Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    many people need time to themselves, time to see their friends,
    time to play with hobbies the two of you might not necessarily share.
    
    Coming from where I've been (where else can I come from?) - I'd
    say that if we agree we are SO's, one day and one weekend per week
    doesn't come close to the time I'd want to spend with them.  And,
    of course, the time spent together doesn't necessarily have to be
    "dating" time, or "quality" time.  You can be seeing friends together,
    doing chores, shopping, reading quietly, listening to music, seeing
    a movie....just plain togetherness counts, too.  I have never had
    an SO I didn't either almost-live-with (i.e. have separate apartments
    but nearly live together anyways), or completely-live-with.  But
    that's just me.  SO is a pretty serious thing in my book.  But you
    said you were talking about dating-type situations, so I can't help
    too much there.  I have a friend I like a great deal now, and he
    and I spend maybe 8-10 hours a week together (whether it be alone,
    with friends, whatever)...but I wouldn't call him an SO.

    -Jody
        
    

    Gail,
    
    I tend to agree with your "SO". 
    
    I can keep myself very busy during the week, it's the weekends, which I
    call "prime time" that I think should be spent together having fun. And
    one night during the week is usually a treat or something special.
    
    I guess it's an individual need or want.  But I would certainly
    try to come to some agreement with your "SO" if you are unhappy
    with the situation.
    
    -Dotti.

    Gail,
    
    Considering the fact that I was the one that started the "BIG C"
    note, I guess I should comment here as well...I agree with you.
     I want to spend much more time with my guy than I get to spend...
    he has to "have his space".  And the worst is that if I spend a
    Saturday night doing something else, I don't get to see him at all
    that week...I have since come to find out (and i think that this
    is true for both men and women...no bias here!) is that if they
    aren't willing to spend more time, it's because they aren't sure
    of the relationship...where it is...where it's going....what is
    should/shouldn't be.  It doesn't make my happy, in fact it usually
    pisses me off...I find that I can't do anything about it because
    he doesn't want to spend more time with me...talk about a blow to
    the ego...and I either have to accept it, or get out of the
    relationship.  At this point, I'm not sufficiently frustrated enough
    to get out, but I fear that the time is coming and soon.  Some people
    need alot of time together, some don't....I do, and my "boyfriend"
    doesn't....he's happy the way things are, so it's up to me to either,
    as the expression goes, sh*t or get off the pot!  It all depends
    on what YOU need....although you have to take both people into account,
    remember that you are still the most important to you, and have
    to take care of yourself before anyone else can take care of you.
     If you need more time from your SO, ask for it...if he can't give
    it, you may have to reset your priorities!
    
    Whatever happens, good luck...stay in control of yourself, and all
    will work out.
    
    Jill
    

    
    
    	i dont know, i think this is a fine line...
    i feel if you are not careful you can drive a person away,
    unintentionally (sp?).. anyway some people need to connect more
    offen than the other person, if this is the case the other person
    whats to be seperate (space i guess) my only suggestion to you
    is to seek out other people to fill that need. that way you are
    both getting what you need.
    its hard... sometimes... i know that when i was in a relationship
    this past year, everything was done together, i didnt say anything,
    but i was feeling smothered things backed off some and i was getting
    comfortable, then things changed some more and committments elsewhere
    were pushing us apart.  i think that if people care enough about
    each other they can do things for each other to make each other
    happy... and try and spend the quality time to get the relationship
    back on track..
    
    

    
    
    	re:3 sorry yea beat me too it... p.s.
    your intutions are right in target, i think....
    i should have gotten out long time ago, cause maybe that person
    might have realized that they better get moving as well, and maybe
    the course of the relationship could have been changed.... but it
    didnt happen...
    

    Hi Gail,
    
    	I would agree with your SO. Taking time for yourself can be
    refreshing. Did you ever consider taking up a hobby? I value my
    time alone because it makes me appreciate being with my SO more.
    For instance, I play piano, crotchet and knit, attend school, prepare
    homework, and when we get together, my attention is on him, not
    me. I guess I want to say that giving attention to myself is just
    as important as giving attention to anyone else. Sometimes I need
    the time to unwind and get refreshed.
    
    	Being alone is not the same as being lonely. Keep happy, Gail!
    
