Conference quark::human_relations-v1

	 Me thinks he is not thinking about your feelings...but its
	 probably because he doesn't realize its bothering you..

	 It may be that he knows you trust him and if he says its
	 nothing then you should just realize and accept what he says
	 without question... He may not realize there is a need to
	 discuss it--even with the trust...

	 Its a crazy situation (I've been in a kind of similar
	 situation before), but it is something that needs to be
	 discussed.  It sounds like you have a really solid
	 relationship, but he may just not realize you need to talk
	 about it....

	 Maybe you should set some time aside and sit down with him
	 and talk about it...telling him you trust him, but need to be
	 reassured a little bit...  if that doesn't work....hit him
	 over the head and tie him to the chair...he'd HAVE to listen
	 that way!  :-)  (just kidding...)
	 	 
    
	 kathy

    
    
    Paula, let me give you a little advice.  Don't listen to anyone
    else's advice. You can ask 10 people and get 10 different opinions
    on the subject. Because each person is operating from a separate
    emotional base.  The only feelings that matter are yours.  How do
    YOU feel about this situation?   What actually bothers you about
    the events?  And why?  How would you have preferred for it to have
    been handled?  And how do you plan to handle the situation as it
    is today?
    
    Then you can communicate this information to your SO, if you want
    to that is.
    
    Deb (who listened to the opinions of too many people in a similar
         situation, and made a decision that, after the fact, did not
         feel good because it wasn't based on HER needs and emotions)
                                     
    

    Paula,
    
    You have every right to feel the way you are feeling. How would
    your spouse feel if you did the same thing with a male friend? I
    bet he would blow his stack. Most men DO NOT care to take the time
    to consider their actions and how their spouse will feel about what
    they are going to do. They figure that because they are the MAN
    of the house that they can very well do what they want and that
    thier woman will accept it. Oh, she might get mad but she'll get
    over it.
    
    I am married(7-years) and have a completely open and honest
    relationship with my wife we also have many friends of the opposite
    sex,however, I would've sat down before hand and throughly discussed
    how she felt about the actions I was planning on taking and if she
    felt uncomfortable then I would not stay with that person. I would
    make other arrangements.
    
    
    

    re .3:
    
    I asked him yesterday when he called how he'd feel if I told him
    I was going to spend the night with a male friend.  I don't recall
    that he answered the question.  Sometimes I get the feeling that
    he thinks with him around, I couldn't possibly feel attracted to
    another man.  Sometimes I wonder how he can take other men so lightly.
    
    Thanks for your input.
    
    P.

    	I think that if you have "uneasy" feelings about his staying
    with a "former friend", then you have your answer. Why would he
    'have' to stay with her if other places were available. You didn't
    mention whether she is living alone or not, but I must assume she
    is. If you want some support for your feelings, you have it from
    me. I know as a man I sometimes don't realize that I hurt my wife
    and I will fall over myself to make it up, but I would never put
    her into the position that you were put into. It's inconsiderate.
    	I agree with some other replies in that you should tell him
    that you are uncomfortable with his staying with a former friend.
    I think a more appropriate word would be lover from your note, and
    tell him that overnight excursions are hurting you. I'd also tell
    him to hell with the "don't you trust me?" bullsh*t. That's a cheap
    way to ease his own guilt, by getting you to feel guilty.
    
    Good Luck
    
    Ken

    
    
    I don't understand.  If he said that he would have no feelings
    if you spent the night with a male friend, does that mean that
    you have no right to have feelings about him spending the night
    with a female friend?   
    
    You seem to already know what your feelings are.  And those feelings
    are real.  Now how to deal with them in a constructive manner?
    
    Deb
    
    

    re .3:
    
    <most men think that they can do whatever...>
    
    First of all thats a pretty sh*tty attitude and I don't like being
    included in your *most men*.  I'm sure there are alot of men out there
    that treat there ladies badly when they don't deserve it, but not
    all of us are that way.
    
    Paula,I know it's hard for you right now.  You probably are asking
    yourself alot of questions and coming up with answers that you don't
    really want to hear.  As one of the other people stated "if you
    ask 10 people for advice,you'll get 10 different answers".  This
    is very true.  The tough part is still going to be "WHAT SHOULD
    I DO".  Listen to your heart and head and use what advice you feel
    fits your situation.  
    
    I think communication is the most important part of any relationship
    and if you and your friend can't sit down and discuss this matter,you
    should probably listen to what your head is saying.
    
    I'm willing to lend an ear if you ever need it.
    
    good luck
    
    Tom
    

    re .5:
    
    She's apparently a real friend, and they weren't lovers.  I
    don't even mind if he stays with her, but I know if I even
    _thought_ of staying overnight with an old male friend, I'd
    talk it over with him first, to make sure it didn't bother him.
    And if it did, I wouldn't do it.  I think that's only being
    considerate of the feelings of someone I love.
    
