Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    
    	How Criticism is taken generally depends on the context it's
    given in. If you say "Well, dont do it that way anymore then and
    you wont get hurt"; it's a lot different than if you say "I find
    that way cumbersome and even a little dangerous - I'd be glad to
    show you a better approach if you'd like". The difference being
    the first is chock full of *negative* contractions and *negative*
    motivation, the second sentence is, er, not.
    
    	My belief is that when people hear negative contexts in criticism,
    they immediately equate their self with the behavior being criticized.
    Of course, your intent is to only criticize the behavior, not the
    person, so you have to be very careful contextually to make sure
    that you do just that. You may have to stop and think for a minute
    for the best word choice, but that will be a *lot* easier than trying
    to explain yourself out of unintentionally hurting someone's feelings, 
    cause they "took you the wrong way" or whatever.
    
    	Joe Jas

    Bob, 
    You cannot make anyone change anything.  They have to want to change
    for themselves.  So  the task is not to get them to change but to
    get them to want to change.  One way to start that ball rolling
    is to point out verbally the things the person does right.  Try
    this for a while to build the desire to hear good stuff and you
    might find the change will occur without prodding.  If some positive
    reinforcement doesn't work try "I" messages.  eg: I'm have trouble
    dealing with the mess again here. Is there some way I can help to
    change this?"  You now own your share of the problem ( after all,
    you are the one bugged by the behavior you want changed. The person
    may feel very comfortable with things just as they are) and are offering
    to help execute a change.  This takes a lot of negative charge out
    of the situation.  If this approach doesn't work, you may have to
    accept it and make the best of a bad situation.

    Watch your pronouns--
    	YOU have a problem =  attack on one's personal worth
    	WE have a problem  =  better but still loaded for confrontation
        I  have a problem  =  leads to more positive communication
    
    Just my opinion
    
    Mary Ann

	I was lucky enough to take a course (given by DEC Ed. Services in CXO)
	entitled "Giving and Taking Criticism : Getting the Critical Edge".

	I think the last reply hit the nail on the head.
	You can't change someone. They have to do the changing.

	The motivation for criticism is to evoke change.

	People have to stop perpetuating the myth that criticism has to be
	negative.

	Give your spouse incentive to change, and commit to help her change
	and then change will be more likely to happen.

	According to the instructor, productive criticism:

	1.	is Strategic (planned)
	2.	improves Self Esteem
	3.	is Improvement Oriented
	4.	Acknowledges Interaction
	5.	is Flexible
	6.	is Timing Oriented
	7.	is in the Helping Spirit.

	Someone who criticizes should make it clear that it is
	their opinion and specify exactly what behavior changes they
	are looking for (and why) and allow the other person to respond.

	The above are some of the things I learned in the class.
	I highly recommend the class to anyone who is interested
	(everyone could use some instruction on this subject).

	The instructor was Henry Weisenger (sp?).
	He wrote a book (with the same name as the course title)
	which all the students got a free copy of.
	I read the book and highly recommend it also.

Chuck

    No matter how positively you phrase it, you can't hide the fact
    that if you want the other person's behavior to change, that means
    there is something you don't like about the other person. At work,
    it doesn't matter so much because you don't expect everyone you
    work with to like you as a person.  But at home, with the person
    who's supposed to be on your side, it can be verrrrrry threatening
    no matter how positively you try to phrase it. 

    So if you really want your partner to change some behavior or
    another, make sure you don't bring it up the week his project was
    called on the carpet because the documentation is unreadable. He's
    just going to feel picked on. (I learned that one last fall.) 
    
    --bonnie

    In home relationships could I suggest that 'You' change and not
    try to change your partner? 
    
    You,the one offering the criticism is the one with the problem not
    your partner.
    
    You the one offering the criticism is the one that knows what is
    wrong and what corrective action is required. You also have the
    power to effect the change.
    
    Life becomes a lot easier when we learn to accept people as they
    are. People are not posesions like houses to be build and modified.
    We should stop building people and start accepting them.
    
    If the chemistry is there the partner will see that they are being
    accepted without changes and modifications. The process to accept
    the other is then easier. The process to evolve into a more acceptable
    partner is easier. 