    					Susan
    

    Gail, in a "just dating" situation the "weekend and maybe one
    day" per week feels about right to me, and it's too much if
    just dating means dating other people, too.  When I was
    dating someone "seriously," meaning (mostly) not dating other 
    people, it was usually weekend, one or two nights a week, and
    (occasionally) phone calls.  The difference between "just
    dating" and "dating seriously" for me was less in how much
    more time we spent together than in what we did and how we
    felt about each other. 

    Personally, I've never had an SO I wasn't living with (or
    married to).  But then, I never dated someone "seriously" for
    more than eight months or so before we moved in together.

    If you're living together, married or not, you're going to
    spend more time with each other.  My SO and I find that we
    *must* have some time to do things without each other; one
    night a week for each of us is about right.  Furthermore,
    they're *not* the same night:  I like having a night out
    alone or with other people as well as an evening alone at
    home.  A lot of the time that we spend "together" is quite
    solitary, as we're both intense readers and programmers, and
    often one of us is absorbed in a novel while the other is
    absorbed in a programming problem on the computer.

    You and your SO may, as my SO and I do, have quite different
    social needs.  You may enjoy spending time with him because
    that meets a need you have to spend time with people, he may
    have much less need to spend time with people.  This is true
    for me, and I have recently begun to make a conscious effort
    to do social things with my friends and family occasionally,
    so that I feel less strong a need to badger John to spend
    time with me, or go to a party with me, when he's not
    necessarily interested in doing so.  In return, he's been
    *more* willing to do social things with me, like going to a
    movie or to dinner with friends.  I feel happier (because my
    needs are met more closely) and stronger (because I figured
    out something that was bothering me and *did* something about
    it) and John feels happier (because I'm not leaning on him so
    much). 

    You may want to sit down and really think about what needs
    your relationship with your SO satisfies for you (or could,
    if you were spending the time together you'd like to). If it
    turns out that some of them can be met in part in other ways,
    like some of my "social" needs, you may find that you are
    both happier if you work things out for yourself.  Your SO
    may otherwise feel like you're depending on him for
    *everything*, and feel justifiably uneasy about being able to
    satisfy *all* your needs. 

    I've rambled a bit from your original question.  Good luck in
    working things out comfortably for you both!

    -- Linda

    a bit more clarity...
    
    By just dating I mean as apposed to married or living together. I
    guess you could call it serious as we have agreed not to see other
    people. And by getting together I don't mean having to do dating
    things, I just mean spending time doing things you may have just
    as well done alone at home such as reading or watching a movie on
    TV. I mean how much of his space am I taking up by going over so we can
    watch the game together? And not to mention it takes me an hour
    to get there to drop by. 
    
    Gail
    
    

    Gail,
    
    Would taking a poll really solve anything? From what I read in your
    note, you aren't happy with the amount of time your SO is devoting to
    you and want more. That's perfectly reasonable. But what would a poll
    prove? 
    
    Suppose 83% of the people in this conference think you should be happy
    with what you have. It doesn't prove anything. The point is that *you*
    are unhappy with the amount of time *you're* getting. The 83% don't
    count for diddlysquat. If *you* think you're not getting enough time,
    then you're not getting enough time. 
    
    Similarly, if 83% of the people in this conference think you're not
    getting enough time, it still doesn't matter. The point is that your SO
    appears to be uncomfortable with more time.
    
    The real problem is that the two of you have a problem. Polls won't
    help anything (unless you're planning on having 2.1 children and living
    in a house with 1.9 TVs, .7 VCRs, 3.4 phones, and 1.3 cats, in which
    case feel free to dismiss my rantings and carry on).
    
    There may be no real solution to your problem. Your SO may be unwilling
    to give you more time, in which case you have to learn to live with it,
    or find someone better suited to you. But there probably is. Would you
    like some suggestions? This is a good group, and I'm sure we can come
    up with one or two.
    
    	Jon 

    re .9
    
    Jon, I agree a poll is not going to solve a thing. My point was
    to get a feel for what other people thought. My SO is trying to
    sell me the idea that what he has been saying to me is not just
    his personal opinion (which of course it is) but rather the way
    "everyone else" would think. For my own peace of mind I was looking
    for some reassurance that my thinking on the situation wasn't so
    as unreasonable as he might imply. 
    
