Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    
    
    	Steve, where was that note about the guy in Cal. who shot 
    	another driver???
    
    	Personally, I think we are more disciplined than other drivers.
    	We have to be to survive.
    
    	BTW, I drive a 4x4 and consider my self young enough (at least
    	at heart :-) to be a young man. I'm not belligerent. I'm just
    	a seasoned Boston driver. (and proud of it!)
    
    						mike

    Is this Soapbox or Carbuffs?
    
    grins,
    Marge

     re .2:
     
     Indeed.
     
     
     re .0:
     
     Garbage.
     
     --Mr Topaz

    re.0-3
    junk
    

    Please, do not turn this note into another series of flames on 
    dirvers and driving. Relative merits of who drives better/worst
    are not appropriate to this file. 
    
    Tamzen, in appropriate moderator tone of voice ;-)

    re: .6 --
    
    Indeed!  What is this empty drivel about driving?  California is
    a big state; some areas have a lot of bird-flippers, some not.
    
    In sticking to the title of this topic, most Californians are less
    prone to aggressive displays of hostility than, for instance, New
    Yorkers and Bostonians.  In certain less affluent areas of LA, this
    is not as true.
    
    This has a lot to do with population density.  In a crowded, dense
    city such as NYC, it's not so easy to find retreat from other people
    when you really need it.  This tends to bring out the more primitive
    instincts.  Ever drive through Harlem in the summertime???  For
    those of you who have seen Watts and think it's rough there, you
    ain't seen nothin' yet.  I haven't spent a whole lot of time in
    either place (maybe that's why I'm still alive to write this note),
    but I've seen enough.
    
    After growing up in a NY suburb and then spending 10 of the last
    12 years in the Silicon Valley and San Francisco, I've come to the
    conclusion that it's better to let off a little steam now and then,
    even get downright **NASTY** sometimes, than to hold things in because
    you're trying to 'go with the flow' or 'be mellow'.  Those things
    have much to be said for them, but many Californians take it a little
    too far.  I admit this is a generalization; however, there is a
    lot of truth to it.
    
    When I was on the West Coast (up until this past December), I found
    that many people would be friendly and polite and act like everything
    was cool, then get back at you in some small (usually) and indirect
    way.  People would get freaked out by someone who got angry, and
    were afraid to show their own anger, even in a responsible way.
    
    In New York, people may not go as much out of their way to be polite
    all the time, but you know where you stand with them, and a display
    of warmth and friendship means more because most people are less
    likely to display such feelings unless they really mean it.  I've been 
    surprised at the number of people that go out of their way to be polite
    and helpful here.  People REALLY talk to one another in elevators and
    in stores.  It has a lot to do with your attitude (i.e. how others act
    toward you).  But they don't feel like they're *supposed to* be nice, which
    makes the friendliness that you do see much more refreshing, especially
    when things are rough.
    
    Californians, PLEASE don't get me wrong!!!!  I loved living on the
    west coast and loved the people there.  Life, for all the challenges
    and hassles, is more REAL here.  There may be more inconveniences
    and things to put up with, but that makes the simple pleasures more
    rewarding.
    
    I think there's a middle ground people need to look at more closely.
    
    Well, whaddya think????

    Well, Steve, since you ask....I was born in San Diego, lived
    there 32 years.  Finally moved to Colorado for some peace
    and quiet!!  I don't know WHERE people get the idea that
    Californians are "laid back" (whatever that means...)  Southern
    California is stressful, expensive, fast-paced and often danger-
    ous...
    
    I DO feel there are cultural differences between the east and
    west coasts (please, before I get flamed, I am GENERALIZING
    here)...
    
    My experience is that those from the east coast are cold, self-
    centered, introverts who are out for themselves.  They seem to
    be unemotional and uncaring.  Californian's tend to be warm,
    outgoing, show emotion easily and really do like to interact
    with other people...to reach out and make friends.  
    
    Maybe it has something to do with all those 'encounter groups'
    I attended in my late teens...or growing up in the late '60's.
    
    I don't know for sure...I do know that I don't get along well
    with most folks from the east (there ARE exceptions).  But then
    I usually clash with Taurus and Scorpio natives also...
    

    Easterners are just as warm and friendly inside as Westerners. 
    Speaking specifically about New York, there are ***SOOOOOOOO MANY******
    people here that you would go crazy trying to deal with people the
    same way you do in the west.  You have got to be somewhere like
    the World Trade Center area during rush hour to appreciate this
    to its full extent.  There are no words to describe it - oceans
    and oceans of humanity.
   
    Therefore those here may be less likely to go out of their respective
    ways to get to know you, but once they trust you they will be much
    more revealing of themselves than most Californians I met.  I've
    been through some latter-day encounter group types of activities
    myself, and some people that have done these feel safer in revealing
    themselves than the general population.  Many Westerners, however,
    are into more of a live-and-let-live lifestyle which translates
    into an attitude of "I'll be nice to you and let you live your life;
    you do the same toward me.  We'll be friends but don't get too close."
    There also seemed to be a bit of the rugged individualist in many
    Westerners, as if to show a lack of need for real emotional bonding
    with others.  Again, a generalization, but perhaps the rule rather
    than the exception.
    
