Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    first question:
    
    No, you do NOT have to have a lawyer, you can do it all yourself.
    I would suggest seeing a lawyer though, to find out HOW to do it
    all yourself, and pitfalls to watch out for.

    second question:
        
    No, you do NOT have to be leagally separted.  My ex-husband and
    I never were LEGALLY separated, and we got a divorce in Mass.  There
    is a period of time though that you have to not have lived under
    the same roof (I believe)... again, check that out when you see a
    lawyer for number one above.
    
    Gale

    
    You don't have to be legally separated, nor do you want to pay for
    a legal separation.  You become "legally separated" from the time
    the judge grants the divorce to the time the divorce becomes final.
    So, if you're sure it's what you want, go for the divorce and get
    the legal separation all for one price.
    
    Best of Luck!
    

    You don't need a lawyer to represent you in court. You should have
    a lawyer for 'consultation'. The judge will want to be assured that
    both parties have been appraised of their legal rights. One lawyer
    CAN advise both parties of their rights. One lawyer CANNOT represent
    both parties. These are nits, but you will discover that they are
    important nits and steer clear of any lawyer that won't go along
    with the advice scenario.
    
    The "legal separation" that most people refer to, is the requirement
    that the two parties must be physically separated for 30 days before
    the divorce papers can be filed. That means separate domiciles and
    be sure that all meetings during that time are on 'neutral' ground.
    Once the papers are filed, you have to wait for a hearing date to
    be scheduled. At the hearing, the judge wants to know if everything
    has been worked out and both parties agree on all points. The judge
    can grant the divorce at this point or send the whole thing back
    to negotiation or the judge can disagree with the arrangements and
    dictate a settlement (nice huh?).
    
    Once the divorce has been granted, their is a 'waiting period'
    before the decree becomes final. The waiting periods are proscribed,
    but the only one that I know for certain is that for 'no-fault-
    uncontested'. That waiting period is 12 months before it can appear
    on the docket and the final decree be issued.
    
    Bob Mc

    Heaven help me, 9 months was long enough. Why did I say 12 months.

    RE: .3 and .4
    
    I finally got my "no-fault" divorce a couple of months ago.
    
    While there used to be a disparity in the time to "finality", 
    depending upon the grounds, this is no longer the case in Mass.
    
    It is now three months, even in "no-fault" cases.
    
      Alan

    Nine months was what I had to wait 2.5 yrs ago. If they've changed
    it now, I'm happy for anyone thats going through it.
    
    JUST WHY DID THEY HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL MINE WENT THROUGH BEFORE CHANGING
    IT? AARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGH!

    
    Hopefully this will offer a minor clarification to the current "timing"
    of a "no-fault" divorce (mine was granted on 1/26/87).
    
    It is 3 months from the day the judge grants the divorce (with an
    divorce agreement or a court order regarding property settlement,
    physical and legal child custody, support payments [alimony or
    child support or both], etc.).  The time from when you first file
    for "no-fault" to this final decree is what's variable :-(....
    
    If you and your spouse have an agreement you can both sign and is
    a legally binding document, you can initially file it as a "1-A"
    divorce (no-fault, WITH agreement).  If when you initially file,
    such an agreement does not exist (for whatever reason), you have
    to file as "1-B" (no-fault, NO agreement).  The court will then
    have an initial hearing (for "temporary orders - support, child
    custody, etc.).  You will then have until either you reach agreement
    (between yourselves, through mediation, or between you and your
    lawyers), at which time you can change it to a "1-A" divorce, or
    1 year - WHICHEVER COMES LAST!! :-(, before the court will even
    see you again (other than for any additonal "temporary" orders or
    changes in the previous "temporary" orders).  If there is no
    agreement after 1 year, either can then pull it back into court
    and the judge will recommend a settlement and tell both sides to
    try and work out the details for him/her to review, or the judge
    will order the settlement.  So, it can take up to 1.5 yrs. from
    the day you first file for your "no-fault" divorce to be final
    (as it did in my case).  This is part of the reason there are so
    many "fault" divorces filed under "cruel and abusive" in that they
    can be concluded much quicker, but it does involve either/both of
    you "painting the other black"....
    
    					Joe
    

    
    Sorry about this minor error in .7
    
    WHICHEVER COMES LAST *should* *read*  WHICHEVER COMES *FIRST*
    
    I hope that didn't confuse anyone.
    
    				Joe

    re .7
    Well, my hearing was in July of '85, it was considered type 1A
    and became final in May of '86. I'm glad to hear that they have
    reduced the 1A waiting period to 3 months. I thought that the 9
    months was really stupid. Both parties agree to the split and they
    agree on the settlement, but you get tied up in legal limbo for
    nine months. Like you say, I really, seriously asked myself why
    I didn't go the cruelty route.
    
    Bob Mc

    My ex moved out Feb 1.
    Agreement papers drawn up, signed and filed with Court by Feb 15.
    Court date set for March 24.
    On March 24 Judge declared a 30-day trial separation period before
    filing Divorce papers.
    July 24 Divorce Final.
    
    Will probably never be able to understand that 30-day trial separation
    period.  After all we had already been apart for 45 days and hadn't
    changed our (my) mind!
    
    Sure am glad it was only 120 days to wait, though.  Six months,
    nine months, one year would have driven me crazier than he did!!!
    
    jh
    

    To date, after 20 months of separation and haggling, this note has
    the most cogent distillation of some statutes that I've come across.
     Does anyone know of a book which summarizes the statutes and case
    law and details the parties' rights and responsibilities?  I've
    yet to come across such a beast.

    I think the waiting period is really needed. Too many of us rush off to
    court immediately after deciding to divorce.  Sometimes too fast.  Just
    like a death, we all need time to think the process out, to accept what
    is happening, morn a little, etc.  before we make the final decision. 
    
