Conference quark::human_relations-v1

       
       	I think we (me and my family) dealt well with my Dads
       	illness and subsequent death..  He had terminal cancer
       	and was going downhill rapidly. Mom and I, the solid 
       	rocks of the family, talked with the doctor. I asked him 
       	"Gimme it straight Paul, he's dying with no chance by now. 
       	We've tried everything and all we can do is keep him as 
	comfortable as possible, huh?" He said "You're right Mike.. 
       	We could try some additional things like more chemo but that'll 
       	only prolong it at this point" I looked at my Mom and we both 
       	said something like "Just keep him as comfortable as possible 
       	and let him go when he wants"..  It's a really shitty decision 
       	to make, you know? He went from 3mg of Morphine an hour to 
       	33 (Yes, THIRTY-THREE!!) mg an hour when he died.. He wouldn't
        give up and went one month after they said "Any day now"
       
       	So, after all that, I think it's best to do what you can. If
       all that is possible is the above then that's the best you can
       do.. If there IS a chance for someone then you owe it to them
       to try. If not then make life as comfortable as humanly possible
       and let them go...  Seeing someone in pain really hurts. It
       takes alot out of you and in order to make the right decision
       you really have to pull yourself away from it and look at it
       in as clear a light as you possibly can... It's not easy. Trust
       me...
       
       							mike

    My little girl, Tina, had Cystic Fibrosis, a disease for which there
    is no cure.  From the time she was 2 months old we fought to keep
    her alive.  We tried everything possible.  Finally at age 6 1/2
    it was very apparent we were losing the battle.  Her doctors came
    to me and told me she was indeed going to die and how far did I
    want to go to keep her alive.  To me "alive" does not mean suffering,
    connected to machines, totally out of it, to extend life for *maybe*
    another two weeks.  It was a very difficult thing to tell the doctors 
    enough is enough and to just let nature take it's course but I was
    so glad they gave me the choice.  I too was told all they could
    really do is keep her comfortable until her time came. 
    I think if there is even a glimmer of hope, fine, but when there are 
    just no alternatives why put that person through all of that pain
    for an extra few weeks of existance.  It almost killed me to lose
    my baby but I think it would have been much worse if I had to watch 
    her suffer.  She went peacefully and comfortably in my arms.
    Oh yes another thing I wanted to mention is, the reason I have so
    much respect for the doctors at Childrens Hospital is because they
    were always 100% honest with both Tina and I about her condition.
    I hate it when doctors are not honest with patients.  They(patients)
    have a right to know and make their own decisions.  I feel like
    I just rambled on so I'll stop now. 
    
    I hope I answered some of your questions Bonnie....
      
    Peace,
    
    Marie
    
    

    I agree with .1 and .2   If there is no "future" for the patient
    then keep them as comfortable as possible.  My father had a stroke
    12 years previous to his death.  Over those years he slowly went
    downhill with the last year and a half in a nursing home (which
    could easily be another topic of dicsussion).  It got to the point
    that he would be rushed to the hospital once a month....you could
    almost clock it.  The last six months of his life were hell and
    the last six weeks just about caused my mother and I to "lose" it.
    The doctors were very honest with us....it was just a matter of
    time.  Each time he went to the hospital he would be on a respirator
    and IVs, heart monitors, etc.  Finally, my mother asked my brother
    sister and I how we felt about "no more machines".  It was hard,
    but we agreed that it was best to keep him comfortable and to let
    nature's course be run.  I remember looking at the doctor when my
    mother told him and I swear there was a look of relief...not that
    his job would be easier, but that my father would no longer suffer.
    There was no hope for him and he had nothing to look forward to
    but the nursing home and hospital.  My father had his mind and sense
    of humor right up to the end....his "kid brother" (one from Boston
    one from San Diego) visited him on a Tuesday afternoon.  He passed
    away in his sleep that night.
    
    Letting a loved one go is the hardest decision one may ever have
    to make.  But you learn that it is the quality of life that matters
    and not the quantity.
    
    P.
    

Before nursing homes, the elderly lived in their own homes or their families
homes.  Often the elderly would be so disabled as to merely be a presence in the
household. Death often came suddenly before there was a chance of machine
"intervention", or quietly at night.  There was no such reason for sending the
elderly as 'you can't give him the care he needs'.   Families did the best they
could; nursing homes were not a possibility.

I feel that dying at home is preferable to living having nothing to look forward
to but dying. 

