Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Might be tough Eagle....
    
    If the author of the base note has been with a group for a long
    time it might be a little tough to just pack up and leave.  He also
    has his wife to consider.  If the movement involves a location change
    he would have to pack up his family and whole life to run from a
    problem.  The way I would approach it is to confront her and try
    and solve the problem by taking what has happened for what it was
    worth.  Not Much.....   Don't think of her as an ex-lover just think
    of her as a co-worker.  It takes alot of effort, but it is possible.
    
    
    Bill
    

    It's a tough situation. You see...the hardest part is since the
    person is so close to you (next office, you said ?), it's hard for
    real healing to take place. You can't ever get away from being reminded
    of what has happened.  I've had two relationships with people who
    worked in my building...neither of which worked (in one case, he
    married my manager !!). For me, the only solution was to find a
    way where I didn't see the person anymore, at least for awhile. In one 
    case, I left the group, in the other case, he had gotten a new job
    while we were still "involved". 
    
    I sympathize. Being civil to her, but not going out of your way
    to see her may be a start. A trip to EAP or another counselor can
    also help you to find ways of dealing with the situation.
    
    Good Luck,
    
    Joan G.
    

    It might make life easier if one or the other of you arranged to move
    to a different office so that you are not right next to each other all
    day, in constant contact.  (I know, moving your cube is a pain, and I
    hate it myself.)  Most groups in DEC seem to rearrange the office
    fairly often anyhow (I've been here 13 years, and I think I have lived
    in 15 different cubes - lost count at around that number!)  You might
    try confidentially explaining to your manager that you would like to
    move your office - you don't have to say exactly why, or you could make
    up something (want more light, current office is too warm, move away
    from the noisy copying machine, etc.).
    
    If the current situation really is making both of you miserable, one or
    the other of you could find another position in some other group; you'd
    both be happier that way.

    It might be tough even if you move your cube to another part of
    the office area or building.  It would certainly be easier than
    living next door to her cube now, but is it worth the effort to
    move to another part of the building, knowing that you will (or
    may) still bump into her several times in a day?
    
    I dated someone at work a long time ago, in a different dept. but
    same building. It was fine when we were dating (we kept it a secret
    not because we were married or engaged--both were unattached--but
    because we worked in a "gossipy" group). But the relationship ended
    after a short time, and it became hell to see this person around
    even once or twice a day...and even though our departments did not
    "work together".  You need to seperate yourself from the person,
    I think, at least for a short while and/or until you get "over"
    them. Later on, when you can see them just as a friend or even
    a "stranger" again (ie without you feeling a lot of emotion
    whether it be anger, sadness, or still 'wanting' them)  then it
    is fine.
    
    If I saw this person today I could work right next to him without
    feeling ANYthing (anger, sadness, desire etc.). Similarly I could
    see any of my old Ex'es (DECcie or non-DECcie) without discomfort
    at this time. But I believe you need seperation to heal in many
    cases....
    
    I know this is not advice, just one person's experience. Good luck
    to .0 in whatever your decision is...
    
    Robyn
    

    Just some thoughts....
    
    Is it at all possible for you two to talk about this?
    
    If the other person is as obviously uncomfortable with the current
    situation as you are then you could, as friends/adults/co-workers,
    help each other out, perhaps.....  
    
    Maybe there are a lot of unexpressed feeling still there (anger,
    disappointment, resentment, hope?) or unspoken expectations about 
    what may happen in the future or what could have been. 
    You must have been able to communicate once when it all started up
    - could you create a situation where you could both talk freely
    about it?
    
    Hope it works through - I sympathise with the strain you must be
    feeling.
    f
    

    When a relationship falls apart, I think each person needs to be
    able to place some of the blame on the other person so it's not
    "all my fault."  It's easier for me to be wrong when someone else
    is wrong, too.  That way we're all wrong together as opposed to
    one of us being wrong and one of us being 'not wrong' (aka right).
    Just something to consider.

	 I, too, think the key is communication.. It is not always
	 possible just pick up and leave.  You have to be experiencing
	 a lot of stress over this...but so does the other person...
	 Maybe if the two of you could just get together and discuss
	 what the BOTH of you should do...this may be kind of hard if
	 the two of you parted on bad terms, but I think its the best
	 way... This way you can see that the other person is hurting
	 too....

	 I think once you realize that both of you hurt, maybe you can
	 come up, between the two of you, with a way to maybe lessen
	 the effects of your broken relationship on those people
	 around you...you don't know if the talking will make it hurt
	 less, but it sure can make it easier to handle...for the both
	 of you...

	 honesty with each other about the hurt and discussing a way
	 to make it easier to deal with...just my opinion....

	 kathy

    I agree with the "communications" idea.  It would at least give
    you both a chance for "completion" with one another.  The worst
    that could happen is that it causes more pain, and the best is that
    it could help to ease the pain.  What more have you got to lose???
    