    As soon as you see your partner as being need of change, a competion
    sets in and from a competition comes a loser and a winner. No winner
    wants to be associated with a loser. The process  of winning is self 
    defeating.
    Stephen
    

    	In a relationship, I personally feel it is alright to discuss
    things that bother one another, but not to expect change. Too many
    people think the other half should change, yet never consider the
    point they they may be in error. 
    	To grow in a relationship there must be change without a doubt,
    but it has to be mutual. Expecting or forcing change only leads
    to a one sided relation. There are many things in a relation that
    the other half does not readily accept. To learn to deal with those
    inconsistancies is the best part of loving and growing.
    	So i suggest if one wants change in a relationship, they should
    first look to themself and see if they should in fact do the changing.
    

RE: .5

'the person with the criticism has the problem and should change.'

Well, suppose your husband is an alcholic, and has a habit of going out, getting
frunk, coming home and beating you.  In that situation what is the wife's
problem, and how should the wife change to get rid of the problem?

Jim. 

>'the person with the criticism has the problem and should change.'

>...suppose your husband is an alcholic, and has a habit of going out, getting
>drunk, coming home and beating you.  In that situation what is the wife's
>problem, and how should the wife change to get rid of the problem?

The wife's problem is that she is perpetuating a dysfunction by maintaining the 
relationship.  A change of address would be a good start.

       
       
       	Getting "frunk" Jim?  Been suckin back a cool one or two
       	yourself?? :-) :-)
       
       							mike

   re.6 we are following the same line of thought. The only part I am
    not sure about and if I am permitted to be a little pedantic. -
    is, when does the discussing stop and the criticism start. Constructive
    or otherwise. I believe that we give enough sign to show what pleases
    and what angers. Before the point comes that we have to 'discuss',
    the cope with it mode should be switched on, where we say how am I
    going to live with it.

According to some authorities, there ain't no such thing as
'constructive' criticism. 

On the job, if one really wants to be constructive, one should not
criticize; it's best to simply describe the result that should be
strived for. Wording to the effect that "You did a very good job
here, and I really like your style. How about adding ..." are pretty
effective. 

On the other hand, if one just wants to let off steam, by all means:
criticizing is very enjoyable; but the term 'constructive' should
not be used. 

'Nuff said. 

-- Ron 

    Re: .0
    
    I read, and .. reread ... the first t wo lines in .0, and then
    I read them again. I fail to see the connection between my base
    note and many of the first few replies ...
    
    
    0.5 Hits home real hard, because that is exzactly what happened in two
    very specific instances, and for some cases is the only avenue to
    pursue. 
    
    Jim (GBH) founda case (probably one of many) where it is quite clear
    that the correct approach isn't one of text book quality, but very
    pragmatically takes each case on its own merit, and applies the
    common sense approach.
    
    I have no intent of "changing" my SO. Not two-for-one, and not a
    for a clone.
    
    By the way: Fantabulous IS an english word. It means (according
    to Larouse): Superchouette ! (If chouette is ok, the superchouette
    is fantabulous ...).
    
    
    I came across the topic on criticism in another file, and migrated
    its memories to here, for a different aspect on the same old crud.
    
    Thanks to all, and to all .. Bob Soir !
    
    Bob
    

    
    Some people handle "positive growth suggestions" real well!
    Some people assume that any "positive growth suggestion" is
    nothing more than critisism and are insulted by this and react
    negatively.
    
    I try real hard to accept it as "positive growth suggestions"
    and i try real hard to NOT react negatively...
    
    unfortunately, the reality is, deep inside, wether i show it
    or not, i'm hurt by many/most "positive growth suggestions"...
    especially the valid ones...
    
    the ones that are less valid (in my opinion) usually don't
    bother me very much....
    
    possible answer = it depends on how well developed you are and
    how well you handle and understand "positive growth suggestions".
    
    some people (not many) are developed/mature enough to handle them
    fairly well....
    others are not....
    
    "and you think YOU are perfect?"
    is a common retort to a postive growth suggestion...
    
    i suppose the trick is to realize all of this and work at not
    being defensive and really attempting to understand what they
    are suggesting and why....
    
    i hope, some day, to grow to the point that i can
    a. handle these positive growth suggestions perfectly well.
    b. not need them.
    

    I don't know if this belongs here, or in a new note, or has
    been addressed elsewhere.  What if what you would like to
    change in your SO, spouse, or whatever, is to increase the
    quantity, intimacy, and depth of communication?  Most of us
    would probably agree that good communication is vital to a
    good, long-lasting, intimate relationship.  What if it comes
    easily for one partner, and the other feels threatened by it?
    How do you even begin to address it, deal with it, do something
    about it?  How can one partner make the other feel that it's
    safe to open up like that, that "talking" doesn't imply criticism,
    and so on?