Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    I'm not sure I understand your definitions.  I have some VERY serious
    friendships.  Are you applying this to male/female situations only?
    
    I think you can have a relationship with anyone (employee/boss,
    etc.) and that does not constitute a friendship, nor does it imply
    something of a more serious nature.
    
    Help...explain....
    
    Debra
    

    RE .0:
    
    My perception of the difference between a friendship and a relationship
    is that a relationship is simply a close friendship with a
    sexual-interest element.  Everyone whom I've ever been involved
    with on that level has also been a close friend - and usually remains
    so after the romantic relationship has ended.
    
    I'm assuming you are talking about male-female relationships (or
    the equivilent for gays).
    
    Elizabeth
    

    RE:.2
    
    Something you said is key to what I'm trying to figure out.  You
    said
    
    >Everyone whom I've ever been involved with on that level has also
    >been a close friend - and usually remains so after the romantic
    >relationship has ended.
    
    I guess my question is, besides the physical involvement, what changes
    in terms of commitment, agreement, etc. in a relationship when you
    are actually "going out" with someone instead of seeing them or
    just being friends with them.  This is something my girlfriend and
    I are working out right now, and I was hoping for some guidance
    as to expectations of each other, of ourselves, etc.
    
    Scott
    
    

    Very shaky subject...when dealing with boyfriend/girlfriend situations,
    it is usually a continuum of getting closer, not just "ok, we are
    having a relationship now"  In many cases one person expects a lot
    more than another.  Should you expect to see each other EVERY weekend?
     Should you see only each other and not date other people?  Is it
    taken for granted that if you want to go out, s/he will go with
    you?  These are the type of questions I think you may be dealing
    with.  (of course I could be dead wrong)  
    
    In my case, I have "gone out" with some people for a short period
    of time and then never seen the other person again, fine.  But if
    I was really close with the person...a good friend....then we still
    see each other.  I think if you have a real relationship, you two
    can talk about anything, especially the subject of this base note.
    
    I am helping?
    
    Debra
    

    
      The easiest way I've been able to figure it:
    
        Friendship:  enjoying the company of someone else, without
                     regard to the way they look, act, feel, there's
                     no expectations.
    
    
        Relationship:  there are certain parameters that vary with
                       different individuals, appearance, activities,
                       exclusivity, it means a little more work,
                       compromise and/or communication, although
                       communication is important in friendship as
                       well.
    
         No I guess this doesn't provide an answer either, this is
         a tough one.
    
                                      Mark
    

    I think I'm in trouble.  I always thought relationship was the more
    general term, used to describe any two or more people who had some
    contact or interaction, as in --
    
    the relationship between myself and my boss
    the relationship between my mother and my sister-in-law
    the relationship among my daughter and all the girls on the gymnastics
                   team

    "In a relationship" sounds only slightly more useful than "I know that
    person." 

    A sexual relationship is just one kind of possible relationship. A
    friendship is another kind of relationship, one that can overlap sexual
    relationships and committed relationships but doesn't necessarily
    include either one. 
    
    What you call the relationship between you and a person you care about
    isn't as important as what you do about it and how you face the issues
    involved in getting any two people to interact with each other
    smoothly. 
    
    --bonnie    

    RE: .4
    
    Yes, the idea of continually getting closer is very true.  As far
    as I can see when two people stop "getting closer" or growing together,
    the relationship goes stagnant.  Expectations are more prevelant
    in a relationship, as yourself and .6 both said.  Correct me if I'm
    wrong but I believe that the expectations should be spelled out ahead
    of time, if they are not explicitly understood by both parties.  Or
    are there a "basic" set of ground rules (how often seen, seeing other
    people) that are implied by given situations?  Combination of both?
    
    Re: .5
    
    You used the phrase, "relating to each other in a meaningful way"
    a number of times, and I understand the thought behind it, but does
    that mean you relate to plain friends in a "meaningless" way?  I
    have had some very close friends that I relate to in a very meaningful
    way, both male and female, yet I would not say that I am "going
    out" with them.  Perhaps then we have to question the nature of
    a friendship vs. relationship. The sense I get from your note,
    especially the last paragraph (In a nutshell...), a relationship
    involves commitment, a friendship involves acceptance. One more
    thing...
    
    >and whether or not it includes sexual expression also is of no
    >concern to anyone.
    
    I may be reading into this, but perhaps we could say that sexual
    expression is not a NECESSARY, but OPTIONAL part of a relationship.
    Given this, we could say that a relationship exists without sexual 
    expression, as long as there is acceptance and commitment.  But 
    sexual expression existing without acceptance and commitment is 
    known generally as cheap sex.  Is this, then, a redefinition of
    a "best friend", or is that another matter altogether?  Is it a
    different kind of commitment?  Trust?  Perhaps this is another HR
    topic.
    