Jim

    
    
    	My SO's dad has leukemia.  For the past year he's had
    and infection in his foot that seems to be impossible to
    get rid of.  Cary is scared to lose his father.  He's only
    told me this once.  I'm just hoping I'll know what to do
    when the time comes around.  His father is a strong-willed
    man and I'm sure will 'fight' with God when he wants to take
    him.  He's only 60 now and has a few good years ahead of him
    but there's no way to tell when it can change.
    
    JJ
    

    Elizabeth Kubla Ross has written a number of books on Death and
    Dying.  I found her books offered me some consolation (if that is
    possible) after my four year old son died suddenly.  In his case,
    there wasn't any time for any discussion over whether or not to
    keep him alive on machines, etc.  He was a healthy four year old
    one day and dead the next from a rare blood virus.  Saying that
    I was in shock is an understatement.  It took me about 2 years
    before I could resume any kind of normal life activity.  I always
    wondered if it is easier to lose someone unexpectedly like this
    or have death prolonged for an indefinite period of time.  I never
    found the answer to this question.  I guess it's all relative.
    
    Sue
    

    On April 5th, a very close friend of mine was killed in a head-on
    car accident.  She died instantly leaving behind 2 daughters and
    a husband.  About 500 of us were at the funeral.  My daughter and
    her daughter are best friends so it was really painful for the kids.
    Jackie was a Brownie troup leader, owned the day care center in
    the little town, had been a teacher of the year...  I was in shock
    for days before the funeral.
    
    The day of her funeral was to be her 42nd birthday.  Her husband
    Jack is a policeman who has seen lots of people die, but this was
    too close.  The way he handled the funeral was the way I will want
    it done when I die.  There was food for 200 people at his house
    so after the burial, everyone was invited over to the house.
    We all cried together, laughed together and talked about Jackie's
    life and how much we would miss her.  The kids played in the basement
    and helped each other deal with it.
    
    By the time we left, we were exhausted emotionally and physically.
    We consoled each other and survived the grief through experiencing
    it fully.  Jackie will is still alive in our collective memories.

    I have been around a lot of people with terminal illnesses and I
    never could accept their death.  But after caring for them over
    a period of time, I began to think like the rest of you.  If a person
    was suffering, it was better for them to go.  If there were no chances
    at all, then it was better, if they needed machines to survive,
    then it was not really living.  Etc.  But what still comes to my
    mind today is that there are MIRACLES.  And I don't know when those
    miracles may happen, and who am I to stand in the way.
    
    When I see someone suffer, and watch not only the dying, but those
    around them that care and are hurting, that is when I get angry
    and then start believing that well, they are suffering, there are
    no chances, etc.
    
    I am very personally affected by a dying loved one.  I begin to
    think about me, what is best for me, the family, etc.  Not the dying,
    It is like the dying doesn't know what is going on with the ones
    grieving and that the grieving are now the ones receiving the sympathy.
    I used to feel bad about these feelings, but now believe that they
    are just addressing all those involved and I realize now that it
    allows everyone to talk and share and cry and express all the pain
    and fear that they are feeling.
    
    I don't think it will ever be a task that anyone will ever master.
    
    It is a part of life.  And dying is much easier for me to accept when 
    life has been enjoyed.
         
    I guess the only thing I can do is to pray to god to help and to
    make the best decision.
    
    
    

    
    I had a younger brother who was struck by a hit and run driver 6
    years ago.  He sustained massage head injuries and was in a coma
    for 9 months.  The doctors said if he ever did wake up he would
    be a vegetable for the rest of his life (as it was).  It really
    used to kill me when I would visit him because he kept having all
    kinds of problems from a head shunt to help alleviate the swelling
    to bedsores, infections, pneumonia, 3 heart attacks, it was the
    worst time of my life.  My parents used to visit him everyday -
    hoping against hope.  He finally gave up and died on Christmas Day
    which was truly a blessing.  It really hurt my whole family to see
    this 22 year old, 6 ft, 230 pd dynamic person dwindle away to 80
    pds when he left us.  I still haven't gotten over it, and if the
    doctors had some pill or shot they could have given him becasue
    there was never any hope of him coming back and being a "real" person
    again, I think I would have given it to him - just so he didn't
    suffer anymore.
    
    He was a great person and I miss him.  Bye the way, they never did
    find the A**hole who hit him and just left him there.  I sometimes
    wonder how that animal feels.