    I've talked with him, and one of the earlier replies seemed to
    be right in saying that it didn't occur to him that I wasn't
    real comfortable about the way that was done.  People often
    do tell me that I'm very sensitive; maybe he doesn't know how
    to deal with that.  He gets uncomfortable (very) when I tell
    him about something he's done that hurt my feelings.  Oh well.
    As for being so sensitive, it has its difficulties, but it's
    also very simple to make me happy - so there are good points, too.
    
    Thanks for all your input.  (I wonder if I'll still have an SO
    on Monday??)
    
    Paula

    Are you upset because he is staying with a "female" friend?
    
    or
    
    Are you upset because he didn't talk to you first and get your okay?
    
    
    Dwight
    

    In my view, it is irrelevant whether or not Paula "really has anything
    to worry about".  It upsets her, and her SO ought to accept that.
    Too many times we (the generic we) are guilty of denying someone else's
    feelings because we think they "have no reason to feel that way",
    but acting like that is a sure road to building resentment.
    
    Given that Paula's fear is not completely unreasonable, I think her
    SO ought not to do anything that he knows will hurt her feelings -
    he should care enough to be considerate and make allowances even when
    he knows that "nothing happened".
    
    Paula, I'd suggest sitting down and talking with him, and try to get
    him to understand your concerns.  They're your feelings and they can't
    be shut off like a light just because someone tells you you shouldn't
    feel that way.  If he loves you enough, he'll understand.
    
    				Steve

I don't believe it was right for your SO to change his plans to staying 
with Michelle without at least *mentioning* it to you.  I also believe
it was stupendously inconsiderate for him to have dismissed your feelings
with "No, it isn't."

Something like this happened to me once.  We split up a few months later:
not as a result of the specific incident, but it was certainly indicative 
of the attitude my SO took towards me, at least at that point in the
relationship.  (If I leave it here, it implies that it was me who called
an end to things...unfortunately it wasn't.  Live and learn, Jim.)
                                                                     
I'd recommend you discuss it with him.  I'd agree that the incident 
itself isn't particularly worrisome...but his attitude leaves a lot 
to be desired.

.jim

         Hi Paula....
         
         Just a question I would have to ask myself, if I
         felt as you do...
         
         *IF* I believe what you said in .0 about having an
         open and honest and trusting relationship....(albeit
         a monogamous one)....then I *don't* see myself having
         this emotional response to his action.
         
         *IF* I were in a relationship where the man felt
         this way....but I had my doubts (about myself as
         much as anyone else)...then I *could* see myself
         feeling this way.
         
         My question then, is whether you are really upset
         about his action or about your response to it?
         
         When I trust someone implicitly, it does not occur
         to me to second guess his action....[my imagination
         is too wild...%^>...always gets me in trouble]....
         
         But when I am *asked* to trust implicitly and have
         not really *gotten* there yet....I spend a lot of
         time agonizing over *why* and *if* and so on...
         
         Good luck....
         
         Mel

I think he may be having an affair with that woman.

Of course, as someone else said, we're all just guessing in the dark, and actual communication
between you and him is the only thing that will straighten it all out.

So, somehow, you need to talk with him, and preferrably in person, not by note, and not by
phone.

/Eric

	 RE: .12

	 I think that no matter how much I trusted a guy...I would
	 still be upset by an SO not speaking with me about it first.
	 I would believe him implicitly if he said there was
	 nothing...but I would be upset about his attitude about it
	 and his disregard for my feelings...

	 keg

    Same thing happened to me, two months ago, with a woman I'd been
    dating.  We had been dating exclusivly, for about 8 weeks.
    
    This woman was not at all open about her personal life.  Although
    we would talk for hours, about any other subject.
    
    Anyway... Labor Day weekend was coming, and I've got all kinds of
    activities planned for the two of us.  Friday afternoon, just before
    the weekend starts, she calls me to say; that she's going away for
    the 3 day weekend.  You guessed it.  She was staying with an old
    male friend.  She had made her plans, 2 weeks before and never got
    around to telling me.
    
    I had three days to think it over, and think I did:  `Was this the
    type of relationship I wanted??'
    
    I've only said two words to her since: "GOOD BYE"
    
    Al

    re .9:
    
    Dwight,
    
    I wasn't upset that he was staying with a female friend.  Although
    it made me feel a bit uncomfortable, rationally I don't see anything
    wrong with it; I'm not normally jealous, and I trust him.  What
    bothered me was that he did't mention it and make sure I was
    comfortable with the idea before he actually made up his mind.
    
