Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    To me being lonely is being alone or sole, while lonliness can
    happen around people.

    I agree with Bonnie. But here's something that might be apropos
    here. A quote from George R.R. Martin's story, "The Second Kind
    of Loneliness" (from A SONG FOR LYA AND OTHER STORIES, p. 33):
    
    	"And then there is the second kind of loneliness...
    
    	"It's the loneliness of people trapped within themselves.
    	The loneliness of people who have said the wrong thing so
    	often that they don't have the courage to say anything
    	anymore. The loneliness, not of distance, but of fear.
    
    	"The loneliness of people who sit alone in furnished
    	rooms in crowded cities, because they've got nowhere to
    	go and no one to talk to. The loneliness of guys who go
    	to bars to meet someone, only to discover they don't
    	know how to strike up a conversation, and wouldn't have
    	the courage to do so if they did.
    
    	"There's no grandeur to that kind of loneliness. No
    	purpose and no poetry. It's loneliness without meaning.
    	It's sad and squalid and pathetic, and it stinks of self-
    	pity.
    
    	"Oh yes, it hurts at times to be alone among the stars.
    
    	"But it hurts a lot more to be alone at a party. A lot
    	more."
    
    --- jerry

    RE: .2
    
    > But it hurts a lot more to be alone at a party. A lot more."
    
    Hit the nail on the head with that statement.  BUT.. if you manage
    to strike up a conversation with someone, (which might happen twice
    a year in a bar if you're lucky), and have a good time with that
    person and enjoy their companionship, your feelings of being lonely 
    suddenly vanish, at least temporarily.  Sometimes it makes it seem
    all worthwhile.  I must stress the word "seems".
    
    I also feel that "lonely" means being alone; not having someone
    there to share your feelings with when you need them the most.
    While "loneliness" means feeling an emptiness inside you, that you
    have a burning desire to fulfill.
    
    -Darrell-
    

       Lonely is being in the house alone, doing the same old chores,
    thinking the same old thoughts. It's playing the same records and
    tapes, it's watching the same TV shows. It's being in a haze...
    sulking, brooding, analyzing problems the same old way. Dreaming,
    scheming, but usually a lazed out couch potato.
      Loneliness happens anywhere. The feeling of being contained within
    one's own thoughts, not reaching out or being reached out to.
      Loneliness is even making out the perfunctory time card (on time,
    wk in/out), and having that action take priority over a long overdue
    call, letter, or visit to someone... someone often very dear.
      Loneliness is knowing the difference between reality and what
    should be. It's a lonely feeling.
                                                
                                                       Russ

    When I'm by myself, I can feel lonely.  When I'm in a room full
    of people, I can feel lonely.  But loneliness strikes me most when
    I lose touch with myself - my thoughts, my feeling, my wants and
    needs.
    
    Feeling lonely and having loneliness can overlap at times, and I
    feel that the fine line that separates them is myself - especially
    the way that I feel about myself.
    
    I can be physically alone and still not feel lonely.
    
    Feelings - from and about myself.  From the top of my head, that's
    what lonely and loneliness are to me.
    
    Carol
    

    To me alone and loneliness are not the same at all.  Alone is the
    physical state of being only with myself.  Lonely is when I need
    emotional contact - either with myself or someone else.  I think
    Carol said it best in .5
    
    Marty

    re: .0
    
    Standing alone in the deep forest, and surveying the great trees
    or the passing clouds; I do not feel alone; but rather a part of
    this great Be_ing.
    
    In the subway train, crammed packed with commuters, I feel a sense
    of solitude; aloness, loneliness as I wonder the question: Do any
    of these person care anythng about who is next to them; is that
    why they press, and cram, and shove .. because they do not care?

    Bob+3_more_hikers_;^)

    RE: -1 Marty
    
    That's the same distinction I would have made - lonely vs. alone.
    
    The base note said lonely vs. loneliness but they are just different
    forms of the same word like happy vs. happiness.  One describes
    the state from the subjective, ("I am lonely"), and the other from the 
    objective, ("this is loneliness"), but both describe the same thing.
    
    Being alone or not is a transient event in the physical world 
    whereas being lonely or not is the result of one's perceptions of that 
    physical world.  Some may well say "There is no one here - therefore
    I am lonely", but we all know the two don't go hand in hand because
    there ARE people who say, "There's no one here - hallelujah!"
    
    Aloneness is an external event but loneliness is an internal
    perception and/or interpretation of external events.

    Re: -8
    
    I maintain that loneliness may also be a preception of internal
    events.  In fact, this may the be the predominate factor.  If I
    am happy with myself, I'm not lonely when alone.  Other times, I
    can be very lonely even when in the company of many.
    
    Cheers, Marty

    Hi Marty - um, we're into semantics, I think, but I know what you're
    trying to say.  What we choose to be, lonely or happy, is the result
    NOT of external events but of how we perceive and interpret those
    external events.  Were that not the case, we'd be helpless emotional
    basket-cases buffeted about by every innocuous daily event.  But we're
    not.  We take those events and interpret them into how important
    they are for us.  This step is where we determine our level of
    happiness or loneliness, (optimism or pessimism, cynicism or naivetee,
    etc).

    Re .10
    
    Yea - that's what I was trying to say.
    
    Cheers, Marty

    Lonely is not having someone to be with, talk to or reach out to
    at that piticular moment.  Missing someone you care about.
    
    Loneliness is more of never having someone to talk to, being aloe
    at a party is a good analogy, not having the courage to talk to
    someone, lacking in self confidence. Being left alone, like some
    shut ins....
    
                            Debbi
    
    

    
    
       "We are all so much together, yet we are dying of loneliness."
      
                                                   - Albert Schweitzer
    
       "Why do I come back? Because without you my existance is meaningless
    and life has no purpose.  For the things I am, I am lonely and you
    are the one that fills my life."
    
                                        Phillip - "Of Human Bondage"
                                                       - Somerset Maughm
    

"They're sharing a drink called lonliness, but it's better then being alone."

Billy Joel

Jim.

    I find myself alone most of my non-work time but I seldom feel lonly
    even though I would prefer to be around people. I have felt lonly
    in a crowd several times but that often is my fault because I havent
    involved myself in the conversation,ect.
    I feel most lonly when I think of spending the rest of my life alone
    (no SO) then it becomes more than just the current situation.
    
    -j