Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Good topic.
    
    Maybe I'm just old-fashioned but it bugs me when salesmen call me
    by my first name.  I've also never called my Dr. by his first name
    even though he calls me by mine.  I'll have to try it and see his
    reaction.  I also don't like it when small children of friends use
    my first name.  That's about it.
    
    Susan

Yes.. I think a title is important.. and I think it is important to the
person who possesses said title because it represents the work, time, effort
etc that went into achieving a goal or ambition.

If I were a doctor I would like very much to be called Doctor Blank, it 
would be like saying.. "recognise that which I achieved".

Maybe it is being a bit of a ``Poser'' but that is how I would feel.  I worked
hard not to be "just a secretary".. and now when people address me as such
I tell them my `title'... it is not to be a dink, it is just to let them 
know.. "hey I did this.. I got out of a nitch, I worked for something and
achieved it"!  I never minded being a secretary... I did not even mind being
`just a secretary' most of the time, but now I am a tich more and I like 
telling people..     [ when I can get them to listen! ;-) ]

Yup... I say Yes...  if a title is what makes a person happy... then use
it!  We should all be happy little doo b's!

Sr. Co-ordinator 1st Class GA   8^}

    I could do without titles.  I take it in stride if someone wants
    their title used (Doctor, Mr. Ms. etc.), but I prefer just to be
    Jacki.  I hate it when friends insist that their children call
    me Mrs. Muise.  It's harder to say, and I never really think of
    myself as Mrs. Muise.  I've been Jacki a lot longer.
    
    

          "Dr. Jones?"  Sure, for an MD in practice, or for a PhD or ScD in
     academia.  If an earned title is relevant to the circumstances, by all
     means the holder can insist that it be used.  For a PhD or ScD in the
     business world, though, it reeks of posing -- at least in the USA's
     "egalitarian" society.

          Courtesy titles in general are absurd.  For a coworker to demand
     a courtesy title ("Miss," "Mr.," "Mrs.," or "Ms.") is ridiculous,
     especially in Digital's "first name" culture.

                                  Brian Hetrick

    Brian, those were my exact sentiments which is great, since
    then I don't have to type it in myself!   ;-}

    When addressing others, I tend to usually call them by their first
    names, if I'm not in a patently "parent/child" position, e.g, as
    a student I would address my teachers as Mr., Mrs., Miss (Ms. was
    not in vogue back then), Professsor, etc. 
    
    With M.D.'s, my pattern is that I call my G.P. "Dr. White". Yet
    with my shrink who is an M.D., I call him by his first name, although
    when I first started seeing him, I agonized for weeks whether to
    do this. One night, I brought this up to him. He said to call him
    "whatever felt comfortable to me" (typical shrink talk). So I shed
    all inhibitions, and started to call him "Larry".
    
    I tend to address PhD's by their first names. When my, God willing,
    soon-to-be-ex-wife and I were in Couples counseling, I immediately
    called our therapist "Jim" without asking what HE wanted.
    
    I prefer to be called by my first name, even when being addressed
    by young children. And I've always told my kids' friends to call
    me Alan.
    
    RE: .0 
    
    Michael, did you have anybody special in mind when you used the
    *hypothetical* example of a "Mr. Sapphire"?
    
      Alan 

    All similarities are purely hypothetical.

    Of course.

    I feel that certain people should be called by their proper titles,
    but when you're familiar enough with someone, you can either ask
    them if they'll let you address them more informally, or they'll
    ask you themselves to do so.
    
    I can't bear it, but I have this nit to pick.  The word is 
    GRANDIOSE (grand-ee-ose)...not grandoise
    
    -Jody
    

    
    When I was growing up in school, the "big cheese" at the school
    was called a "principal."  When I had to see this person at my 
    son's school, I asked about the principal upon arriving.  I was
    quickly corrected, more than once.  The lady in charge, as well
    as the ladies that work in the office, informed me that "she"
    wasn't a principal, but that she was, "Dr. Jackson."
    
    I wouldn't have thought anythng about it, but after they reprimanded
    me about it, I always referred to her as, "Mrs. Jackson."
                                                                        
    -Dwight
    
    
    "I never liked having demands put to me."

       re .6:
       
       I assumed that the non-oblique reference to "Mr. Saphire" was to
       William Safire, the columnist.  
       
       I figured that if Professor Mahler had meant to make reference to
       the gem, sapphire, then he would have spelled it correctly. 
       
       --Mr Topaz

    It's Composer Mahler to you, Don.

    	why's that? 
    
    	HE'S dead!!!!!

    RE:.8 That SHOULD read:

    "I can't bear it, SO I have this nit to pick."  Fortunately I don't
    correct peoples grammar, or spelling, often so I don't look like
    a completely pompous putz.