    I am not saying don't divorce.  Seperate but before you rush off to
    court, take the time to really be sure.  All too often I hear "maybe
    our marriage wasn't so bad after all" but the damage has been done and
    in most cases there is no turning back. 
    
    From the time my husband and I split up to the time we ended up in
    court took over 2 years. (Our choice)  Maybe that was a long time but
    we needed that time.  We both agreed to the settlement from the initial
    split, we both knew we couldn't live together anymore but we also are
    still friends to this day because we both had the time to really make
    sure we were doing the right thing before going to court.  Both of us
    have remarried and for each of us it was for the better.  His wife is
    definitely a better fit for him and a real sweetheart and my second
    husband is perfect for me. 
    
    With todays lifestyles, we all "rush" through life and are so quick
    to make hasty decisions.  Everyone needs to slow down a bit...
    

    I disagree that there should be an enforced waiting period. We're
    adults. We're capable of living our lives and making our own mistakes.
    Frankly, the paternalistic notion that the government knows what's best
    for me makes me glad I live in New Hampshire.
    
    	Jon

    My thanks to the thoughtful replys to this topic. Not having any
    divorced friends I'm glad I had the Notes to turn to. 
    
    Regarding "Why the Rush", while that was not directed toward my
    reply I'd like to add my feelings on the subject. Please understand
    that these feelings are hot of the press. 
    
    I'm in no particular hurry to file the papers. I don't feel any
    agonizing doubt about this being the right thing to do or not. The
    decision was reached mutually between two friends. People will say
    well if you're good friends why the separation? Those reasons were
    discussed between us before the obvious conclusion. I've read about others
    bitter battles and I'm so glad I won't have to go through that.
    
    I agree that this loss, like any, is like a death, time is needed
    to recover from such emotional stress. 
    
    I'm thinking of this divorce as a book called "The End". Chapter
    one was the decision to separate, chapter 2 was this weekend when
    he moved out, subtitle it "reality strikes (hard)", chapter 3 will be the
    filing of papers and so on... I hope the book isn't to long and
    I can get on to the "New Begining".   

    sigh...
    Gail

    re: .13
    How does it work in New Hampshire, Jon?
    Mary

    re .15:
    
    Decrees are final 5 days after being signed by a judge (or master).
    
    - M

    You spend entirely too much time waiting for the wheels of justice to
    grind up your paperwork into mulch, but in this case "entirely too much
    time" is a matter of days or weeks, not months. Now while the reason
    for the delays may in fact be to make sure you're actually in your
    right mind, at least they have the common decency not to tell you.
    You're allowed to escape with your dignity intact. 
    
    	Jon

    What's the residency requirement for New Hampshire?
    
    By the way, no one replied to my query on a summary of Mass Law.
    Does it exist, I ask again.

    I really don't know. When I moved here, they accepted checks with my
    address on them as a demonstration of residence at most places. There
    was probably some implicit time -- like thirty days, but I can't
    remember anyone explicitly asking me how long I'd lived there.
    
    	Jon 

    RE: .18
    
    > By the way, no one replied to my query on a summary of Mass Law.
    > Does it exist, I ask again.
    
    Perhaps what you are asking for is not tenable, if you are expecting
    a summary of Massachusetts statutes contained in umpteen law books,
    vis-a-vis, divorce.
    
    Do you have any specific questions in mind?
    
    Short of that, the only summarization I can think of is: "Yes, one
    can obtain a divorce in Massachusetts". :-)
    
      Alan

    Let's try this again!
    
    I had asked a question in the PARENTING notes re: Custodial Parents
    moving out of state.  So, while we're on the subject, does anyone
    *really* know the law (if there is one) regarding such in this state
    (MA).  I had only received about 5 responses or so previously, and
    they seemed a bit sketchy.  What I need to know is "what is the
    Law".  There is nothing written per se in the decree saying I can't.
    But, who knows.....:-{  ??
    
    Thanx!
    
    /c

        RE: 474.21
        
        Asking here is probably not useful--the only reasonable answer
        that you can get is "Go ask a lawyer". Anybody who would be
        willing to give you a definitive answer to a legal question in a
        conference is, by definition, not somebody whose legal opinions
        you should put a lot of trust in.
        
        JimB.

        Please allow me to amplify on my earlier not with my moderator
        hat on. It is not appropriate for non-lawyers (or lawyers, for
        that matter, but hopefully they know that) to dispense legal
        advice in this conference. Notes that appear to be doing so will
        be returned to the authors.
        
        JimB.

I have some experience and information on divorce which may be inappropriate
for HUMAN_RELATIONS.  If you would like to know, send mail...

Jim Baranski 

    I'll also re-request my request :-)
    
    If anyone knows of anyone who was/is a custodial parent and needed
    to move out-of-MA, and had any/no problem in doing so, please send
    me mail.
    
    Howz that?
    /c

    Well it's been almost 6 months since I entered the base note and
    I wanted to conclude for future readers. 
    
    In retrospect the legal process of getting a divorce is about as
    easy as getting an appointment at the dentist. (and takes about
    as long).  I was able to obtain all the necessary papers at the
    probate court. There was a $50 filing fee.
    
    As far as the time frame: I filed in April, received a June court
    date, and the divorce will be finalized in October. There was a
    one month lag between the court date and receiving the divorce notice,
    which tells you that it will be effective in 90 days.

    I would strongly urge people with uncontested divorces not to waste
    their money on a lawyer. If the 2 of you can agree on terms of
    separating your property then your free and clear.

    As "easy" as this all was, I don't ever want to do it again...
    
    Gail