    Wishing you an early healing-
    Barb

    Both of you were once very close, but you both must still have
    a lot of hidden agendas left and a lot of unfinished business.
    
    Can you arrange for enough private time together to talk out the
    unfinished business and the hidden agendas? You could well be able
    to work back to being neutral or friends in the future if you can,
    and if not you may be better able to at least work in the same building
    with each other.
    
    Bonnie

    This is a very interesting situation that needs more details
    before any of our sophmoric advice can be worth it's 2 cents.
    With that said here's my 2 cents.
    
    In the orginal entry (.0) it was written,
    
    | How it started and how it ended are not the issue.
    
    I don't think how it starte is an issue but I think WHY it started
    is definantly an issue. If the reason why it started still exsist
    it will never be over until the reasons don't exsist anymore. Only
    the originator can know or decide.
    
    How IT ended is another one of the issues that must be delt with
    before you can continue. If it didn't end cleanly there my be some
    loose threads still hanging on as eluded to by the writers comment,
    "I have tried to dislike her." Why try to dislike her if you really
    do? If liking her threatens the relationship with the current love
    then you have to dislike her because you want the current love more
    then you want the one that was lost. If it threatens the current
    relationship but you still have a problem disliking the lost love
    then maybe it's the lost love you want more.
    
    There were so many comments in the originators note that needed
    to be expounded that it makes it really hard to give advice that
    could be helpful. For instance,
    
    | I have tried being honest but it only stirs things up again.
    
    Honest about what? Stirs what things up? Are the things that get
    stired up things that will get them more involved with each other
    or are they things that will only serve to polarize the situation
    more.
    
    When all is said and done we all have to follow our hearts. If it
    means someone will get hurt we must realize the pain will be short
    when compared to the pain a person inflicts on those around them
    when they choose not to follow thier heart. The heart has the true
    message. It may be painful sometimes but it's true.
    
    If you decide to leave or stay can only be decided based on your
    personal and professional position. The one thing that you should
    choose to do is to get your relationships resolved.(no mistake on
    the plural)  
    
      			Be at peace my friend
    			We all have a stake in this life

    
    
    I've got a serious question on this subject...
    
    A few months ago a similar thing happened to me!
    I had an affair with a girl <stressing immaturity)
    that works in the same work place as I. I was at first
    very uncomfortable with the fact that we worked in the
    same place and didn't think it was a good idea to
    get involved. Well needless to say we did get involved
    due to her convincing me it was right for us. Well after
    a while she broke up with me for no apparent reason!
    I struggled with that fact and swallowed my pride and
    began to ask her for her reason's for the separation!
    She could not give me a reason, in fact most of the
    time she said nothing when I asked questions. All the while
    I knew something was going on that she wasn't telling me,
    and all I keeped saying to her was tell me the truth about
    your feelings and why the separation. No reply, No answer!
    I know a few people in this note said communication is the
    key and to resolve any problems, you have to have that..I agree!
    Anyway:
    So later on that week (Friday) I went up to get some things
    at her apartment and that was going to be it. We got back together
    that day and had an interesting weekend! I don't know how many
    times I asked her that weekend "Are you sure this is what you want?"
    She would reply every time "Yes, its you I love!" Well, the fallowing
    Monday I went to her apartment (unannounced) with a bottle of
    wine and roses to celebrate a what I thought was a successful
    relationship! I found out she was involved with another person at work
    while standing there with roses in hand. I was devastated!!!
    I did not let myself be noticed by either of them though! Was hard...
    The next day it was like nothing had ever happened, she was
    the same and I was furious, but I keeped it to myself for a
    while - thinking she would confront me in her own time, and on her
    own terms. (she didn't)
    I confronted her two weeks later with this bit of news I learned
    and boy did her face drop. (she was cot!) (we broke up again!)
    