    RE:.10  You ASSumed wrongly.  No where did I say I was referring
	    to a gem of any kind, just a proper name that I created,
	    hence my disclaimer in .7.

    RE:.12  I am?
	

    
    	I think if anyone called me by my title at work I would be most
    embarrassed (and tired).
    
    	It's just a small point but I do not like my daughter calling
    adults by their first name - I always find it uncomfortable as I
    think it lacks respect. For good friends I always try and persaude
    her to prefix it with Auntie or Uncle.
    
    Steve
    
    ps.... For those who wonder about work....
    
    	    Acting Area Applications Development Group Customer
    	    Adminstrative Systems Support and Implementation Unit Manager
    
            .... so there !!!!!
    

    I do not like it when I am addressed by a title + last name simply
    because they always get it wrong: I am NOT a PhD, I am NOT a man,
    that is NOT how one pronounces Tatistcheff so please don't try because
    I get a little sick of giving lessons.
    
    Get a bit fed up, now and then.
    
    I always call a professor by title + last name unless asked to do
    otherwise.
    
    Anyone else wishing to be addressed by their title will have to
    use mine, then they see my last name and seldom press the issue.
    
    BTW: how do you answer the phone at work??  "Lastname here", "hello",
    what?  I say "this is Lee" simply because saying Tatistcheff is
    too much effort.  Then they would like to be connected with Mr or
    Dr Tatistcheff and we go into the round-about of explaining that
    Mr Tatistcheff Does not work for DEC, but Ms Tatistcheff does and
    you are speaking to her......
    
    Lee

    Well, lessee. Miss Manners says that one never uses a title when
    referring to oneself - that is, you introduce yourself as "Jane
    Doe," not "Ms. Jane Doe." However, I think this applies mainly to
    (a) social situations, and (b) social titles. If you're a medical
    doctor, you could certainly introduce yourself to a patient as "Doctor
    Doe" - but you shouldn't go around addressing the patients
    by their first names unless you add, "...and you can call me Jane."
    
    Re .15: Lee, I sympathize. I answer my office phone with "Beth Ravan"
    (the name's pronounced "ruh-VAN"), and *invariably* the response is a
    pause, followed by "Is Elizabeth Raven (RAY-vun) there?" When I say,
    "Speaking," they get a bit flustered. Is it really such a stretch of
    the imagination? 
    
    Titles, of course, would not help my situation at all.
    
    My biggest beef with titles is that people get *so angry* with other
    people who are just trying to do the "right" thing. "I hate it when
    kids call me 'Mr.'" vs. "I hate it when kids call me by my first name."
    "How dare you call me Mrs. Smith - I'm not his property!" or "How
    dare you call me Ms. Doe; I'm *proud* to take the name Smith!"

    If everybody could allow themselves to be corrected without
    getting upset, and would try to remember how others preferred to be
    addressed, this wouldn't be so much of a problem. (Except that I
    usually can't remember people's *names*, much less their titles...)

    -b

    
    Jeez, it's sort of a mixed bag with me.  Medical doctors get called
    doctor.  The only other people I ever referred to as Doctor were
    certain college professors I though were worthy of the title, despite
    what their degrees said.
    
    If I'm calling someone on the phone, and they don't identify themselves
    on answering, I tend to use whatever name I have for them.  The
    risk here, of course, is calling someone with a last name like Lee
    T's, fracturing it beyond all hope of intelligibility, and embarassing
    myself.  Oh, well.  It's easier than goofing around with a title.
    
    If I use a title with someone I know really well, it is usually
    an indicator that I am A) Succembing to some ill-advised urge to
    be sarcastic or B) I'm really annoyed with them.
    
    Titles tend to get in the way.
    
    DFW

    I also WANT my kids to call an adult by Mr., Mrs., Miss until they
    are told by that adult to do otherwise. That is one way I can teach
    them about respect...
    
    Now as to asking the phone at work... I always say "Distribution"....
    when I was in MIS, I said "M I S"... 
    
    GLK

    
    
    	When the phone is ringing off the hook then I tend to 
    	answer it with "Joe Nemo's.. Foot Long Hot Dogs" or
    	"Hysteria Central"  That tends to get things in the 
    	right perspective.. (ie: Everyone laughing and forgetting the 
    	silly question they called me for to begin with.. :-) :-))
    
    	My Dad was Mr. Foley to my friends. My Mom DAMNED well better
    	be addressed as Mrs. Foley by her childrens friends. Myself,	
    	I like being called "Mike" by people and if they insist on
    	some level of formality then it's "Mr. Mike".  I suppose
    	when I get older I'll become a clone of my parents and
    	insist on "Mr. Foley" to children but to everyone else it
    	should be "Mike" or "Michael" or "Hey Foley!".
    