    No offense taken, but Easterners are NOT! cold and aloof in general.
    As I mentioned in my last note, your own attitude and the way you
    act toward others has a significant effect on the way they act toward
    you. 
   

    Well, perhaps we should agree to disagree.  I stand
    by my earlier perceptions.  I have found them to be
    true.  Often, I will form an opinion of someone and
    then ask where they are from.  I am not often wrong.
    As I said, there are exceptions, but I stand by my
    original belief that those from the East Coast (and
    especially NYC) are more cold and distant, more aloof,
    more introverted and less sharing, than those from
    the West Coast.
    
     

    I have yet to meet anyone from the east that is friendly at first
    meeting, most make me feel as though they are aloof and untrusting.
    Most take at least 2 years after moving to colorado to understand
    the concept of the lifestyle here. Everyone I meet I consider
    my friend until it is proven otherwise.
    I have used most each time because I know no one here fits the
    pattern I have mentioned.
    
    Hey lets just start a new civil war over this!
    
    My only complaint is when I try to be friendly to a new person
    from the east and they react with a cold stare that makes me feel
    like I have invaded their space, I take this as rude.
    
    Anyone ever heard the term when in rome act like a roman?
    

        I've been a northern California resident most of my life and
    recently took my first visits to the east coast.  I went to Hudson,
    Ma. and Philadelphia, Pa.  I didn't really notice any difference
    in the friendliness of the people, but then again I'm not the type
    of person who says hello to everyone.  I did notice a big difference
    in the way agression is handled between the east and northern
    California.  I would say that Californians tend to channel their
    agression into selected areas such as work or participatory sports.
    It seemed to me that the folks I observed on the east were agressive
    in all areas of life.
    
        I lived in Texas for seven months during high school and I would
    say that Texans are the most outwardly friendly people that I have
    ever met.  Its not at all uncommon to be walking down the street
    and have someone greet you with a hello and a smile.  However I
    have never met as many racist, sexist, narrow minded people as I
    did in Texas.
    
        By the way there is a world of difference between northern
    Californians (read San Francisco bay area residents including the
    Monterey area), southern Californians (residents of metropolitan
    Los Angeles, San Diego, and Santa Barbara), and the rest of the
    state (the rural areas).
    
    ASP

    Oh, dear, I did forget the difference between No. Calif's
    and So. Calif's.....almost as if California was 2 states!
    
    I was referring to Southern Californian's when I made my
    comments (having lived there for 32 years)....maybe the
    climate has something to do with it...isn't the northern
    part colder and wetter, as well as being less populous?
    
    Maybe people tend to be more friendly if they spend a major
    portion of their life wearing as little clothing as possible?
    
    

    RE .12
    
    Hey Jer,
    
    did I ever give ya a cold stare!!!???
    
    (civil war starts now)
    
    Kimberly from Connecticut!
    

    RE .11
    
    I was perhaps a little overly analytical with the 'emotional bonding'
    stuff; I understand what you mean by 'rugged individualism' being
    a lifestyle.  It still appears to me that some people take the Marlboro
    Man (or Woman) bit to extremes.
    
    RE .12
    
    >> Anyone ever heard of when in rome do like the romans.
    
    I'm generally a proponent of the above, but it's often easier said
    than done.  A Colorado native who had occassion to spend an extended
    period of time in NY City might find it difficult to adapt to many
    of the customs here.
    
    When I was living in Palo Alto, we had a guy from New York relocate
    to our office.  He had a heck of a time getting used to our somewhat
    laid back ways.  To be honest, it was a real pain dealing with him,
    even two years after he had moved.  On the other hand, I found
    that most Easterners relocating to the West did so because they
    were really interested in a more laid back lifestyle, and adapted
    with relative ease.
    

    re.16 I did have a difficult time in NY! You couldent have been
    closer to the truth.
    
    Oh Oh Kim please dont beat me! You are already "converted".
    (he says in a futile attempt to save face....)
    I bet I'll get a cold stare now.....
    
    -jerry
    
    

      re.17
    
    
                        )  (
                        >  <
                        @  @
                        -  -
                         )*(
                          ^
    
                   cold stare!!!
    

    I lived for ten years in Southern California (San Diego), and let
    me tell you that it wasn't easy. O.K. Californians had an excuse.
    I was a foreigner (French). But let me tell you there was no language
    barrier. I have always been a friendly and outgoing person, but
    living there almost turned me into an uncivilized person. Sure people
    smile and say hello, but don't anybody think they are being friendly.
    It's all dramatically superficial. If you are not blond, blue eyes
    and surf, you are a subcreature that shouldn't be dealt with too
    close. I have lived in many countries all over the world, and I
    have always been able to adapt and make lasting friends I am still
    very much in touch with (and that includes the East coast), but
    after ten years in San Diego, most of the friends I have there are
    Europeans who like me gave up on Californians and just end up
    socializing with other Europeans. And it's not from lack of trying!