    Apparently it wasn't something that he even considered needed to
    be discussed, and it never occured to him that I might not be thrilled
    with the idea.  All I knew was that if I was going to stay with
    a male friend, I'd sure discuss it with him in advance to make sure
    it didn't bother him.  We're still trying to learn to see things
    from one another's points of view.  Could it be that I (who, Me???)
    over-reacted?  Anyway, we had a good weekend.
    
    Thanks for the feedback.  The early reply about it not occuring
    to him that it might bother me (or something like that) really
    made me stop short and look at it from another perspective. 
    It's great being able to see how you folks look at things in
    ways I can't initially see them.           
    
    Thank you all,
    
    Paula

    
    
    	RE: .13
    
    	So Eric, you're single I see.  :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) 
    	:^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) 
    	(there, is that enough smillies to ensure this is read in an
    	humorus light??  Propability not.....)
    
    
    	With an attitude of automatically assuming the other has to
    	having an affair just because he sees someone else, says alot
    	about trust you place in others. Do all your relationships
    	require your partner to never talk to someone of the other
    	sex least they be "found guilty" of having an affair?
    
    	

    Yes, in fact I am (since September 1).
    
    But no, I don't necessarily assume they're having an affair.  But if
    we're supposedly open, and they see someone else without discussing
    it, then either they're uncomfortable, or they're hiding something.
    
    Either way, it's worth communicating about.
    
    /Eric

    re .18:
    
    ...or they think it's too trivial to mention.

    
    
      I'd hardly think spending the night with another woman would be
    too trivial to mention.  
    
      There's a difference between trusting someone and letting them
    take advantage of you.  
    
    
    Dave

    I concur with Deb's thoughts earlier that what matters most is
    how the situation plays out for you and your SO, Paula.  Some
    observers have felt that the behavior was likely indicative of
    an affair; others have indicated that failing to mention his
    spending the night with another woman could be his way of taking
    advantage of your trust; still others have suggested that your
    feelings seem at odds with your "open and trusting" relationship.
    
    The problem is that all of our observtions are given through the
    framework of *our* views of the world, our philosophies.  What one
    believes is or isn't deceptive behavior will be determined, in large
    part, by the relationships that person has known - if I've gone
    through a relationship where I felt my trust was abused, there's
    a strong liklihood that I'll see similar experiences of others
    as the same *for them* as it is/was for me.  The trouble is that
    this may not be so.
    
    I agree with Deb and Steve L. that the key to your happiness lies
    with you and your SO - if it's uncomfortable for you, it *is* and
    if it seems "trivial" to him, it *is*.  The problem is the "disconnect"
    and I second the suggestions to try and reach a common ground.  It
    may help some for you to see his point of view, but it seems to
    me that this is only half the story - if he cannot make some effort
    to do the same, I feel there'll still be a gap.  I think that in
    cases like this, it makes good sense to trust your feelings; you'll
    know it when things are "right".  Here's hoping you all can work
    on it together� 'til you reach "O.K. Island"
    
    Steve
    
    � And, sometimes, when the feelings are strong enough, it may
      help to call in a professional third party.

"Am I unreasonable at being frustrated, feeling he's being insensitive, and
feeling pissed off??"

I think at the point where you were woken up, *anything* he did would piss you
off... 

I don't think that you're unreasonable at feeling frustrated about the whole
situation, though...

You mention that he should have made sure you feathers weren't ruffled before he
stayed at his friends...  ask yourself first, is that is possible to do? how
*could* he have soothed your feelings before staying at his friends?  If it's
not possible (or if he doesn't think it's possible) he's going to feel
frustrated as well, even with the best of intentions. 

I've been in situations like this a lot where my time with other people hurts
another person...  There's a lot of differect emotions flying around:  hurt and
jealousy on your part, resentment, pride and independance on his part.  Why not
try talking about those feelings, and trying to understand those feelings in
each other?   Once you do that, the feelings may stop being an issue.

You have a right to feel safe in your relationship, and your SO has a right to
his friendships - however he may choose to have them.  think of how you can have
both. 

"I know as a man I sometimes don't realize that I hurt my wife and I will fall
over myself to make it up, I would never put her into the position that you were
put into. It's inconsiderate." 

What position is that?  I don't think that everytime SO gets upset that I should
fall over myself to make up for them getting upset.  Doesn't it depend on
whether I've done anything wrong or not???

Sure, do your best to support and reconcil your SO's feelings, but human actions
don't always have an equal and opposite reacion.  Gee, I guess that makes
people nonconversationary objects. :-)  Sometimes the feeling is out of line,
sometimes the action is out of line.

Jim.