Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    
    First of all, you can fight each instance if you choose by going
    to court.

    Second, if you do not feel the officer is treating you in a
    professional manner, ask for his badge number.  By Massachusetts
    law he is obligated to give it to you.  You can then phone the
    local Police Chief.
    
    Third, you can check with the registry of motor vehicles by 
    anonymous telephone call whethor or not it is legal for a police
    office to let you drive a car with an expired sticker.  I believe
    it is not.  This would help you beat the fine he gave you and set
    him straight.
    
    Fourth, you can call the Police Chief and speak with him.
    
    Understand that the way a policeman operates is usually based upon
    the way the local Police Chief runs his force.  You may not get
    anywhere with the Chief, but then you might.
  
    Keep a log of all this.  If it continues over a period of time,
    you can file a grievance against the Clinton Police Department with
    the Clinton Board of Selectmen.
    
    I grew up the daughter of a police officer.  There were obvious
    differences in how the force was run whenever a new Chief of Police
    came on board.
    
    I wish you luck.  You CAN fight city hall.
    
     - Beckie    

    reply .0
    
    
    you got off lucky with the inspection sticker. i was recently fined
    $75 dollars in MA for not having an inspection sticker on a brand
    new car. it was a state tropper that fined me. and i checked and
    it is illegal to drive without an inspection sticker and you can
    be fined up to a max of $100.
    
  -bss-

    
    
    About not knowing why you were stopped...
    
    One night I was driving a friend (who happened to be a son of a
    cop) home and I pulled into a deserted business to turn around (missed
    his street) the cop pulled in right behind me and blocked me in.
     When the officer came around to my car he asked for my license
    and registration.  Eric took it from me leaned across me and asked
    what was going on, we hadn't been speeding or anything illegal.
    
    I thought he was being wise..but you have a right to know!  If you
    ask why he has to tell you specifically why, until then you don't
    have to give him a scarp of paper if he asks for it.
    
    However about the two front license plates...I just got off the
    phone with the Fitchburg Registry and it illegal if you have a low
    number or vanity plate to not have a front and back license plate.
    
    Call and talk to the chief that will probably get you the furthest
    than anything else good luck!!!
    
                                  Debbi

I was recently pulled over by a cop on 495. I was on the leftmost
lane, following the same car --and followed by the same cop-- for a
number of miles. Speed was 60-65 MPH. I saw the police car behind
me, but wasn't too worried because EVERYBODY was going the same
speed. I don't think we were even passing the cars on our right -
like I said, most everybody was going at the same speed. 

Well, he finally pulled me over. The car in front of me saw the blue
lights in his rear view mirror, thought HE was being pulled over,
and stopped too. 

So, the cop says to me the other car wasn't speeding as much as I
was. He walks over and lets the other car go. Me, I get a ticket for
going 65-70. 

I decide to fight it in court and ask for a hearing. The clerk in 
the Clinton court listens to me say that if, by the cop's own 
statement, the other car wasn't speeding, I wasn't speeding either, 
since we had been going at the same speed for quite a while. He then 
looks me in the face and says: "I have no problem here. You were 
going over 55 MPH. I find you responsible".

I say: "Your honor. NO ONE goes 55 MPH on 495 at 5:30 in the 
afternoon. I drive 75 miles a day on that road and I know".

The clerk says: "My wife drives 55 MPH on 495, I'm sure". Judging 
by his looks, his wife aught to be 120 in the shade, so maybe she 
does. If so, she's the only one... But that's beside the point. I 
paid my 50 bucks and relearned an old lesson:

	The cops are there not protect you against crime.
	They are there to effect a smooth transfer of your
	hard earned cash into the town coffers.

Some towns are better in this respect. Some towns are worse (you can 
say 'hungrier'). Lexington is the worst in my experience. Cops there are 
told to step up the effort when the stream of money slows... At 
least in one case, I saw a cop hide and write a ticket from behind a 
corner, so the owner --who was standing right beside the car-- won't 
jump in and leave the scene of an expired meter crime...

Apparently, Clinton is also a 'bad' town. If you fight the ticket, 
do let us know how it turns out. I wish you better luck than mine.

-- Ron

    re .0 
    the worst is yet to come...  don't foget the surcharges....
    1 point for every $50.00 fine.
    
    as for the number of times you've been stopped...  what kind of
    car do you drive?    I owned a bright red Daytona Turbo Z for a
    year and was stopped (not always written up) an average of twice
    a month while commuting with it.  I guess those kind of cars just
    look like they're going faster than the rest of the traffic ...;^)
    
    It seems that sport cars are the target of most of the states finest.
    

    I drive a 1986 Hyundai Excel (not real sporty but certainly practical
    car).
    