    And your right, we need to come to an agreement to suite us, both
    our needs. When you get back to the BIG C issue, I would say that this
    is one of the issues that we are commited to work on, we have too.
    I can't make the jump to say that I should find someone else that
    fits the bill as far as time needs are concerned, we both see this
    as a workable issue. I only wish to find some possible avenues of 
    compromise. 
    
    Gail
    

    Gail, one thing bothers me a little...in .8 you implied that
    some/most of what you're interested in doing with your SO are
    things that you could "do just as well alone," such as
    watching TV or reading.  But back in .0 you said something
    like (I think I've got the meaning right, if not the words)
    "if he's so committed to this relationship, why doesn't he
    want to spend more time together?"

    Umm...the implication I get here is that for you doing
    *anything* together shows a commitment to the relationship,
    but a commitment to the relationship (in my book) means
    actively working to improve the relationship and grow in it
    as individuals.  Assuming that I'm not way off base...I would
    disagree that watching TV together (or whatever) shows a
    commitment to the relationship.  Sure, it's fun, it feels 
    good to be around your SO even if you're not explicitly
    touching or talking.  But I don't think it does much to
    improve your relationship, or help each of you grow in it.
    Maybe he really *does* feel committed to working on this
    relationship with you, but it's really difficult for him to
    do as part of watching TV together, when his mind is on the
    tube.  Maybe he feels like time spent with you needs to be
    quality time, time committed to growing in your relationship
    together, and to him that *doesn't* include lounging around
    watching TV together.  (Always assume the best about someone
    else; they'll usually live up to it.)  This might especially
    be true if he knows you're looking for "commitment" (as
    you've said you are) and doesn't realize that may include
    (for you) time spent "doing nothing."  If commitment to the
    relationship for *him* means something more active, he may
    need the lounging around time *alone* as a way to give his
    psyche a rest. 

    Well, I'm doing a lot of speculating on rather little
    information, and as Jon (I think, .9 anyway) points out, what
    works for us may not amount to a hill of beans for the two of
    you.  I guess what it comes down to is the two of you need to
    figure out what you each need, and why, and how to get it
    without trampling on each other.  And it's still easier said
    than done!

    -- Linda

I like to spend as much time as possible with my SO...  Yet there are times when
one wants to do things the other doesn't want to do...  Then again, I've never
reached the state of social exclusivity, there are always more things I want to
do with more people.... :-)

Jim. 

    
    Hi Gail,
    
    I like this topic.  I've got the same thing going on in my relationship
    although the situation is a little different.  My SO and I have
    a serious relationship (not seeing anyone else) but we spend A LOT
    of our spare time together.   About 99% of it.  He doesnt spend
    much time with his friends and he feels he should do that more but
    is still happy spending a lot time together.  What I"m finding for
    myself is this:  The more time I spend with him, as time goes on,
    the more I feel uncomfortable when I not with him.  Uncomfortable
    meaning lonely or bored.  What I need to do is to find things to
    do for myself - not just to fill my time when we're not together,
    but because I sincerely want to fulfill my own needs more and not
    put that responsibility on to him.  It is crucial, I feel, to keep
    your independence to a point.  If not, its very easy to fall into
    the trap of needing someone to make you happy.  I dont believe in
    that.  I dont know if this is what you're feeling, but it can
    snowball before you know it.  
    
    I dont feel there is a right and wrong amount of time to spend
    together. Weather it be a couple of days out of the week, or every
    night, it depends on the couple's choice.  And where it differs
    in your case, I agree with the majority of answers here, if a
    compromise cant be made, and your still not feeling good about it,
    you might decide to find someone closer suited to you. 
    
    Easier said than done, I know.  I hope this helped a little.
    
    Diane                                                        
    
    re.-1
    
    I dont think she was looking for actual percentages but just about
    some other people's situations.  I find that asking how other people handle
    certain situations helps me out too.  I dont think there is anything
    wrong with that.
                      
