Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Greg,Good Topic,
    
       Being hurt or "Broken Hearted" happens to everyone sometime's'
    in his/her life. I know in my past I had many.My old saying was
    "What better way to ease the pain?,Find another girl"  WHAT A FOOL
    I was. I wanted to jump at the first chance I had,without even gett-
    ing to know her,
    I believe when you are alone for a while people tend to find out
    about themselves,,what really makes You? What do want to acheive
    in life.
    My first true love was a girl named Ericka,She is 2yrs older than
    me I met her in 1982. A winters love.But God knows we had our dis-
    agreements and yes breakups.She went on her way w/some fellow in
    1984 for one yr. I met her at a party one night "same yr." we stayed
    up till early morning just talking about old times and I did tell
    her I still missed her.That Time of seperation did alot to me. I
    did so much soul searching,I got back on my feet.
    well we got back together and I am happy to say in June 1989 she
    will be my wife.
    thanks for giving me a chance to share my comment on Hurting is
    Alright.
                                  Jim

    i, too, remember my first love, over 30 summers ago...and its loss
    *still* hurts...in a not too painful way.  the years between have
    all been winters.  yet, now....as a new spring and summer approach
    my life...i mourn the lost marriage i had for so many years... even
    while remembering the sadness and hurt it brought me.  every day
    that passes, i am reminded of the frost of that long winter, and
    yearn for the warm summer-like love that will someday return to
    me.  
    
    the hurt i feel now rises and lowers like the tide...as i find
    out more about myself and life.  some days are crushing, depressing
    days that stretch into weeks.  some are full of happiness and joy
    at the promise of the life ahead.  time will heal the larger pains,
    just as it did for my first love those 30 summers ago..  but, i think, 
    there will always be that tugging chronic feeling of a failed love.
    
    tony

    I'm still hurting from the breakup I went through in May.  It's
    kind of a dull, empty throb that surfaces now and then.  But I am
    loathe to go into a new relationship until I am successful at being
    autonomous, at taking care of myself for a while.  
    
    In the discussion about "having to choose between two people" some
    replies mention how life is a series of comings and goings, and that no
    love is forever, and that everything has a natural beginning and a
    natural end.  However, I cannot go into a love-relationship believing
    it will end.  I will dwell on the fact that it will end, and I will
    live in fear of the ending - and this will reduce my dedication and
    will make me unable to give 100%.  Why give 100% to something that you
    know will end?  I'm not saying I *believe* that love always lasts
    forever (I am a realist), I am just saying I can't go into a loving
    relationship believing this particular love will end.  I am willing
    to work at the relationship and give it all I've got - and I know
    when it's gone, it's gone, - but if I go into a relationship knowing
    it will end (where end = hurt), I am so afraid of being hurt I can't
    focus on the good stuff.
    
    -Jody
     
    
    

	Carly Simon has a great song about this, the chorus of which says:

	"You have to hurt to understand,
	 You have to get by the best you can,
	 Until you hurt, until you cry,
	 you won't know about love and the reasons why
	 You have to hurt."

	I believe that time to oneself after a breakup is necessary.  You
	need the time to think about what went wrong, if it could have been
	helped (sometimes it can't, but as long as you realize that, that's
	what's important!), learn about yourself, etc.  But you also need the
	time to help build back your self esteem and feel good about yourself.
	I think that a lot of times, people naturally feel down on themselves
	when something doesn't work out the way they wanted it to.  It would
	be hard to start a new relationship and expect it to work out if you
	didn't feel good about yourself first.
	
    	-Amy-

re .3

Jody,

    >However, I cannot go into a love-relationship believing
    >it will end.  I will dwell on the fact that it will end, and I will
    >live in fear of the ending - and this will reduce my dedication and
    >will make me unable to give 100%. 

    > Why give 100% to something that you know will end?  


How are  you  living  your life in all other areas? We all know that we will
die  someday. Does that mean you are dwelling on it and are not living it up
a  100% (or more)? 

jay

PS this  is  not  a personal question to you. It applies to all of us in all
the things we do, and I'm currently engaged in this sort of an inquiry...


     
    
    

    I am living my life to the best of my abilities, but *I* am 100% in
    control of that.  I doubt I will die soon, but if I do, I don't suppose
    I'll have anything at all to worry about anymore... 
    
    With love, it's different.  It takes a lot of trust and a lot of
    honesty.  And you are not 100% in control.  You are 50% in control.
    That's the scary part.
    
    -Jody
    

    re .6:
    
    Jody,
       Not scary...exciting!  Have a little more faith in yourself.
    Life is too wonderful and precious to not take the risk (yes, sometimes
    you do get hurt) to love someone or something.  Definitely start
    by feeling good about yourself, all of your accomplishments and
    your dreams and aspirations.  Then go for it!
    
    Larry  (Why did that sound like a commercial for the Mormans?)
    