    I am not saying that I wasn't at fault when my inspection sticker
    expired, just that most cops I know and talk to say that they would
    have just made sure that I got one right away.  For not having the
    plate on the front, my husband told him the second one was in the
    trunk, I would think that they would just let him get it and throw
    it on.
    
    I know that ignorance of the law is not their problem, but you would
    think that they would at least be human.
    
    In answer to the surcharge stuff, my agent ( a personal friend)
    is beside himself in laughter, since I have never had any kind of
    ticket against me, he thinks this is rather humorous.
    
    I fail to share in his sense of humor, at least not today.
    
      L
    

    I too have shared your experiences but not in Clinton - yet.  Its
    Boylston I watch out for.  
    
    I once got a ticket for not having an inspection sticker  by a State
    Policeman in the morning.  He told me if I got stopped before getting
    the sticker to show the ticket.  Well, that afternoon I got bagged
    in Maynard.  The Cop didn't care what the Statie told me and gave
    me another one.  He said "you work at DEC...you can afford it".
     Well, thats all I needed to hear.  I contested it in court and
    got out of the second ticket.  Hooray.
    
    And then there's Boylston.  The cops there have dozens of hiding
    places all over town.  And every car is equipped with the front
    aiming guns so it doesn't matter if there coming at you or not.
    
    They've justified the expense of my my Radar detector. They lay off the
    trigger until just before they get to you and then its too late.
    Your caught.  
    
    But I did also contest one of their speeding tickets in the Clinton
    Court.  Same crabby magistrate.  But I came prepared with Photos
   and diagrams debunking his charges.  What also helped was that the
    chief was in court and not the actual officer.  Well, the chief
    painted a totally inacuurate story which I was able to demonstrate
    how inaccurate it was.  They had pie on their face, I still got
    stuck paying court costs but won the decision and the ticket was
    dropped.  
    
    You win some and you lose some.........just watch out for the cops
    in Boylston
    
    And while we're at it....watch out for the cops in maynard...they
    don't carry weapons .....they carry stop watches looking for parking
    violators.....DEC doesn't carry enough of the towns expenses that
    they have to augment the treasury with parking tickets.
    
    good luck and make 'em earn their money
    
   
    

  re: 489.7
  
  How come you had to pay court costs...and what are "court costs"?

    
    re: .9
    
    	Yep.  It's on that road right next to the library.  They put
    the stop sign in sometime around Monday and a few people from the	
    LTN facility got nabbed.  Within an hour or so, the 'site' of the
    new sign had been posted to all nodes in this area.
    

    re .0
    
    Are you by any chance Black?  My Black friends seem to get stopped
    the second they start their cars.  Somehow it seems a lot of these
    cops (in New England) think every Black person in a car must be
    up to no good.  One friend got stopped while moving to a new apartment
    and was required to *prove* that the stuff in his car was his!!
    
    Lee

    re .0
    In case you haven't heard, the long time residents of Clinton
    do not like the 'new folks in town'. Clinton was an economically
    depressed area until recently. Now, the price of homes and land
    is skyrocketing along with the population. Long time residents
    blame these economic woes on folks that work for large companies
    (like DEC) and buy up the available land/houses at rates the locals
    can't afford. One of the manifestations of these 'newbies', is that
    they drive nice/new cars. Could be one of the reasons that you get
    'picked on'.
    
    Bob Mc

    No, I'm not black.  My husband had a theory as to why we are getting
    it more than some others in the town.  It seems the complex we moved
    into, The Ridgefield Townhouses, isn't well liked by some of the
    older residents. They are used to having very little, if no traffic
    on thier roads.  Now every morning, there is some traffic.
    Alot of people in our area are DECies.  So we all seem to be leaving
    the complex at the same time.  Just a theory, but it does seem to
    be making alot of sense since the cops are always located just around
    the corner of the exit of the complex.
    
    I do agree with the last reply though, it seemed that whenever my 
    college friend and I left in her car from campus, we stopped for
    one thing or another, but never in  my car.
     

    .12  sorry, I responded before reading your reply.
    Well there's another one to support my husband's theory.
    
    I guess my next question would be, is there any way to fight this?
    Isn't that considered harrasment?
    L
    

    AAAAhh yes. It is spring and the cops are in bloom. They are letting
    you know that they are in control and are reminding us at a costly
    leson that sometimes we can get out of control with spring fever.
    I expect to see more of this as the winter melts into the ground.
    Don't forget the horra stories of the Meorial Holiday Weekend. It
    is their reminder to keep in line. I do not speek for all. This
    is a careful observation that is the passing of the 'Rites of Spring'.
    