    	Rumour has it that Mr. Topaz has on his Business Card "Mr. Topaz".
    
    							mike

    When I was living in South Carolina, the thing to say was:
    If a male: Mr. Whatever
    A friends Mom: Miss Whatever-her-firstname-is. ie. Miss Pat, Miss
    Sue, etc.
    An unknown woman was: Mrs. Whatever
    
    I taught kids at a Y for several years and ALL the teachers I worked
    with had thier students call them by thier first name, no matter
    how old the teacher or the student was.  I feel it gave the student
    a chance to relax.  Who would you do better for, Mr. Andrews you're
    teacher or Rob, your friend who was showing you how to do something?
    
    A different subject.
    My SO's father is a dentist, so to everyone else (But me) he is
    Dr. Sayre. I call him Mr. Sayre.  Just because he spent all that
    money and time to become a dentist does NOT automatically make him
    a better person to me.  I would prefer to treat my doctor as a social
    equal.  He just has a different set of skill than I do. Big Deal,
    that's no reason to treat him differently.
    
    When I was at school, all my teachers prefered to be called by thier
    first names, doctor or not.  I figure the same rule applies as in
    paragraph 2.

    Well before I decided not to continue my education any further,
    I once thought it might be kind of neat to be introduced as
    Mr. and Dr. xxxxxxxxxxx. In general I address people older than
    me by what ever title they are comfortable with, and if professionals
    call me by my first name I call them by theirs...
    
    This past weekend I was introduced to all my son's hall mates
    at his college parents weekend...my husband and I said they could
    call us what they pleased...and they generally avoided calling us
    anything directly. :-)
    
    In a way it is a matter of your perspective.
    
    Bonnie

    Many, many moons ago, the father of an ex-SO went over to a new
    neighbor to introduce himself. To his "Hi, I'm Joe Nangle," he
    got a "Hi, I'm Mr. Anderson." Though he remained cordial, he
    walked away thinking that not only was the man stuck up, but that
    he was rude to boot. I would agree.
    
    A fellow third shifter from a few years back told me how he dealt
    with getting phone calls during the day when he was, in theory,
    asleep. When he answered the phone, if the other person said,
    "Hello, Joe?" he'd talk to him. If the other person said, "Hello,
    Mr. Healy?" he'd hang up. He figured that anyone that didn't know
    him well enough to call him "Joe" wasn't someone he wanted to
    talk to.
    
    When dealing with people on a professional basis, I use their
    titles, so my doctors I call "Doctor". I also use the honorific
    "Mr./Ms." (these are *not "titles") if I don't know the person,
    and a title isn't applicable. My elders, such as the parents of
    a friend or SO, I refer to with an honorific unless I know them
    well or they specifically ask to be called by their first name.
    My peers, regardless of age, I will call by their first names.
    
    For myself, I hate being called "Mr. Boyajian" (only partly
    because the name gets mangled in the pronunciation). I think of
    myself as "Jerry" and prefer others to call me that. As the old
    line goes, "Mr. Boyajian is my father; I'm Jerry." I don't mind
    when it's the Doctor's secretary calling to confirm an appointment,
    or a stranger calling about something, but I'm still uncomfortable
    with being referred to as "Mr."
    
    Personally, I was always croggled by people who referred to their
    own parents, let alone other people's parents, by first names.
    
    By the way, if the principal/Dr. Jackson situation ever happened
    to me, my response to those who corrected me would likely be,
    "With all due respect, she can call herself Bozo the Clown for
    all I care. Whatever her name and professional title is, her job
    title is still Principal, and I came to see the Principal."
    
    --- jerry

RE: 16

    If everybody could allow themselves to be corrected without
    getting upset, and would try to remember how others preferred to be
    addressed, this wouldn't be so much of a problem. (Except that I
    usually can't remember people's *names*, much less their titles...)

    
I think that the first sentence in the above statement is very important.
In my opinion people should listen to how someone wants to be addressed 
and accept it, instead of dwelling on whether that person is being a snob 
or picky.  When a person tells me he's "Mr. Smith" or Robert, that's
how I address them.  I answer my phone and introduce myself as Susan for
one reason only.  I like my name and don't particularly care for Sue.
I've had people tell me that I should accept the fact they shorten people's
names.  Those are the people I don't answer when they call me Sue.
    
Susan

    re: .0
    
    Actaully, i had the reverse situation happen, where a MR. nobody
    insisisted on being called by his first name (because it was
    'friendlier', and all the latest managerial books were saying the
    'workplace should be a friendly place'). SO I always called him
    MISTER nobody, because it served my purpose very well (as I disliked
    him IMMENSELY), had virtually NO RESPECT for him, and would have
    preferred that he left the company.
    
    
    I imply my respect or otherwise to a person , not by thier title,
    but by HOW i address them. Sorrry, but i can't give any examples
    here, because the inflection gets lost.
    