    :)

    I happen to think it's both - scary AND exciting.  But that's what
    makes it such a joy.
    
    				Steve

         I agree.  Overcoming the risk tends to heighten the reward
    and make one appreciate the relationship more.  When the relationship
    fails, it is just part of the game.
    
         The kind of person I would NOT want to encounter (romantically)
    is the kind of person who does not hurt.
    
                                    Greg

This topic really strikes home.  I was just "broken up with" by my {girlfriend,
woman friend, woman I was seeing - choose your favorite} of 1.5 years.  

It definitely was NOT what I wanted to happen.  Yes, it hurts a lot - I feel
a deep loss.  I was hoping that this "was the one".  There were so many things
that I felt was right about this relationship, but in the end - she didn't.

I'm bothered by the feeling of powerlessness that Jody alluded to a couple 
back.  A relationship is definitely something you only have 50% {control,
input} of.  There's another person with all of their desires, needs, backround,
etc. involved.

Also, it's hard not to blame yourself for the relationship's (I'm tempted to say
failure) end.  Too many "if only's".  

Yes, I know it's alright to hurt.  I also know that experiencing that hurt is
a LOT better than burying it.  I feel much "cleaner" and more open when I'm
experiencing these emotions, even if experiencing them is unpleasant.  Time
for the wounds to heal is what I need - and this is one of those occasions
when I wish time would hurry up so that I can just be past this...

"The kind of person I would NOT want to encounter (romantically) is the kind of
person who does not hurt."

I feel like that remark was aimed at somebody like me... :-) even though I know
it wasn't, I'll attempt to explain where I stand in relation to the statement.. 

I tend to hurt less by a break up, I believe, because I believe that people have
the right to do what they wish with their lives.  I'm not attached to the
continuing of any relationship to the point that I will play games (play hard to
get), or debase myself in order to continue the relationship.  I will try very
hard to communicate my thoughts and feelings on the matter, though, and hope
that the other person can understand, and perhaps feel that continuing the
relationship is possible.  I also do the reserve, and listen to the other person
and try to understand them. 

I do, however, feel that there are right ways and wrong ways to go about
breaking up, and right reasons and wrong reasons for breaking up.  A lot of
communications is needed to make a necessary change in a relationship as easy as
possible for all concerned. 

Jody mentioned that in a relationship with another person you only have 50% of
the control then you have when you are by yourself.  My experience is that you
have much less then 50% control, perhaps 30% control.  In a relationship there
are some things you have control over, some things your SO has control over, and
somethings neither of you have control over.  I've been through 'breaking up'
quite a few times, and in many/some cases the fact that you are breaking up is
not controlable.  That's why I feel it's important to handle it as smooth as
possible. 

Jim.

From the  previous replies, it appears as though people generally want to be
in  "control"  of  things.  While being in control makes us all feel sure of
ourselves, it also kills off possibilities. Most of us tend to be in control
of  situations  by  being  right  about  something.  This tends to cloud our
thinking, because we already know "the right thing".

At the  same time, I'm not implying that the opposite (being not in control)
is better. My point of view is that being committed is what counts. Granted,
that  the other person brings his/her own baggage into the relationship, but
committment  to  the relationship will open up new possibilities. 


Here is  an  example.  A  while  ago  there  was  some discussion about SO's
spending  time  together.  Notes were written about each person's viewpoint,
and  how  each of them was right, but nobody approached the problem from the
place  where  both  people  in  the relationship are committed to making the
relationship  work.  Once  this  is  the  premise, better communication can
probably  work  out  an arragement like "be together for 3 nights a week, do
your own thing for 4 nights a week" etc. 

That's my another 2 cents worth.

RE .6

Being 100% in control of one's life doesn't mean that one is living it up to
his/her  full  potential. On the contrary, the person might just be coasting
along.

Finally, let me play the devil's advocate, and ask the following:

"Why should  love  be  any  different from the other areas of our
life?" 


jay

    Re: .11
    
         It is certain, Jim, that I was not aiming that remark at you.
    However, your note reveals some things you derived from the comment
    which were not intended.
    
         The most significant of those being the concept of dragging
    out relationships.  That was not at all part of what I was saying.
    I don't personally happen to be of the whiny, clingy, prolong-the-
    inevitable type.  I am, however, the type who appreciates a partner
    who does not bolt at the first sign of imperfection.  I like the
    type of person who finds it worthwhile to try to work things out rather
    than consider the slightest problem to be the appocalypse.  These
    are the people whom I describe as the kind who hurt.  They do not
    have teflon emotions, but do have a huge capacity to care.
    
                                    Greg

    
    what's all this talk about control?  what aspects of your lives
    do you actually control?  nobody has 100% control of everything
    they do.
    its seems most people spend their whole lives trying to get
    control of themselves and their surrounding when actually they
    have very little control.  
    