    

    
    
    OK, since you're looking for other people's 'opinions'-
    my husband and I have been practically 'glued at the hip'
    from the day we met...almost immediately, we spent almost
    every weeknight and most of the weekend, together.  Usually
    I would beg off once or twice a week, just so I could get
    my laundry done and dust occasionally.  Since we work in
    the same building, we drive to and from work together, often
    have lunch together, and send mail to each other periodically.
    He commented the other day that we are so close, he's now 
    dreaming MY dreams!  
    
    My first husband and I were almost this close also, until the
    last year of our marriage.
    
    I am very close to the special folks in my life...lots of physical
    mental and emotional contact.
    
    I know this all sounds very sappy and I also know that the majority
    of peole just don't understand-they perceive so much togetherness
    as a sign of insecurity or dependence.  As long as it works for
    us, though, I don't mind what others thing...come to think of it,
    these are the same people who said I would 'spoil' my baby by holding
    him a lot, and never letting him cry.  8 years later he is the most
    independent, secure child I've ever seen...still gets/gives lots
    of hugs and kisses though!!
    
                   Deb
    
    

    I have a friend I go cycling (bicycle) with regularly.   He really
    wants to get in shape bad, and this is his chosen method.    His
    girlfriend gets bent out of shape *every* time he wants to go
    riding after work.
    
    	He tried to work around this, encouraging her to get a good
    bike, and inviting her to come on rides, but she always refuses
    to come along.    So he comes and rides with me, and then she gives
    him the silent treatment.
    
    	She wants to spend every available moment together, but
    refuses to get into the activities that he's into.    He likes
    spending time with her, but feels that he can't just stop doing
    everything he likes just cause she's not into it.   He has come
    into her life, but she does not come into his.   She expresses
    feelings of rejection every time he goes to do what he wants,
    if it is not something she's also into.   (she also rules the
    TV, the stereo....)
    
    	I'm not saying this is like your situation, it's just the
    scene I've been seeing lately.   In their case the real problem
    is not the amount of time spent together (although this is what
    she'd complain about) it's her refusal to even consider what he
    wants to do as a viable alternative.    I doubt if they'll last
    much longer as a couple.
					Alan.

    re .10:
    
    Gail, if he's trying to sell you an idea, then he's trying to sell you
    an idea. You're not a statistic, you're a human being. Don't fall for
    it. Attack the problem, not the smokescreen. Even if everyone else *is*
    happy with that much time, you're not everyone else, and he's not
    everyone else's SO. 
    
    	Jon

    People definitely need time to themselves, some more than others.
    (I'm near the extreme on the 'more' side.)  Perhaps a better approach
    would be to define how much time or which times you'll spend apart,
    doing your own things, even if those things could be done together.
    I spend a lot of time reading, but I frequently find that having
    another person in the same room is very distracting.  I don't enjoy
    reading as much when that happens and it makes me grumpy.

    well, now that I have read all the replies...
    
    I think if he is an *SO*, and committed to be an SO, then you should
    expect to have the majority of his non-self time together.  What
    you two need to define is what is the non-self time?... It could
    well be that his non-self time is only one night a week, and one
    day on the weekend... if that is the case, then I think you should
    be allowed to have part of both of those days/evenings...
    
    If I am dating someone, I don't particularity care if I see them
    X% of the week, as long as I know I have a time to look forward
    to seeing them again.  However, on the other end of the spectrum,
    I enjoy talkig to them on the phone late at night...  I have been
    accused of not giving men their space because I like talking at
    night (I've been told - if they want to talk to you they will call)
    in a way, I guess its the same as wanting to have their personal
    time, but I can never see it in the same way.
    
    I agree with Jon Callas, if you are feeling uncomfortable, now is
    the time to say something... talk it out and come to some sort of
    agreement, before one of you feel smothered, and you lose out on
    what might be a good relationship....

    Just my four cents worth..
    
    Gale    

    	In the note about the "Big C," quite a few people recommended
    	to Jill that she give the man some space, but it kind of sounds
    	like what happened was that he reacted in a way that Jill saw
    	as initially positive (in terms of his needing LESS space once
    	she was willing to offer him more,) but that the changes turned
    	out to be not nearly enough to make Jill happy (if I interpreted
    	your note in this topic correctly, Jill.)  :)
    
    	The main thing to understand is that there is not necessarily
    	a "cure" for a person's not wanting to spend more time with
    	you (whether you give him more space, less space, an ultimatim
    	or convince him that he is being unreasonable.)  No matter what
    	you say to him (or how you feel,) you may never convince him
    	that he needs to change.  Even if you *did* convince him to
    	change, it could always backfire on you later (meaning that
    	his original reluctance could come out to you in other ways
    	that are even less fun than what you are experiencing now.)