    Well to make a long story even longer :)
    I ended up talking to my boss about my discomfort with the
    situation at work (the relationship was not keeped hidden to the group)
    and stated my feelings and the fact that I didn't know what to do.
    A week later he granted me an LOA and asked how long do I think
    I need to put myself back together. I said a month should (I hope)
    get me back on my feet! So now, I took the leave and all went well,
    it worked! I was feeling better about 'me' and realized I can
    handle the situation. The time away really helped!!
    I came back to work very insecure at first because I didn't know
    what to expect! (Well I had no idea!) Apparently she 'my ex' and
    her new boyfriend (the guy I cot her with that long Monday night!)
    had been informing people around the work place how much of a phsyco,
    jerk, *sshole I was, and anything else she, he could think of to ruin me
    on a personal level as well as a professional level. Even though
    I have pretty much gotten over the relationship I once had with
    this girl while on leave, I now have new problems to deal with here
    at work! It seems some people (those who do not know me personally)
    believe these stories. Normally this would not bother me because
    if there willing to pass judgment on another with out knowing them,
    there definitely not my kind of people. But, on a professional level
    I do care a great deal because it is having an affect on me
    professionally, in a way that is quite petty I assure you but still very
    affective in making managers believe that any trouble that may come
    of this is my fault! She is a very winsome person if she
    thinks she'll get anything out of it! So now what can I do? I like
    my job (the work) but this petty back stabbing is taking a toll
    on my job and me personally! I've informed my boss of whats going
    on and there's nothing he can really do. My 'ex' is also a contractor
    and works threw a company - temp. agency! Several people in her (my exes)
    group have talked with them about this petty back stabbing she's
    been pulling on them as well! (seems to be her style!)
    And the temp. agency was not at all surprised (been going on for
    3 years) by these complaints but really couldn't be of no help
    either! She is making a lot of people uncomfortable around here
    (not my imagination) and there's nothing anyone can do to alleviate
    the problem! I'm also afraid she'll some how blame me for this
    discomfort in her group as being my fault, like in the past!
    (Yes I do work with her group on a day to day basis!)
    So what would you do? I don't want to leave because I've been here
    long enough, and like the job very much. But I feel though I do
    think I do a good job and desire more than I get out of it!
    (no recognition) I think these lies are going to ruin me for good!
    I'm afraid that honesty is not enough to keep me safe from this
    petty cr*p.
    
    Confrontation is out of the question because of the maturity level
    and hostility in my 'ex'. I can't have a rational TALK with her!
    Words are usually twisted and repeated so I can't be honest about
    everything with her anyway. She already embarrassed me enough spreading
    around my personal life to all who will listen in attempts to 
    embarrass me enough to leave!
    
    So how do you deal with a lier of this type?
    Do you think I should pack up and move to another job?
               
    Sorry if this is a little off the subject!
    
    John   

    re .13  John W.     
    
      Not that I put much stock in them, but this cliche fits so well
    that I can't pass up saying it:
    
                   "The best revenge is living well."
    
       Don't allow her to get you down.  If she or her boyfriend are
    maligning you professionally then that is an issue for your manager
    to deal with.  Otherwise, don't allow it to affect you.  
    
      Go out and find another girlfriend.  Show up to company social 
    events such as the company picnic and awards banquets (etc) with 
    a smile on your face and an adoring woman on your arm and you 
    will see how little attention other coworkers will pay to your 
    ex's spoutings.  As long as you show your hurt, you will lend
    credibility to whatever your ex is saying about you.
    
      She seeks to discredit you in the eyes of your coworkers in order
    to divert attention from her own underhandedness.  I think these 
    malignings are an attempt to drive you away so she dosen't have to 
    deal with the fact that she's acted like a jerk.  Your continued
    presence is a continual reminder of this, and as as long it is 
    visibly evident that these tactics are hurting you, I think she 
    will continue them.  Don't give her that satisfaction. 
    
      Hell man, where's your pride?  Are you going to let this jerk
    drive you from your job and rob you of your happiness?
    
    
    Dave 

	 John...(RE: .13)

    >>>I think these lies are going to ruin me for good!
    >>>I'm afraid that honesty is not enough to keep me safe from this
    >>>petty cr*p.

	 No, lies won't ruin you for good.  They will probably ruin
	 her for good (hey...maybe you ought to tell her to read this
	 notesfile!).  She sounds to be very inmature and just trying
	 to cover her butt.  The best thing you can do is totally
	 ignore her and her comments.  Your work and accomplishments
	 should be enough to make the real you shine out....If some of
	 your co-workers decide to believe her petty lies, then they
	 are not being very mature either... I, too, have had rumors
	 floating around about me before like that....started by
	 someone that I used to date.  People believed them at first,
	 but once they got to know me (I hope, at least it seems like)
	 their feelings changed.  The best thing for you to do, is to
	 get on with your life and do the best job you can and prove
	 this girl's lies to be wrong... Someday, he ship will come
	 in..and I doubt it will be a luxury cruiser... She will get
	 her reward....Don't let her run you away from a job that you
	 enjoy...

	 You're right..communication is not possible in this
	 instance... It seems to be to the point that you just have to
	 say to yourself..."The petty things she is doing to me are
	 beneath me and I won't stoop to her level..." Ignore her,
	 don't be embarrassed by the things that she says...instead
	 LAUGH at them...it will make you feel better and those
	 around you respect you more for it.
	 