    

    In regard to the control issue.  I think .14 is right to
    an extent.  I see control as a choice issue.  If we feel
    we have no choice then we feel like we have no control.
    As long as we feel there are choices available to us then
    we feel we are in control.  .14 is right in that we can't
    control what other people do or think or feel.  We can
    only control nature to a certain extent.  However I think
    we _can_ control our reactions when "life happens" to us.
    In this we do have choice because we're (supposedly)
    intelligent enough to see things from different perspectives.
    When we lose our sense of perspective (usually in highly
    emotional situations) then we don't recognize the choices
    available to us and therefore feel out of control.
    
    Nanci

       I have to agree with the person a few notes back that said all
       they needed was time to get over the hurt but they wish time was
       moving faster. I can sure understand that. I'd like to get out
       and start dating again but I can't get over this fear of starting
       something that may end up hurting me again. I'm better now than a
       year ago but I'd like it to just be over. I've never been able to
       understand people who have "happy divorce" parties. Even though I
       now see that in many ways this is better for me than the
       relationship as it was, I still don't feel like having a party
       over it. Hmm, on the other hand, maybe a New Orleans style
       funeral for the relationship?

       As for the issue of control, you have control over how you react
       to situations/events but you may not have control over whether
       you get involved in them. liesl

    RE: .17
    
    Your idea of a funeral for a relationship makes more sense than
    you might think.  When a person loses something that was important,
    there is always a period of grieving over the loss.  That grief
    is always necessary, always painful, and always good.  We all need
    to grieve a loss but we also need a way to deal with it and find
    our way through it.  The way to do this is with a ritual.  This
    is why we have funerals for people who die.  Unfortunately our society
    does not seem to recognize the fact that there are other losses
    which can be as painful as the death of a loved one.  
    
    We need ways to deal with these lossed and time is not enough.
    Certainly in time we can forget a loss but that does not mean we 
    are over it or have dealt with it properly.  I think the proof of
    that is how years later something will happen to remind us of a loss
    and we feel the hurt all over again.  If we have walked through
    all the pain, we can be certain that we are over it and can move
    on confidently with new relationships.  I don't mean to make this
    sound easy either.  It's not!  But each person who suffers a loss
    needs to come up with his/her own ritual to deal with that loss
    and then needs to celebrate that ritual with his/her close friends.
    We can't just ignore the pain; it's very real and we all need help
    to deal with it.  So go ahead and plan a, what was it, New Orleans
    style funeral?  Whatever you need to do, you do and let the people
    who love you share your grief and help walk you through it.
    
    						John

    
    	I've given up on anyone "being the one this time". Heck, certainly
    if my last wonderful love "wasnt the one", nobodys gonna be "it" for me.
    Now, guess who that leaves to carry the weight or whatever? If I'm
    not enough for myself to be happy, who could ever be?
    
    	Grieving a loss to completion is a skill. Ideally, it is learned
    at an early age, when our parents let us express and then affirmed our 
    feelings as significant, say, when 'ol Ruff the doggie finially died.
    They realized that by doing this, we'd come to our own terms with
    the loss, and then just let it go. They knew about the joy that they'd
    later observe in us when a "new" Ruff happened to be under the tree on 
    Xmas morning.                            
    
    	This skill is sorta a necessity in life, because life isnt always
    "fair". Life can deal you a real nasty hand sometimes. It can strike
    like lightning and virtually vaporise what you thought you "had".
    You can either go off the deep end over it, or, you can use your
    grievance skills to work it out on your own terms and then go on
    with your life. Life is, after all, what we're here for. (read: to live)
    
    	A lot of us havent learned this skill and it's one of those
    that seems more difficult to learn as we get older. Its one of those
    painful steps in growing as a person, for some, too painful to
    consider - loathing is much easier. Being afraid - doing nothing
    - remaining stagnant - withdrawing - throwing in the towell - numbing
    one's senses and feelings are all "easier" ways of coping. But this
    is only apparently so. For it *always* works out, that confronting
    the pain_of_loss and going through it in an effort to resolve it
    on your own terms, is much less an effort than maintaining a
    dissociated state from anyone, a generally negative outlook on life,
    or putting a firm hold on growing and change.
    
    	Joe Jas 

    Sometimes I think I have had more of my share of hurt than other people,
    but each year I live I meet people who have had their losses also.
    It is part of being alive I don't see how any person can live without
    experiencing facets of the spectrum.
    
    Someone somewhere once said without the hurt we would not be able
    to recognize the joy, without the ups we would not be able to see
    the downs.  My joys are far more precious to me now.  
    
    Also I now know what it takes from me to pick myself up.  I know more 
    about my strengths than I did before.  I have a storehouse of joyful
    memories.  

Last night, CNN reported that Cobb County court REQUIRES
divorcing or parents with child custody dispute attend classes on
developing a positive relation to victims of divorce (children).
The success rate is great; the purpose was not to put the family
back together, just to ease the hurting to the little ones
involved.

I think that this is a great and positive step.

cal hoe