    	As others have said, the main thing you have to figure out
    	is whether or not you can live with this kind of relationship
    	(spending less time together than you would like) and be happy.
    	It may sound unfair, but there is no good way to compromise
    	in a situation where one person does not want to be with the
    	other at certain times.  (Just think how you would feel if
    	someone convinced you to be somewhere that you didn't want to
    	be for X number of nights per week.  I don't know about you,
    	but I, myself, would react rather badly to that.  I would
    	start resenting the person fairly quickly, I think.)

    	You need to decide what's right for you in this (because you
    	already know what he wants.)  Things could change somewhere
    	down the road, but there is no guarantee of that.  If you
    	count on it, you could be very disappointed.
    
    	You might try stopping to think about what all this free time
    	could mean to you (in case there is some personal project or
    	hobby you've been dying to do, or in the event that there is
    	personal business on your end that needs work.)  It may turn
    	out that you can think of a few tremendous advantages in having
    	so much time to yourself (in which case, you and he no longer
    	have a problem!)
    
    	Best luck, in any case.  I know this can't be easy for either
    	of you to be going through.
    
    							   Suzanne

    
  2 people can be in love and spend 95% of their non-work time together
    and be very happy.
    
    or 2 people can spend 99% of their free time together and get
    sick of each other....
    
    or 2 people can spend one or 2 days a week together and be
    very happy...
    or not be happy about it all....
    
    1 person may want to spend all their free time together while
    the mate only wants to spend 40-50%....
    
    it's all different
    it all depends...
    what can you take?
    how much can you give?
    how much do you want to give...or take?
    how little or how much are you willing to settle for?
    
    i've been in relationships that i spent all my free time in
    and i've been in relationships where we only saw each other once
    or twice a week....
    and been happy in both
    and been unhappy in both....

    Its not the amount of time that counts its the quality.
    
    I have run into this problem before a few times.
    I have eventualy gotten out of the relationship because the deman
    on my time was too great. I need time and space to myself to do
    things for myself like:Think,clean house,read,visit family & friends
    ,ect. The last time i encountered this I wwas dating a woman that
    wanted me with her whenever I was not here at work. She lived in
    her own apartment which was smallish and low maintence. I on the
    other hand live in a 4 bedroom house with a large yard pets to care
    for couldent find enough time to spend all of my off time with her.
    Granted I'm a bachelor that dosent lead the neatest lifestyle all
    the time so I need time to catch up. Now I suppose that I could
    have asked her over to either help or watch me clean house but 
    thats not as easy as it sounds. I dont feel real comfortible asking
    someone to clean up *my* mess and if I do the work(while she watches)
    I feel like I'm neglecting her.
    I was often made to feel guilty/selfish because I needed time so
    even tho every other aspect of our relationship was great I bailed
    out I just couldent handle it.
    Let go a little and you may find he wants to spend more time with
    you than you thought because the pressure is off.
    
    -j

    re.15
    Alan, I think your friend is dating my ex girlfriend from -.1 8^)
    
    -j

    My SO and I spend all of our time together.  I really enjoy our
    time together because not only are we lovers, we're best friends.
    
    I enjoy going out for a romantic evening together, but sometimes
    when we go out we act silly.  We're just "chumming" around.  We
    share all the same interests and enjoy all the same activities.
    I think this is the main reason that we spend all of our time together,
    well........that and the fact that we're engaged!
    
    BUT, sometimes I feel that I'm neglecting my own needs and my chores
    around the house.  I *do* enjoy all of our time together but at
    the same time I need time alone to take care of myself.  I don't
    do this nearly often enough; I sometimes stay home on Sat. until
    the early afternoon taking care of my chores.  Every now and then
    I'll take one night during the week to take care of things I need
    to do, look at wedding gowns, or spend time with friends.  This
    is *very* good for our relationship because one night without seeing
    each other makes the following evening much more special.
    
