Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Hi Steve. Having been in your shoes, I know where your at, and in
    my opinion, you have your head on pretty straight.
    
    One of the most important things you said was that this chapter
    in your life is closed. It really is. It doesn't mean you won't
    have future contact with your ex wife, but it will be on totally
    different ground.
    
    It's time to move on, start again, and maybe put "yourself" first
    for a change. You did everything you could, so you have no regrets.
    Be good to YOU now.
    
    
    Good Luck,
    
    Steve

    re .0
    
    Can't help you out on this one. The day my divorce became final,
    my SO and I were busy running around and getting a waiver on the
    waiting period for a marriage license (and getting the license),
    so the wedding could happen as planned the next day. 8-)
    
    Bob Mc
    

    Your note touched me deeply.  Having lived thru the
    same experience, the same emotions, the same doubts
    and fears and hopes...I can say that you have put
    MY thoughts into words.  Thank you, Steve.  
    
    I've followed the chronicle of the end of your marriage,
    and it has helped me to deal with MY situation many times.
    
    I too once planned to 'paint the town red' when my divorce
    became final.  As it turned out, when the final orders finally
    became official, it was rather anti-climactic.  That chapter
    in my life was over.  And I'd already started that 'new book'
    you referred to....
    
    Please continue noting, Steve!  And be joyful.  You have touched
    so many, without even realizing it.
    
                          Deb
    
    

    re .3:
    
    Had'em waiting in the wings, eh?
    
    Gees, at least I waited a month.  
    
    :-)
    
    - M

    Why DOES this particular discussion touch so many nerves
    with me??
    
    Ah, Laurie, me too....10 year marriage, ended 2 years ago.
    
    And I decided to do all the things I didn't do while I was
    a wife, including hot air ballooning, white water rafting,
    skiing...you name it, I tried it. Guess I figured if I could
    survive divorce I could survive ANYTHING!
    
    You still have a past.   It just is no longer applicable....did
    you suddenly feel that you had lost everything that you could
    relate to, that made life "normal" and routine?  That suddenly
    you were out in a brand new world but didn't have anything
    "familiar" to fall back on?  A new personality is required to
    adjust to the new set of rules, the new set of circumstances!
    Whew!  
    
    Reading NOTES sure helped me thru some difficult times...glad
    I had you all to share with when life was almost overwhelming.
    
    

    Odd...
    
    We congratulate people when they get married, AND when they get
    divorced!
    
    

    I congratulate them on their strength in getting through it with
    their sanity. Having been there I know for a fact it has to be the
    worst feeling short of coming home to find your family has moved
    with no forwarding address. 
    
    -j
    

    re: .10
    
    I agree.... but your statement made me laugh because that same
    situation inadvertantly happened to me once. When I lived with my
    parents (about 300 years ago :-)) they moved house and I had been
    working away, I forgot to pick up the new address but I knew the
    rough area and spent about two hours in the pouring rain, circling
    the area on my motorbike to try and spot the house. We all had a
    good laugh about it but I've wondered sometimes if they were
    trying to tell me something :-)

    On a more serious note (excuse the pun), I am seem to have stirred
    up some feelings for some people better left behind which I did
    not intend to do and if it has caused any pain - I'm sorry.
    
    I've developed a new phase now - I'm replacing the stuff I brought
    from my former matrimonial home piece by piece. My ex got custody
    of most of the things in the settlement but I managed to salvage
    some things. I'm now having great fun giving (or throwing) them
    all away and replacing them - what a crazy world :-). I fought so
    hard to keep them (well.... it was the principle of the thing !)
    and now I don't like having them around.
    
    Steve
    
    ps... anybody wanna buy a Hitachi Stereo system..?? :-)

    re: .9
    
    Also when they start school and they graduate. i guess we tend to
    want to say someting when people pass through one of lifes milestones
    with their sanity intact , thier sense of humour in place, and a
    deep feeiling for those who helped them.
    
    re: .0
    
    Congratulations. I hope this "milestone" doesn't become a "millstone"
    in your life. Keep growing, sounds like you've got a great head
    start. I ended my third single year on Sept 3rd ... not because
    bing single is bad, but because "things seemed right" for us.
    
