived
    and everyone is fine but alot of this could have been prevented
    had he put it in writing.  Even if it wasn't in a form of a will
    but how the material things were being divided.  Even my mother-in-law
    complained about some of the family members being sneaky and taking
    things that she felt she should have had.
    
    My husband and I both have wills and also state in them who gets
    what regarding some of the material items.  I have an antique dollhouse
    that I want to go to my cousin even if my husband outlives me. 
    He has two children from his first marriage and wants certain things
    to go to them.  I think that is fair.
    
    Although we can all say "Who care what happens after I'm dead" I
    would want to be sure that the division of my assets went to the
    people I care most for now!!!
    

    Re.16
    Actually, I lost the official stickers, but I found this card in
    Reader's Digest, of all places.  It may not be  super "official"
    but it makes my wishes known, and was signed in the presence of
    2 non-related witnesses, who also signed.  Plus, my family is real
    big on this sort of thing, so I know it wouldn't be "contested"
    or anything.
    
    I suppose you could always write something up and stick it in your
    wallet.  Get witnesses.  It shouldn't be a big deal, but probably
    is something you should discuss with them before the fact so they
    hear it from your mouth and have time to get used to the idea.
    
    Stacie

Most states now provide you the opportunity of signing a Uniform Organ Donor
Card, or equivalent, that is attached to your driver's license.  My NH license
renewal form mentioned it.

				Steve

    
    Take my ashes and make 'em into souvenir beer mugs.

    I don't know if it has been mentioned, but you can join a "memorial
    society"  -- there's one in Mass. under Massachusets Memorial Society
    in the phone book -- and specify exactly what you want done and
    even pay for it with a cheap insurance policy all in advance...
    and the membership agreement has the force of law.
    
    

    
    My mother died at the age of 39. Her death was prolonged by artificial
    means with *no* hope of recovery. That was more than I wanted to
    deal with. Being 19 yrs old and the oldest, it fell on me to make
    many tough decisions (many I regret). Although we don't like to
    be reminded of our mortallity or the inevitabitlity of it all, we
    must make the hard choices now. There are NO guarantees. Every time
    I travel abroad I am reminded of the fact that my last will and
    testamony will ensure my childrens future in the event I cannot.
    
    Bob-who-is-prepared-for-the-inevitable-and-the-unthinkabler
    

    I was once told that funerals were for the living, not the dead.
    
    Based on that remark, my husband and I decided long ago that the
    kindest thing we could do for those who had to bury us was to make
    it easy.  And that included an up-to-date will, instructions both
    verbal and in writing about our remains, and certain special requests
    we might have for particular friends.
    
    Our four children grew up with off-hand remarks being made about
    "after our deaths" and they grew to understand that death was a part
    of the life process.  It ceased to worry or frighten them.  And
    when their father died, although they grieved deeply, they also
    seemed more at peace than I have seen other children in like
    situations.  And that John's wishes about cremation etc. was carried
    out *exactly* was of the utmost importance to them.
    
    I have left instructions as to where my ashes will go, and once
    on a hiking trip to that particular place, I heard my oldest daughter
    laughingly say, "Hey, Mom.  You wanna be put in the middle of the
    blueberry bushes or around the sides?"   And you should have *seen*
    the faces of several hikers who heard her.
    
    Marilyn 

    Does anyone know if it against the law to spread human ashes?  It
    seems awhile back that there was some legislation around the disposal
    of ashes.
    
    Are they (the ashes) actually given to the family?
    
    J

         It depends on the State.
         
         Yes, you *are* given the ashes. BUT, you may
         not be at total liberty to scatter them whither you
         will.  Some States have regulations about scattering
         human ashes over public property.
         
         You *can* scatter them anywhere on property that
         you own....and of course anywhere else that you don't
         get caught...[grin]...but technically you should
         check with the Funeral home...they will have up-to-
         date information about laws in their own vicinities.
         
         Mel

    Re. 23
    
    Joyce, I think it depends on the state as to the laws about spreading
    ashes.  If it's on your own property, then who's to say.....
    
    In Massachusetts you can bury the ashes in the container given by
    the crematory (it's a thick cardboard box) if you choose not to
    spend the money on an urn.  Or you can have the crematory put the
    ashes in an urn of your choice, bury them or keep them on the mantle.
    The ashes are given to the family after the container is choosen.
     My brother is bringing my mother's ashes home for burial at Easter.
    All that has to be done is a letter from the funeral home that handled
    cremation has to state that it's human remains in the container.
    Then you can pack it for checked baggage or take it carry-on....Mom's
    coming "carried".
    
    P.
    

Prior to my father's death 6 years ago, he had arranged to be cremated
through a well known California company. He had requested that his ashes
be scattered in an area near South Lake Tahoe, and arrangements for this were
made through the same company. We then had a nice memorial service at his
church, knowing that his remains were at an area that he loved.

Some 2-3 months later my mother was watching the local news (San Francisco) 
and on came a report that a pilot for this same company had been disposing
of ashes on an empty lot (basically a dump) for several months and in all
probability my fathers were there. A class action suit was filed by a number
of people against this firm, which I believe is still in business and 
seems to be cleared of any knowledge of what this guy was up to.

So, I guess the moral of the story is be careful who you make arrangements
with or dispose of the ashes your self.


Jim

    re: 659.25
    
    Ashes ... my mother (GBH), dealt with my fathers ashes in a most
    pragmatic manneer. The cemetary quoted something like $2,000 to
    put his ashes in with my niece, and that no more than ttwo peopl
    could share the grave (meaning she'd have to give up any thought of
    being put there, or anyone else in the family being interred there,
    even as ashes). 
    
    Well, state laws notwithstanding, and ashes being just that .. ashes
    ... well, I'll never tell what happened .. but if you DON'T ask what
    the law is, the you'll never know *for sure* what the law says, will
    you ? 
   

    Bob