    I think that this is perfect for us because we *both* enjoy spending
    all of our time together.  If he decides that he wants a night off,
    I give him his space.  I respect him enough to do that and he's
    the same way with me.
    
    If you're not happy in the relationship, my advice would be to see
    other people when you're away from him (after telling him you want
    to do this!).  I've had *several* relationships in my time that
    I now can't understand why I stayed in them.  I believe that in
    order to have a healthy relationship you need to be happy with it,
    of course.  It doesn't seem as though you are.

    I don't believe a relationship should exist unless *both* partners
    are happy with the relationship and where it's heading.
    
    Hope this helped!
    
    Denise
    

	Gail,

		Putting pressure on your so will not do any good.  He 
	obviously needs time of his own to do his own things. Perhaps
	he is not as commited to the relationship as you are. 

	I recall you said in the "big c" note that you backed off and
	he realized what you ment to him. Why not try it again?

			
			good luck   Dave

    Gail,
    
    	Wow! I don't know how much I can contribute to this discussion
    which has not already been hit on. It's true that every person has
    a different idea of how much time that person should spend with
    their SO. Unfortunately, when one member wants much more time together
    than the other, a self-destructive situation usually develops where
    one partner feels neglected and the other becomes irritated and
    constrained. Often this leads to a one-sided relationship resulting
    in a lower self-esteem in the person desiring more time together
    and guilt in the second partner may turn into ambivalence.
       You can usually tell when your SO feels that you are infringing
    upon their space. Look for feedback. You should be hearing the same
    types of things that you are saying to your SO. If you are not,
    something is wrong. Try holding back. An unfortunate fact of human
    psychology is that people are not easily satisfied with what they
    can easily get and covet what they don't have. Let your SO contact
    you and make the arrangements for meeting over the next couple of
    weeks. You may find that when you are not pushing it, your SO will
    pick up the slack on his own. If you find that this is not working,
    then you may need to decide whether or not you are happy with the
    relationship as it stands and the amount of time you spend together.
    If it comes to this point, be sure that you tell your SO how important
    it is to you and how crucial it is to your relationship.
    
    	Good Luck!

    re .21 > Let go a little and you may find he wants to spend more time with
           > you than you thought because the pressure is off.
    
    I like that point, I think it is quite relavent to my situation.
    I think this whole issue had snowballed and some pressure was being
    felt on both sides. I think the idea to try and back off a little
    would be well worth the effort. It has always been difficult for
    me to work in that middle ground. I've always been an all or nothing
    at all person. I think this point might be a middle ground I can
    work around, as could he. ...the incredibly obvious isn't always
    the easiest to see.
    
    re .24  Luckly the Big C is no longer an issue. In fact it was my
    SO that encouraged me to seek the advice of others. Who better to
    turn to than the H_R community. We both recognized the problem and
    are determined to work out a compromise for the sake of peace in
    the relationship. Had there been less commitment it would have been
    easy to take advise such as been offered here of "Go find someone
    who can meet this need". That, as I said in the Big C note, is not
    what a commitment is all about.  

    And BTW:  My So and I sat down last night and went through the
    responses of this note, we discussed and considered the points brought
    up. It made for some useful communication. We thank you for all
    your input.
    
    Gail

I don't normally follow this conference but this note was sent my way by a
friend for comment and I can't help throwing in my 2� worth...

As technically oriented folks, we have to guard against trying define a human
interaction in hard and fast rules.  Several previous respondents have talked
of "defining the parameters" of the relationship.  It's an easy trap to fall in
and I'll bet many of us have done so at one time or another -- I sure have! 
What this approach fails to recognize is that we are not microprogrammable gate
arrays, bound by some sense of logical (?) behavior, however obscure.

I also get the distinct impression this inability to agree on how much time to
spend together is a symptom rather than the actual problem.  Jon gets at the
same thing -- locate and treat the real problem.

In any relationship, there are going to be times when one has to accept a
circumstance that is less optimal than desired; that's the nature of
compromise. The difficulty arises when either a) no compromise is possible or
b) only one member of the relationship yields.  You both have to be willing to
bend towards the other.  Attempting to establish inflexible "boundary
parameters" only gets in the way of achieving a true resolution.