    Somehow it seems quite easy to be laid back when the sun is always
    shining!!!
    
    For Sure....
    
    DB

    Hey, come on... the sun doesn't *always* shine here.  We have nights
    too. ;-)
    
    ASP

    Let's see if I can add anything from another Californian's perspective:
    I have lived in California all my life. I grew up in Central Cal.,
    visit often in Southern Cal. and live in Northern Cal. 
    
    People are people, geographics/environment "help" mold people into
    reflections of the environment, but people are essentially the same.
    I would think, therefore, that Easterners are really just like
    Westerners, just in a different environment.
    
    In Central Ca. the pace is slower, so being "laid back" *may* be
    appropriate to some. In Silicon Valley "laid back" is a dream. It
    is too fast paced for that, as a rule. Everybody is doing everything
    all the time, everywhere. In Southern Ca. it is similar in the more
    populated areas.
    
    I suppose since change is so prevalent (here in Silicon Valley),
    that residents become acclimated to it, so there is a tendency to
    flow with that change since there is little else you can do, and
    still exist here. Perhaps that helps portray some image of being
    "laid back". As far as weather-induced attitudes ..... yes, the
    weather is generally appealing and there are many places to go
    for enjoying the appealing weather, so we Californians tend to 
    spend a lot of time doing just that, in one fashion or another.
    
    As the general population of the state grows, I have seen significant
    change in attitudes - both in the cities and small towns. The East
    Coast has undergone the metamorphosis that awaits particular West
    Coast cities, and no doubt the attitudes here will be similar to
    the attitudes there (whatever they may be). You would now have to
    visit the most rural areas of the state to find the "laid back"
    attitudes that were prevalent in most Cal. cities 20+ years ago.
    Or visit the more "rural" states of this country to find it. Cal.
    is changing - it isn't what it was in the 50's (when I was born),
    and with the propensity for change it will soon be forgotten that
    Californians were ever considered "laid back".
    
                                                       Marvin

    I use to live in Boston, (10+ years) and I currently live in Memphis,
    Tenn.  I thought I would throw out a theory and see what you people
    think about it.  Plus this would add the central part of the country
    to the debate.
    	I grew up in Dallas in the Central time zone.  Like many kids,
    I adjusted my lifestlye to the T.V. schedule.  Major programs went
    off at 10 p.m., new by 10:30, in bed asleep by 11 o'clock. When
    I went to New England, this same schedule kept me up to Midnight.
    Plus the traffic was so bad I had to get up even earlier to get
    to work on time.  The net result was 1-2 hours less sleep every
    night.  I think this comparison would hold true for many, and may
    explain why the whole East coast seems crankier to me than the central
    states. 
    	What do you think?  Might this be true?  I can't speek about
    California, I have never lived there.
    
    DRC
    

    I grew up in Owensboro, KY and now live in Worcester, MA.  I'm actually
    inclined to agree with .23 on the difference in time schedules.
     I'm  one of *those* people who wants 8 hrs. (sometimes more, not
    less) of sleep, and I am slowly adjusting to the new schedule here.
     I like to watch the news, keep up on what's going on, though I
    don't watch regular programming since I have very little spare time.
    
   I tend to get cranky if I go three or four days with less than 8
    hours a night, thank God for the weekend.  

    But on the subject of who is friendlier, or who is cold etc., I
    have found that the people up here are just as friendly and warm
    as the people from my hometown, in fact, at times they are even
    more so because I have an accent.  I'm perceived as being a "warm
    and friendly _southerner_"  (no, I don't consider myself a southerner,
    any more than I would consider someone from Indiana, Illinois, or
    Ohio one, but a lot of the people I've talked to up here have no
    idea where Ky is located)
    
    I have to admit, when I first moved up here, I almost had to have
    a translater, I had the hardest time understanding simple
    conversations, and there were quite a few people who had no idea
    what I was talking about.  Now that I can properly, for example,
     pronounce Worcester,(Whooostah), it's much easier for me to 
    communicate, thus opening the door for more new friendships and 
    meeting more warm and friendly New Englanders.

    I have been reading this particular note for awhile and I guess
    it's time to add my 2 cents worth.  I'm a New Englander and spent
    most of my life here.  I also spent several years as an adult in
    Southern California.
    From my experience - New Englanders are "colder", and are harder
    to get to know ( myself included! ), but once you develop a friendship
    it tends to be of longer duration.  On the other hand, I personally
    found Californians to be very friendly and easy to meet.  A friend
    once told me he felt he had many more "casual" friends on the west
    coast, and fewer ( but truer ) friends in New England.  I tend to
    agree.  As far as courteousy on the road, I'll take California anyday.
    I found drivers to be very courteous BUT you had to know the rules
    of the road and play by them. Example, drivers usually give you
    clearance to enter a freeway, but you better maintain proper speed
    - can't come to a stop and wait for an opening.