    RE: .6
    
    Yes, it is a tough one.  You brought up the idea of expectations;
    in a relationship there are certain things you expect from each
    other - based on the commitments you have made (.5).  You are right
    in that it takes "a little more work compromise and communication".
    As Bob said, "If I am comitted to someone, then that is all there
    is to it.  If i am not commited, I am my own person, and whatever
    I do is my business."  I think you both are saying the same thing,
    only in different.
    
    There is another common thread between .5 and .6 that I have to
    question:
    
    .5 >If I am not comitted, I am my own person, and whatever I do is
       >my own business.
    
    .6 >...it means a little more work, compromise and/or communication,
       >although communciation is important in friendship as well.
        
    Perhaps I take things too literally, but in neither line (and I
    hope I do not use them out fo context) do I hear= that friendship 
    takes compromise.  Is there a balance then between between acceptance 
    of someone else and compromise in a friendship?
    
    I know I've brought up many more questions.  Thank you all for your
    input so far.  Please keep the ideas coming.
    
    Scott
    

    Now I don't know what you are asking.  It seems to me that you are
    in a relationship, but don't know where you should go from here...are
    commitments being brought up?  Do you both see the relationship
    going in different directions?  (ending?  continuing on a more "serious
    level"?)   Why do you feel as though some "contract" of expectations
    should be made if you are enjoying yourselves?  If you can talk
    about how you feel, I don't think anyone will get hurt.
    
    Debra
    

    RE: .9
    Perhaps you've hit something there Deb.  I guess she has a different
    set of expectations in a "relationship" than I do.  I think you
    may have found an answer in when you said, "If you can talk about how 
    you feel, I don't think anyone will get hurt".  Someone could get hurt
    if one person wants more than the other is willing to give, but
    part of caring and being selfless, I have found, is giving in to
    other a little (compromise).  
    
    Maybe the easiest definition between friendship & relationship =
    like & love.
    
    SB
    

    I don't think it's as easy as saying friendship=like and
    relationship=love.  If you want dictionary definitions, you
    won't get much further.  A friend is defined as someone
    you "know, like and trust."  A relation is defined as both
    "kinship, by blood or marriage" and a "connection" such as
    a business or diplomatic connection.
    
    So, friendship has no *legal* implications - it's by your
    choice and continues by your choice.  It includes trust
    and seems to imply a long-term interactive activity.
    
    Relationship has legal implications (marriage or blood ties,
    or business or diplomatic connections) and *there's no inclusion
    of trust or knowledge of one another*.
    
    We tend to use "relationship" more loosely nowadays.  Perhaps it
    is because people of "high moral standards" now more frequently
    live with each other and/or go further in "friendship" without
    getting into a legal "relationship".  We still have the feelings and
    desire for the security of the legalities, but we don't want the
    binding of the legalities on the friendship.  I don't know if it'll
    work - it's a harder path methinks, since there are no bounderies
    to it.  It relies knowing each other (continuing to communicate),
    liking each other (continuing to like each other as we grow and
    change) and mostly on TRUST.  Although marriage relies on these
    things also, there's also the fact of the marriage, in all its
    legal, social and religious garb, to bind the relationship together
    during hard times - sometimes for good, sometimes for bad.  There
    is no legal and social framework to lean on during the hard times
    with a friend-relationship-whatever.  We don't even have a good
    word to describe it!
    
    I think the purpose is, to many of us, not to "ruin" the friendship
    with legal bindings - to keep the sense of being together from choice
    and not because we think we have to.  For others of us, it's a result
    of a failed legal relationship leaving bad memories of what the
    legal system can do to smash the last remaining fragments of the
    friendship, once the main portion was gone.  Once burnt (by the
    legalities) twice shy.

    --Louise

    I'm afraid I'm with Bonnie and Debra; relationship is the broader term.
    Having someone as your friend is a relationship, as is having them as
    your lover or supervisor. All of these are distinct, none implies any
    of the others. 
    
    Having been picky about terminology, I'll try to answer your question.
    
    It's really something that you have to work out with your girlfriend.
    Both of you should decide where you want your relationship to go. Then
    you should talk about it. You don't have to make it a five-year plan.
    If you don't know, that's fine. If you don't care, that's fine. As long
    as you are honest with yourself, you'll be okay. If you can manage to
    be honest with your girlfriend, that's even better (� :-). What you
    need to do is to establish groundrules. 
    
    	Jon

    RE: .8, RE: .5
    
    If you want to pick nits, you can pick them all day. The only 
    diffeerence between a "relatioinship" and a "friendship" is how
    you personally define the differences.
    
    I took particular notice of your "argumentive" attitude when you
    surmised that we might "relate to friends in a meaningless way",
    if we relate in "relationships in a meaningful way".
    
    You seemd to ignore (for your own purpose) my comments about 
    "relating to friends, and choosing friends for a relationship".
    
    .bob.
   
   

    A definition of a "Relationship", as heard on last night's
    episode of *Moonlighting*:
    
           "A Relationship is when two people spend a lot of
            time together, waiting for something (or someone)
            better to happen".
    
    Cute, cynical, ........perhaps all too true????
    
         
          Alan