-r
    

    Whew, that's a lot of replies to wade through, but I didn't want
    to reply before reading them.  Somewhere about .6 or .7, I remember
    thinking of one of my measurements of a relationship - do I enjoy
    spending time with the other person more than I enjoy my time alone?
    To me, if I don't prefer time with the other person to being
    alone, then I wouldn't commit myself to them exclusively.  (I guess
    what I'm saying is, if he doesn't want to spend *lots* of time
    with you, then why does he have SO status?)  To me, an SO is someone
    you *do* spend most of you away-from-work time with; but then, I'm
    one of those people who gets real involved in a relationship I'm
    committed to.
    
    I was in a situation similar to yours once.  He didn't want to spend
    as much time together as I did, but he didn't put any restrictions
    on me, either (which I would have been only too willing to put upon
    myself, if I got what I needed from him).  Anyway, I dated other
    guys, and had other male friends that I spent time with - they knew
    about the other fellow from the start, that he was my primary interest,
    and there'd be no hanky-panky.  And he knew I went out with others
    when he wouldn't see me, and never objected to that; however, I
    don't think he ever went out with anyone else - he just needed time
    alone or with his best friends.  We eventually broke up, because
    he never did give me what I needed emotionally.
    As for backing off, I did that at one point and things improved
    for a while, but we didn't resolve anything.          
    
    What I've noticed about myself recently is that I get so wrapped
    up in a relationship that if I don't have other interests, I depend
    on that relationship for most of my happiness.  When I get excited
    about doing something else (like taking evening classes), then I
    feel better about myself, more well-adjusted, and more independent.
    Then I can quit whining about someone not giving me what I want
    from them, and we're both happier, he stops feeling pressured, and
    I ultimately get pretty much what I wanted in the first place.
    
    However, I still think of an SO-type relationship being more like
    a live-together (or almost) type situation.  Sure, when your
    schedules or commitments conflict, you each do your own thing,
    and don't make each other feel guilty about that.  I think the
    bicycle rider's girlfriend (from a previous response) is way out
    of line.  But I don't understand how a relationship where there's
    a commitment by both parties can have time restrictions put on it.
    [Quotas??]
                       
    I will say that I've heard things similar to what your SO has
    expressed, and I've never understood that attitude.  I finally
    figured I just hadn't met the right one.
    
    Good luck to you (both).
    
    Paula

    Gail,
    
    I honestly believe that people need a certain amount of "space"
    for themselves.  About 3 years ago I broke up with my SO because
    he wanted all of our time spent together.  Im a very independant
    person and it really bothered me that he never went out with the
    guys, never went up flying WITHOUT me (his personal hobby), etc.
    while I like to shop with "the girls", have dinner with my best
    friend every now and then WITHOUT the guys, sit alone and read books,
    listen to music etc.
    
    Once he was gone I missed him terribly because I really did love
    him. He called me, we got together and talked out this very problem.
    Now, 3 years later we live together and have a wedding  planned.
    We have as equal an amount of time together as we do apart - I 
    understand that his wanting to be with me is his way of showing
    me how much he cares.  He understands that I love him just as much
    but need those times to chum with friends, spend a Saturday shopping
    with my mom or even seclude myself in another room with a good book.
    And best of all he's started to get together with his friends, started
    to fly alot more than he used to and went back to school a couple
    of nites a week.  
    
    I think now he realizes how important this time is and we get a
    real kick out of sitting on the couch with some nice cozy music
    or having a nice meal and telling each other what we did that day.
    I think that even though we have this time apart, the first one
    we want to share it all with when its over is each other. Its brought
    us much closer together and it makes the days when we are together
    "full-time" exciting and special.
    
    Maureen
    

    
re:    Maureen, what a lovely reply.   I totally agreed with you and 
had a similair relationship acouple years ago.  I also felt pretty
smuthered when I couldn't go out with my friends and *just* have time
alone.  I feel to be a complete person you have to have the best of 
both worlds and lucky you, you seem to have found it.
    

I'm going to apologize now if this turns out to be a long note....warning!