    Bob et trois
    

    
    re: 9
    	i have no idea why we congratulate people when the get married.
    	we should be suggesting counseling...
    	"are you sure you know what you are doing?"
    
    	but i guess i can understand congrats' when a bad relationship
    is over...
    	
    	steve, you want a happier ending?
    	i give you one: along with all the heretofore mentioned good
    stuff (free to do as you please, keep groing, find other relationships
    that will make (wrong word) you happy) remember this:
    	noone knopws how long any relationship is going to last.
    	expecting it to last forever and then watching it crumble is
    where most of the pain/anguish comes in.
    	next person that you meet that you fall in love with (male
    or female or sheep) don't promise or ask him/her to promise...
    	love forever....
    	just take each day/week/month...(i usually only foresee up
    to 6 months...sure, we'll be together at christmas...just don't
    ask me about july 4) as they come...
    	enjoy them...
    	give love, accept love...
    	and don't get hung up again on unrealistic goals that cause
    so many people neurotic and unneccessarryy pain....
    
    	i've had 3 wonderful loving relationships in my life.
    	no anger, no pain (well, for me anyway...i think one of them
    was pretty upset when it ended cuz she believed in the fairy tale
    that there is only one love of ones' life)
    	i'm in the third right now (even though some of you don't
    care if she still loves me...:-) and we're having a real good
    time.
    	we promise only to be honest with each other.
    	we ask for committments of up to 6 months and that's it!!!!
    	(will you go to my mothers on thanksgiving?...yeah, sure...)
    	and we brainwash/condition our children to grow the same way
    hoping that in 20 years they won't be *noting* on these same topics!
    hoping that they will grow up with the distinct advantage of REALITY!
    
    	so don't fall into the same trap in 3 or 5 or 10 years....
    	and you'll have happier endings.
    
    

    All of us who have been there know of the pain and lonelinness, the
    breaking of the continuity in our lives, the anger, mourning, and the 
    myriad of other feelings that are a part of the sundering of a marriage. 
    
    How can people ever believe that divorce is "the easy way out"?
    
    That we have gone through a divorce, and have lived to tell about
    it, is testimony of our ability to survive. That we have gone through
    a divorce, and are willing to take the risk of loving again, is 
    testimony of our humanity.
    
      Alan  
    

    Re .15, oh will you cut it out :-).  You're so depressing!!
    

    re .11
    Steve, you looking to unload a washer and dryer?  I'm pretty sick
    of laundromats...
    
    Lee

    re: .17
    
    	I'm afraid the washing machine is mine.... ALL MINE !!!
    
    	I only bought it 6 weeks ago and it has pride of place - it's
    more interesting than British TV anyway (what isnt ???).
    
    	If I need to replace it, I'll give you first refusal as long
    as you will pay the postage from Reading, England !
    
    Steve

    It appears we are congratulating failure.  If exiting in a relationship
    is a demonstration of our humanity, then we should be become extremely
    humane.  But we are becoming extremely intolerant.  
    
    Or does it become a little numb when it happens more than once?

RE: .20

"It appears we are congratulating failure."

I would hate to have to think of it that way...  Judging from the notes given
here, it seems that we are congratulating *not* failing in the *divorce*, rather
then the failure of the marriage.  We are congratulating making it through the
process of divorce with (hopefully) a sound mind and body.  It seems that we
give the benefit of the doubt that the failure of the marriage was unavoidable. 

Jim.

    .21
    
    Then we should be wishing people good luck rather than congratulations
    when getting married.  I still think it incongruous to give
    congratulations to a couple one year for getting married, and then 
    congratulate the individual the next for surviving the divorce.  
                               
    Let alone the congratulations of being single again!  Some people
    (not all) consider being alone an even worse fate.  

    re .6
    
    Well -M.
    Considering that the process took over a year (no-fault uncontested
    is the longest waiting period in Mass.) and I had spent 7 months
    agonizing over the decision to begin with.
    
    And we were'nt sure how long the baby would wait 8-) 8-).
    
    I've been known to make quick decisions before 8-).
    
    Bob Mc
    

    re .22:
    
    According to Miss Manners, one doesn't congratulate the bride, one
    wishes her the best of luck, as congratulations imply that she "caught"
    her new husband. Presumably, it's all right to imply that the groom 
    caught the bride.
    