>>>>    So how do you deal with a lier of this type?
	 you DON'T....don't give her fuel to feed the fire....
	 
>>>>    Do you think I should pack up and move to another job?
	 NEVER.  there is no reason for you to give up something
	 you've worked hard for....
               

	 Good luck...I understand what you are going to ... it happens
	 to a lot of us...

	 kathy

    re.13
    I think I know that girl....
    -j

RE: Dave     She seeks to discredit you in the eyes of your coworkers in order
RE: Dave   to divert attention from her own underhandedness.  I think these 
RE: Dave   malignings are an attempt to drive you away so she dosen't have to 
RE: Dave   deal with the fact that she's acted like a jerk.  Your continued
RE: Dave   presence is a continual reminder of this, and as as long it is 
RE: Dave   visibly evident that these tactics are hurting you, I think she 
RE: Dave   will continue them.  Don't give her that satisfaction. 

I agree totally, that's the first thing I thought when I realized what
was going on (behind the sense) after I came back from my leave!

RE: Dave     Hell man, where's your pride?  Are you going to let this jerk
RE: Dave     drive you from your job and rob you of your happiness?

Naaaaa, I think I'll stick around to see her fall!
I friend said to me once - "You know I heard it really hurts to fall
from the height of her ego!" :) I found that quite funny...

RE: Kathy

What time is it anyway :)

RE: Kathy again   The best thing for you to do, is to get on with your life

As for my personal life that's really been no problem! I've just started
dating again and I'm having a blast with life  (out side of work)!
I learned alot about people in general because of all this as well as
myself. So I can't say its been a total loss!

It seems there relationship is thriving on the common goal of hurting
me, and now that it doesn't seem to hurt me there taking drastic measures!

As for proving her wrong about me! All I can do there is just be myself!
I think I should stay out of this situation completely or she'll find some
way to put the blame on me.

RE: Kathy "The petty things she is doing to me are
RE: Kathy  beneath me and I won't stoop to her level..."

I don't think I can consider myself better or above her, just different!
That's the attitude she has for others, she (in her eyes) is better than them...
I don't want to think like that (her). Don't get me wrong Kathy, I do know what
your trying to say. I just thought I should clarify my thoughts on this
a little. One of them are, the first step to self destruction is thinking
one self better than or above others!

RE: .16 Jerry
At least I think that's you name (Isn't "ELF" great! :)

How would you know this girl? Seeings how your located in Colorado Springs
and my ex and I are located in Mass.!

Curious Cat strikes again...

Thanks all - Keep'em comen'

John

RE: -.1

I would hope you understand what I was saying this this line...!  It didn't
come out the way I meant it AT ALL!.  

���RE: Kathy "The petty things she is doing to me are
���RE: Kathy  beneath me and I won't stoop to her level..."

She is TRYING to make you uncomfortable and TRYING to make you look bad to
others...the last thing you want to do is let her have what she wants...
There...is that better?


���RE: .16 Jerry
���How would you know this girl? Seeings how your located in Colorado Springs
���and my ex and I are located in Mass.!

Hey...if you put "he" is place of "she" I know that person too!  :-)
Seems like people like that grow on trees sometimes, doesn't it?

kathy

    
    In the morning I am gon'a cut that tree down!
    
    
    
    Hi Kathy,
    
    yes I know what your trying say. Sorry if I
    sounded like I was picking on you - I'm not!
    Just wanted to clarify my feelings on this so
    no one would think I concider myself better
    than my ex!
                       
    I just have more refind morals is all...

    re.17
    Yes it's like Kathy said there are many women and men that act
    the way your ex does. I havent met your ex but I have met her type.
                   
    -j
    

    The following reply is from the anonymous author of 613.0.
    
    
    
    
    
    Hello from .0,

    I would like to thank those who responded to my problem with such wise
    advice. I was in the process of leaving my group to get away from the
    situation,when I realized I didn't want to go. So last night we sat
    down and had a long discussion, over several gin and tonics and three
    hours later we found out we can coexist and that our relationship was
    not reality. So thanks much, you did help.

    

	There you go, humans relating to one another and working out
    there problems.  I guess that's what this notesfile is all about
    really.  It's a great thing this human relations notesfile!

				  -davo

p.s.	...not to mention the potential bucks it just saved DEC in
    moving and/or relocation fees, loss of productivity, etc., were
    this problem to go unresolved...

    re: .22
    
    Agreed; I've put this note in a small file I keep around to 
    help answer the question "What measurable benefit is obtained
    by these "non-work-related" conferences?"
    
    Steve