I love going out with my friends or my sister and sometimes having friends over.
My husband enjoys doing things with other people once he is doing it but will
not initiate.  The only time he will seek male companionship is when I am going
out with the girls.  He seems to hate to be alone, although he won't admit it.
Maybe he can't admit it to himself.  If I have friends over and spend my time
visiting with them in a different room, so as not to bother him and able to have
private conversations (girl talk they don't feel comfortable saying in front of
him) he acts totally irrational when they leave.  One time I had 3 girl friends
over and we were in the study wrapping presents while he was in the living room.
That night when I got into bed, he gave a big huff and took his pillow to
another room.  It took me almost an hour to get him to explain why he was upset
and even then he didn't give me the real reason. (I guess he didn't know why he
was upset himself)  I have since figured out that he is jeolous when I have a
good time with someone other than him.  I try to let him know that I need to be
with the girls once in a while and that it doesn't mean I'm avoiding him.  I
don't go out drinking, just shopping or visiting....  I keep telling him to go
out with his friends, that he needs his time away from me too.  But, unless I'm
planning something with another man's wife he won't think of getting together
with that man.  There was a point where I would have to arrange a "play mate"
for him before I finalized plans for myself. 

Lately I have been getting frustrated and bitchy for no good reason and after
reading these replies, I now know why.  I'm smothered!  The only time I get to
myself is when he's in school. (he gives my about 5 hours a week when school is
in session). If I should go out with friends while he is locked up in his
room studying, he'll be jeolous again and want to go with me even though he
can't really give up his study time.  2 more years of school, full time!  Can
I handle it? 

Thanks.  Now that I got that off my chest, it's time to go home. :^)

    Whatever you do don't give up that time for yourself.  I tried that
    for a while and it only made things worse. I resented him for HAVING
    to give up my time because he would sulk and then I was miserable.
    
    I guess the best thing you can do is talk to him, let him know that
    he is very important part of your life but you have other personal
    needs as well.  Id also make a habit of getting out of the house
    when you see your friends, etc.  Its hard to have a good time when
    you know that someone else is sulking in another room.  I think
    that once Ron got used to the fact that I was not going to give
    up these times for him that he eventually got used to it, and once
    faced with being in the house for a certain amount of time he started
    calling his friends again or using the time for his own little
    projects.
    
    Another important part of it is that once I got home from whatever
    it was that I did I made a point out of sharing that with him, laughing
    over the things that happened during the day - the next day Id make
    him a special meal for supper and do something special with him
    in appreciation for understanding (or trying to) the need for the
    time I had to have to myself.  Its not a problem for us anymore.
    
    I wish you a lot of luck 
    
    Maureen

    Ask the 1 - 24 test. Of the 24 the hours in the day how many
    would he like to spend with you. Ask yourself the same question.
    You then have a *simple* measure of your feelings for each other.
    
    Keep it simple and forget boring things like work etc.
    
    The next question is can you accept the difference. One or two hours
    difference is easy. More than that might mean that you need someone
    who is all or nothing and he requires someone to fill the time between
    the chores.

    Good luck.

    To explain the 1 - 24 test. 
    I could never feel comfortable with a complete stranger watching me
    clean my teeth, shoes etc. I would feel the need to converse if there were
    a complete stranger there while reading the news paper. 
    
    On the other hand... With someone who is rated up near 24...
    
    24/24 is perhaps not possible. At the begining somewhere up here
    is necessary to get things started.
    
    To comment on the other notes. The *playing hard to get* may bring
    short term returns. If you are *playing* then it a lot of fun. If
    on the other hand you are being serious?

    Good luck

   > To comment on the other notes. The *playing hard to get* may bring
   > short term returns. If you are *playing* then it a lot of fun. If
   > on the other hand you are being serious?

    
    I agree, playing hard to get is a short term solution, very short.
    I feel it falls into the "playing games" catagory and hopefully
    2 adults don't need to be playing these kinds of games. I for one
    refuse to play pretend, ie: "I'm going to pretend that I don't want
    to see you." In the hope that I will be viewed as more desirable because
    I am less available. I think that's crap. 
    
    I don't really understand what your talking about as far as rating
    someone, but I don't think that that is any solution to real time
    problems. Maybe that idea will benefit others.
    
    Gail
    
    

    
    	Love and defend his time away from the relationship - just as
    much - as you'd love and defend your own time - wherever you choose
    to spend it.                                        
    
    	Joe Jas