    Myself, I try not to focus on the words someone used, but rather what
    they said. If someone gives a peculiar congratulations, they are
    probably just saying something warm, friendly, and encouraging. The
    word "congratulations" is simply what popped out. Why read meaning into
    the particular phrasing of a well-wisher? 
    
    	Jon

    
    divorce only + pain, lonliness, anger, mourning because we have
    been conditioned to react that way...
    if we start now....by telling our children sensible truths like...
    
    1. no one can promise forever!
    2. accept love where/when you find it and if it ends...move on...
    3. don't be angry at your ex-lovers because they no longer love
    you.
   
    	then, in 15-25 years when they are going through reality...
    reality = relationships of different varying lengths
    they won't be as neurotic as we have been....
    
    	perhaps we are being irresponsible by allowing/assisting in
    conditioning our children with false/unrealistic and unreasonable
    beliefs that only handicap them when they are older and experience
    life.  (as opposed to fairy tales)

    	===================================================
    sorry, but divorce does NOT equal a failed marriage!
    i don't believe in the concept of (anything that most of you believe
    firmly and unquestioningly in) :-) the concept of
    
    	FAILED MARRIAGES
    
    there are NO failed marriages.
	(except those between people who should divorce but refuse to)
        
    there ARE relationships.
    and they last varying amounts of time.
    how long doesn't matter.
    as long as they are good ....they tend to last...
    but, either through normal growth changes in either/both parties
    or through other events most relationships come to an end.
    no failure.
    just over.
    finis'

    q:	if 1 person has a relationship till she/he dies
    and another person has 3 different relationships in his/her life
    	and a third person had 2 relationships but dies happily
    single......who wins?
    
    a: all 3 if they were all 3 happy upon death
    
    	divorce (seeing as how it's still necessary because you people
    keep insisting that people must get married) is a growing experience.
    or, it can be...
    	and i like to congratulate people for growing
    	as opposed to remaining mindlessly obstinate and unresponsibly
    stagnant.
    	
    lastly, in keeping wit hthe total lack of respect that i maintain
    for my *betters*....i don't really care what miss manners has to
    say...
    	i'll decide for myself who to congratulate.
    

    re 412.25
    
    nice note.

    re: .25, .26
    
    Well, it seems to me that relationships are what people make them
    out to be.......  Whether they can be of the sort that lasts
    indefinitely or not is again an issue that is determined by the
    couple themselves .....
    
    There is a book [ Can anyone say forever ? by John Haughey, S.J
    ] that treats the idea of commitment from several vantage points.
    
    Haughey tries to locate commitment in the more general area of needs
    and abilities of people to satisfy needs.
    
    
    In my personal, and I realize it is only one situation [ I do
    not attempt to generalize ], situation I like to think I made
    and continue to affirm a commitment to the woman I love .
    
    This commitment I originally made in 1961; and, formally, ritualized
    in marriage in 1963.  We realize the fragility of life and the
    uncertainity of the future.  But, our particular dream and goal
    is that we will continue to affirm and reaffirm our commitment
    to each other over and over .....  forever as it were...
    
    Not everyone can or should or will or might ....  do the same ...
    
    BUT..... some may ... some will ........forever can be
    
    
                     Just my own deep feeling that Pat and I are  for
    each other forever.........
    
    
    

    re: .27
    
    	Then you should count yourself very, very fortunate and may
    you go on for ever.
    
    Steve

    	Having never been married I am not aware of the feelings
    	that emerge from a divorce.  I won't congratulate someone
    	for getting a divorce, but neither will I condemn them (as
    	I once used to).  I used to have an idealized view that if
    	if you made a commitment (ANY commitment, even one as
    	casual as "meet you at 5:00") you were a failure if you
    	didn't follow that commitment through.  I'm not so closed-
    	minded about marriage and relationship commitments anymore, 
    	but I do still expect the follow-through on the less intense 
    	commitments.
    
        We are all constantly changing (hopefully!) in our attitudes,
    	beliefs, and in what we strive for in life.  If you've
    	learned and grown all you can with a person, it is time to
    	move on in order to continue your growth.

    					Carla