    Bob+3

    You can calls me Brown. You can calls me Tom. You can calls me Dr.
    Jackson......Just don't calls me Mr. Johnson....A persons priviledge
    I think...
             
    Let me earn your respect!

    I used to work in a group which had several Ph. D.'s (no, not me!
    I'm not that much of a scholar) in various disciplines in it, and
    it was very much of a first-name sort of a place - except for one
    fellow who was extra-proud of himself and wanted to be called "Dr.
    <whatsisname>".  Very few people ever remembered to call him that
    anyhow, since he was doing the same work as the rest of us were,
    doctorate or not (if he had been a manager over us or something
    we might have felt more natural about referring to him differently
    than to his peers).  He backed down when he found out that half
    of his coworkers also had doctorates and that it didn't matter to
    anyone else!

    All of my son's friends (ages 16 through 21) call me "Mom" except
    for their girlfriends who sometimes call me Mary.  I'm not at all
    sure how this came about but thats the way it is and I love them
    all.
    Mary

    I know what you mean about shortening names.  I prefer to go either
    by Elizabeth (which I do at work), or Betty (with close friends).
    I don't like Liz, or Lizzy, but Liz is what I frequently get called
    by people who barely know me.  I can call someone over the phone,
    introduce myself as Elizabeth Younger, and they say "Ok Liz,..."
    If they are trying to sell me something, they just lost the sale.
    
    I am a bit uncomfortable being called Miss or Ms Younger, and even
    more uncomfortable with Mrs Younger.  I'd prefer friends children
    just call me Elizabeth or Betty.
    
    Elizabeth
    (not Liz)
    

    i still call my parents friends  mr or mrs
    i feel really uncomfortable using their first names.
    
    				kelly

        "Touchy", maybe, but I think that she's absolutely right. Any
        number of salesmen Have lost their sale right off the bat by
        calling me "Jimmy", "Jimbo", or even "Jim" in the wrong tone or
        without invitation. There's this notion going around that a
        person's name is the most beautiful sound they can hear so you
        should use it, or some such. When it is applied by salesmen and
        total strangers I feel the use of my name is often misuse. 
        
        When a salesman calls me "Jim" without asking he's saying "We're
        really just friends--this isn't formal businesss", and that is
        just palin false. We're not friends. It is very much business,
        and I'll thank him to keep it formal. When he calls me by an
        unwanted and childish diminutive that I don't use, he's not
        merely saying we're friends, he is treating me in an insulting
        manner by suggesting that I'm a child or his inferior.
        
        If Ms. Younger wanted to be called Liz, she'd so introduce
        herself. If she says she's Elizabeth Younger, then that's who
        she is. No-one else, especially a sales person has the right to
        try to define her to suit their needs. 
        
        JimB. 

    I have the same cold reaction when people I don't know who are trying
    to sell me something extrapolate from my real first name "Judith" that
    I should be called "Judy" (which I personally hate, particularly
    because it's been used in this context for so long).  Judith is fine,
    and if they're product piques my interest, I may ask them to call me
    "Jody". After all, my parents came up with "Jody" and then had to find
    a real name to go on the books - Josephine was too fancy, but Judith
    did just fine. 

    -Jody
    

    Mike, if a stranger put his arm around you and started calling you
    Mikie, would you feel like you wanted to buy from him/her?
    
    I think it is the assumption of the appearances of friendship
    when none is there. Having someone act in the intimate fashion
    that one expects of close friends as a means to sell cars or something
    else would turn me off also. I'd far rather just learn about the
    characteristics of what is being sold. The "best friends" routine
    would also make me wonder if the salesman is trying to pull a scam
    on me.
    
    Bonnie

    Remember, I am doing the *salesman* a favor by buying his product
    from him.  He is not doing me a favor in selling it.  If I really
    want the product, I can probably find someone else to sell it to
    me - and let have the commission.  If the person insults me, I feel
    no obligation to give them my buisiness.
    
    This is particularly aggrivating with unsolicited sales pitches
    - for example, a telephone solicitor.
    
    Elizabeth
    

    
    re: 0
    i suppose you can guess what's coming.....
    
    I
    do not believe in.....
    
    TITLES!
    in the context of .0
    
    there is charles and di
    there is ron and nancy
    there is caspar
    and micheal
    
    everything is too pretentious...
    and seems to dictate that we act wierd....bow, scrape, grovel...stuff
    like that
    	"yes your most holy wisdomness!"
    	"thank you your potificated wonderfullness!"
    	beat me, lord, beat me!"
    
    and it only fuels their already overinflated egos!
    
    and in most cases they are just people who knew how to get power...
    but not how to use it wisely for the benefit of the many as opposed
    to the comfort of the few.