Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    
    So, what are you doing about it?!  I'm sorry if I sound hard-nosed,
    but boy, have I heard this story before!
    
    How does it go?  God Grant Me the Serenity to Accept the Things
    I Cannot Change, Courage to Change the Things I Can, and Wisdon
    to Know the Difference?
    
    Your note sounds like you're trying to tell yourself things you 
    probably already know.  How can you like someone more than you like 
    yourself?  In order to like another, you must first like yourself.  
    If there's something you don't like about yourself, work to change it.
    
    Meanwhile, take things a day at a time.
    
      Beckie
    

    
    	Even without reading any of the base note, I can make a statement
    about life and living, in that you win some and you lose some. This
    is simply an inexorable fact of life, one which *no one* is above.
    You'll find that if you can avoid making yourself upset over the
    "lose some" parts - that we all face - you will find your life
    is now very enjoyable and quite "worth it".
    
    	Joe Jas

Skip - 

I would have to echo what Joe said in .2  And, if I were to look back
through some of my own replies in this file, I've said it here before...
That life tends to have it's balance, and that for all the good things
that happen, there is a commensurate level of "downers."

But it's hard to remember that when one is down and out.  Indeed, very
recently when I was having some problems of my own, a good friend of
mine had to extract out things I had said previously during more happy
times, and stick it back under my nose to remind me of my own attitudes.

You don't have to go it alone.  Sure, every now and then you wind up in
a hole and realize that you have to climb back out.  Indeed, *you* have
to do the climbing, but you'll realize that at points along the way,
those people all around that have crawled their way out of their own
holes will be reaching down to give you a hand.

But back to the original question... Of course it is!  What are the options?
Give up?  If you do, you'll fall right back to the bottom, or you'll be
nowhere at all.  Hardly a decent recourse.  Keep trying?  Sooner or later,
you'll make it.  It doesn't matter if, ultimately, whether you win or lose,
as long as you can say that you gave it your best shot.

Have things always been this bad for you?  Doubtful.
Will things get better for you?  Probable.
Will somebody do it for you?  Doubtful.
Will they help?  Definitely!

BobH  - We're listening.

     
    
      Hi all,
       It's me .... The author of this note .... I simply cannot
     beleve the replys I have recieved since yesterday... This
     morning I set #442 HIDDEN, This afternoon, I set it NOHIDDEN,
     and for a reason ... I can see I'm not alone, and somtime down
     the road what has happened to me might happen to someone else.
     I hope not, but if it does, I want them to be able to use this
     note to better themself, as I am tring. I know that this is harsh
     but I had nowhere left to turn.. Who should I trust ... NOW I know
     that I CAN benefit from what others have to say. I would like thank
     all those who have responded, You all have made me smile, But the
     worst isn't over yet, that I'm sure of.
    
    
                                Thanks to all again,
                                          _Skip
                            It helps !!
    

RE: .1

"God Grant Me the Serenity to Accept the Things I Cannot Change, Courage to
Change the Things I Can, and Wisdon to Know the Difference?"

I beg your pardon, but I have always considered that saying to be one of
top ten trite saying... :-{

Jim.

    re:.5
    
    I agree somewhat, which is why I appreciate the ammended version:
    
    "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
    the courage to change the things that I can, the wisdom to know
    the difference, and the good luck not to f**k things up in the
    meantime."
    
    --- jerry

    RE: .4
    
    Skip, I just tried to read you basenote and it's HIDDEN again.
    
    Do you plan on setting it NOHIDDEN, once more?
    
      Alan
    
    

    RE:  .4
    
    Skip
    
    I, too, just tried to  read your base note - still HIDDEN.  Would
    really be interested in it, if you're still willing to share ...
    
    Mary

    Skip -
    
    From your base note, it seems that there may be more forces at play
    in your life than you realize, and that you may be living with the
    effects of having been brought up in a troubled home.  It sounds
    to me like you're feeling like your life in unmanagable, and also
    like you're feeling as if there may be something wrong with *you*
    - that you can't really depend on yourself, and also as if you're
    very, very fearful of what the future holds.
    
    Boy, can I identify with you.  Without going into detail, I just
    want to say that I know those feelings very well.  I am beginning
    to find some inner peace by attending Al-Anon, an off-shoot of AA.
    AA is for people with drinking problems, Al-Anon is for families,
    friends, etc.  of those people.  Many of us in Al-Anon grew up in
    homes where alcohol made life pretty miserable,  and we ALL thought
    once we were out of the home the problems, pain, etc. would stop.
    
    NOT SO.  For those who don't drink, the emotional problems still
    continue.  For many of us, our anger, fear, etc. rules our lives
    in ways in which we aren't even aware, and we've found  ourselves
    running into problems at work, with our friends, and  other family
    members.  Al-Anon offers a program  to help us deal with the anger
    and pain,  and begin to look  at and live our own lives.  Gradually,
    it does become clear that life is worth living - that there is a
    way out of the mess.  Miracles do happen.
    