    George

    I have to agree with note .12
    
    I normally don't admit it but my family moved to Clinton when I
    was in the 3rd grade and I spent the rest of my young life trying
    to get out of there.  The minute I was old enough to be on my own
    (18) I moved out of town. They do not like anyone who was not born
    and bred in the crumby town.  Another strike I had against me is 
    I'm not Irish (a must for living there).  So, more than likely it's
    because you're not a "townie" and the young punk cop probably is.
    I wish you luck!
    
    (can't tell I loathe the place can ya')
    
    
    

    I read in a magazine a while ago that if you get stopped for speeding
    you should ask to see the readout on the gun.  Something about they
    have to follow you for a certain distance at that speed to have
    it official.  (?)  I don't know if this is true or not.  Also, if
    they tell you they used their radar gun, ask for the serial number
    on it.  Supposedly they have to get them inspected every three months
    or so, if it hasn't been inspected or whatever, then you can't get
    a ticket!  Again, I don't know if this is totally true, but might
    be worth checking out.  Or try it out next time, maybe just the
    fact that you ask for these things will be enough for him to back
    off a little.  (?)
    

    1.  I'm beginning to wonder what all this has to do with
    HUMAN_RELATIONS.  The discussion is starting to sound more like
    SOAPBOX material (though SOAPBOX isn't open anymore, so I hear)..
    
    2.  By all means try to get as much information as you can when
    you are stopped, but don't presume that it will be easy to catch
    the police in an inconsistency.  They are well used to people
    trying these methods.
    
    3.  Arguing with a cop is pointless and even hazardous.  Be polite
    and cooperative and get your information, then take it to court if
    you think you are innocent. 
    
    				Steve

    Fighting it may do no good, as by that time the issue is in another
    arena (the court system); if nothing else, tho', it'll make a
    statement, and release some steam.
    
    One of the best methods I've found for dealing with this kind of
    thing at a _local_ level is to document your experiences
    (similar to what you've done here) in a Letter to the Editor of
    a _local_ paper.
    
    My greatest fear when I did this was of retaliation, which actually
    never materialized.  In addition lots of other people responded
    similarly, and put the local police on notice that their "eager
    beavers" were overplaying their hand.

    Alteria (sp?) motive other than public safety?
    
    Did you know that when cops write a ticket they really do want you
    to take them to court.  Did you know that the state actually pays
    the cope O.T. when they are in court?  So, when a young hot shot
    writes alot of tickets and gets taken to court he actually doesn't
    mind.
    
    I got into a car accident a while ago and the cop wrote me a ticket
    when the other guy was clearly at fault - I even had witnesses to
    the accident.  I took the cop to court and won.  After the case
    was heard the cop stoped me in the hallway and agreed with me that
    I was right all the time.  He then told me about the O.T. story.
    
    
    what-cha-gonna do?
    
    MAC
    

    
    The actual distance a police office must clock you before pulling
    you over for speeding is .25 miles.
    
    Ayer Court will generally through out anything under 10 mph over
    the speed limit - unless, of course, you happen to be a chronic
    speeder.  

        I'm beginning to have serious doubts about the wisdom of this
        entire topic. It has every chance of degenertaing into a "my
        town's better (or more likely more bigotted) than yours" or
        general cop bashing. Given that a good number of DECcies are
        part or full time cops (I've worked with and for a number), and
        that there have to be lots of people from any given town that
        might resent the portrayal oftheir town, there seems to be a lot
        of room here for someone to take offense.
        
        I'm not shuttin this down yet, but please think about the fact
        that this is a corporate document and the fact that the people
        you are characterizing may very well be reading your words.
        
        Thank you,
        JimB.

    
    
    		Not intending to "bash' the police, as I have not had many
    	problems with them, I can't resist this story. I travel route
    	9 to work at 6:45 in the morning from Framingham to Shrewsbury.
    	As I approached the 495 interchange a state trooper was sitting
    	on the median strip. I went past him at a brisk 65 and looked
    	in my rear view mirror to see if he was pursuing. I could see
    	him still sitting there about 1/4 mile away from him, so I relaxed.
    	A few miles down the road he pulled me over, for doing 80 plus!
    	I don't think my little Subaru will go that fast, but he determined
    	that speed because it took him a minute to catch up to me. Nothing
    	to do with the fact that he let me get a mile ahead of him before
    	he gave chase ;-) Anyway I was speeding and deserved a ticket.
    	No problem with that. 
    		However he told me that he had been sitting on the "town
    	line" when he observed me speeding. So I got a ticket for speeding
    	in Southboro and a ticket for speeding in Westboro! Neat, huh???
    	I took it to court and beat one of them, which was all I wanted.
    
    				kevin
  	

        RE .0 / title,
        
        Civil request - please amend the title to read correctly.
        

    Done...  though I am still of the opinion that this note belongs
    in SOAPBOX. 
    
    				Steve

    
    I think -.1's sweeping generalization qualifies as a flame.