    In closing, I'd like to refer you specifically to Note 258 in IOSG::
    CHRISTIAN - replies 35 and 42 are astounding, and, in my  opinion,
    may be very helpful to you in your life.  
    
    These are just a couple of suggestions  from someone who has wondered
    much the same as you have -
    
    In Peace -
    
    Mary

    Skip -
    
    I meant to refer you to reply .36 in Note 258 in IOSG::CHRISTIAN.
    That's the  one which is so very beautiful.  
    
    Sorry for the mix-up.
    
    Mary

    re: 5  Trite????  
    
           For me, this "trite" saying has helped me to accept some
           major things in my life that I could do nothing about
           (noone said I had to "like" them) and change some things
           that needed changing (but it took courage because I "hate"
           change).
    
           I have a long version which makes this "trite" saying very
           profound.
    
           Maybe this will help.
    
           God grant me the serenity (peace of mind) to accept the
           things I cannot change (people, places, things)
           Courage to change the things I can (me)
           And the Wisdom to know the difference.
    
           I would like to share the "long" version with you and
           then see if you still think it is "trite".
    
    

           God grant me the serenity (peace of cake) to accept the
           things I cannot change (bleeding heart liberals, bills)
           Courage to change the things I can (my oil, my underwear)
           And the .44 Magnum to MAKE the difference.
    

						mike

RE: .11

No offense Cheryl, but I still find that trite.  I refuse to believe that there
is anything that I can't change! (:-) I do take it with a grain of salt, though)
There are some things that are not worth the cost of changing, though!

Jim. 

    Jim you refuse to believe that there is anything you can't change?
    
    How about this -- a friend of my just found out she is diabetic.
    She can't change that - ever.  She'll be a dibetic the day she dies.
    
    Now, that doesn't mean that she'll die of diabetes; in fact, she's
    dealing with her own health maintenance quite nicely.  However,
    nothing she does can change the fact the she is (and always will
    be) a diabetic.
    
    The serenity part of that prayer you call trite is accepting things
    like diabetes as an unchangable fact, and then getting on with life.
    
    That's not always easy.
    
    					andrew

    re: .14
    
    At one time my mother was diagnosed as having cancer.  She knew,
    as did most people, that she would have cancer for the rest of her
    life and that she would have cancer the day she dies, she had to
    accept this.
    
    Know what?  She no longer has cancer; her type of cancer has become
    cureable (I do not know the details of any of this).  But I do know
    this: It was NOT cured by my mother, it was cured by someone who
    felt (s)he *could* change things.
    
    No offense, but *IF* diabetes *can* be cured, it will not be done
    by your friend, but may be done by Jim, or someone like him.
    
    My 2cents worth.
    jim
    

RE: .14

No Offense, but I believe that diabetes *is* curable.  First, you have to ask
yourself what it means to be "cured".  Does it mean not having to take insulin
shots?  Does it mean being able to eat any amount of anything?

I believe that the former can be done.  As to the latter, not even 'healthy'
people can do that, or they will not stay healthy very long! 

Diet can often make Diabetes quite transparent, but then again there are people
to whom the next ciggarette is more important then an extra ten years of their
life.

Jim.

    re .16 (Jim)
    
    Some diabetes can be gotten rid of by shedding a few pounds, so
    that you have enough insulin for the (smaller) body.
    
    Some diabetes cannot be gotten rid of that way at any weight.  These
    people will have to take insulin shots for the rest of their lives.
    The sad part here is it is usually children who get the second type
    of diabetes.
    
    Elizabeth
    (Who has *lots* of relatives with diabetes) :^(
    

    re: .18  Not true.
    
    While the symptoms can be treated, the disease cannot be cured TODAY.
    
    Big difference.
    
    jim
    

    WHERE IS NOTE 442.?

    The note is hidden.  At this point, I have no idea why.
    
    				Steve

        I believe that the base not was hidden due to some references to
        potential or pending legal proceedings, which are best not
        discussed in print.
        
        JimB. 

     
    
      Jim,
    
       I am still around ... you hit the nail on the head ..
     but don't get me wrong .. IT's Not all THAT bad...
     I think that setting this note hidden was for the better
     perhaps someday I will change it back ... if I'm still
     around ....
    
                                   _Skip
    

    
    RE .12   I've just gotten back from a West coast trip and
             have been catching up on the files. Ya your right
             Me and Harry loved it. I'am still clearing the tears
             from my eyes, from laughing so hard and much.  
             
                                             Bob B
    
                                  P.S. Was in Frisco ...Harry says Hi
                                                   :^)