Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    I was amazed - I always considered myself a skeptic, but in
    reading "The Choking Doberman", I had revealed as myths more 
    than one story I had believed as the truth.  We're all vulnerable 
    to plausible stories that tug at certain aspects of our emotions.  
    I highly recommend these books to all, and I thank Bonnie for 
    reminding me of them.

    				Steve

    There's a simple reason why people believe these stories: they're
    plausible and in some way pleasing. They confirm the delightful
    suspicion that most of us have that there are people out there who are
    far, far more stupid than we are and the peculiarly calming belief that
    the world is a dangerous place. 
    
    	Jon

        Well, having read the books, you may not believe this but the
        law suit by the woman who micro-wave her dog reached a verdict
        last year and found in favor of the woman. This made the
        national news. Until that point I had always believed that the
        story was appocraphal, but the news media and a number of
        lawyers I knew certainly believed that it was a real finding. A
        few months later the decision was turned over on appeal and a
        number of lawyers and manufacturers breathed a sigh of relief. I
        didn't save either of the AP stories, but they were about a year
        or more (as much as two?) ago. It was about the time that the
        DEC policy on having parties where liquor was served was issued.
        I was discussing that policy with our DEC lawyer and he
        mentioned the recent micro-wave liability case. 
        
        JimB.

    Most of the "urban legends" that Jan Brunvand relates in his books make
    good stories.  They are often funny (as in the skiing incident), and
    usually have a scary twist.  Most have a message, such as "Don't
    smuggle animals across the border", or "Don't put your pets in the
    microwave". 
    
    I read all three books almost without stopping.  The books are just
    plain fun to read.  Not only that, but Mr. Brunvand did his graduate
    studies at my alma mater, which of course is a massive point in
    his favor!
    
    --Mike

    I found "The Choking Doberman" in a local bookstore in Nashua -it's
    in paperback.  That small store didn't have the other books.  Try
    a larger bookstore such as Lauriat's or B. Dalton and ask.
    
    				Steve

    I also found "The Mexican Pet" in hardcover today - I think it's
    too new for paperback.  Your local library probably has all three
    of these.  In stores, look under "Sociology".
    
    And, just a minor correction to Bonnie's base note, the author's
    last name is Brunvand.
    				Steve

    Re: .3
    
    Jim, don't believe everything you read in the newspapers.  The media
    is the single-biggest spreader of these urban legends today.  The
    following version of the "pet in the microwave lawsuit" is
    briefly described in "The Choking Doberman" - I presume the
    full text and analysis is in "The Vanishing Hitchhiker":
    
    	"The Microwaved Pet"
    
    	Question: What is the most outrageous court case you know
    	of? (Asked at Boalt Hall School of Law, University of
    	California.)
    
    	Answer: from Sheldon Siegel, third-year student: Have you
    	heard of the cat in the microwave case?  This is true, I think.
    	This is what I heard.  A woman or a man or someone's cat
    	got wet and they put the cat in the microwave to dry it off
    	and the cat exploded and the door to the microwave flew open
    	and injured the person.  The person sued the microwave company
    	for a defective latch on the door and won.
    
    	  (From "Question Man", by Conti," San Francisco Chronicle,
    	  30 January 1983)

re: .7 (looking in bookstores)

>    of these.  In stores, look under "Sociology".

I haven't seen a bookstore with a "Sociology" section in a long
time.  I thought they had all converted to double-size Psych
sections (with "How to" mandatory in the titles) instead.
							Pc.

    Re: .9
    
    The two stores in Nashua I found the books in had them in
    sections labelled Sociology.  The "How To" books you mentioned
    are usually under "Self Help".
    
    I'll note that "The Mexican Pet" contains a significant amount
    of rehashing of the earlier books, something I was not quite
    prepared for.
    				Steve

        re: .8
        
        That's not the version that was covered in the papers. The one
        that I read, was first off, much more specific--"In the 13th
        district court of East Oshkosh the case of Doe vs the Froboz
        Microwave company was decided today in the favor of Mrs. Jane Q.
        Doe, who sued because inadequate labelling of the microwave
        contributed to the death of her dog Sweet'ums." It is not often
        the case that the papers mistaken report findings of specific
        courts in cases with named defendants or plantiffs. 
        
        Beyond that it was covered twice. The first time when the case
        was decided in her favor, and the second when the appeal was
        decided against her. I ran into the second report on the radio,
        probably NPR. The first I read, heard and had reported to me
        from a lawyer. 
        
        Beyond that, it wasn't couched in the standard urban myth
        envelope--"This is true, I think.... A woman or a man or
        someone...". Now, as you get it from me, it IS in the standard
        form--I've forgotten the name of the person, the defendant, and
        the court and enough of the details that we're back to real
        legend-quality stuff.
        
        Finally, the story itself is much more believable than Sheldon
        Siegel's version. The animal merely died. It didn't explode. The
        door didn't fly off, and no-human was injured. The accident as
        reported in the court case I heard and read was much more
        straight-forward and mundane. The dog cooked from the inside
        rather than drying from the outside as it would in a regular
        oven and it died as a consequence. The woman was surprised and
        sued.
        
        On the other hand, ever since I was in college I have been
        skeptical of what I read in the papers. I went to college less
        than 15 miles from Kent State and saw a number of the news
        photos before they were printed--or rather before a SUBSET of
        them were printed. The difference in the story told by the full
        set and te national coverage was marked. In a similar manner,
        the experience of Woodstock and various marches on Washington
        was quite different at first hand than in the media. 
        
        JimB.

    As to finding the books - I just asked the librarian at our
    town library. She got them on inter library loan and then bought
    copies for the town library. Thankyou for correcting my mistake
    Steve.
    
    Bonnie J

    re .11:
    
    You're just embarrassed that you believed it.
    
    'Fess up!
    
    :-)
    
    - M

    re .11
    
    Jim, in "The Choking Doberman," Brunvand talks about this tale, and
    says that there are indeed actual newspaper reports of both the suit
    and its appeal, but whenever he or anyone else checks up at the court
    offices, they have no records of the suit. 
    
    	Jon
    
    P.S. I didn't mention this when we discussed this in the car a couple
    weeks ago (speaking of synchronicity) because I hadn't read that far in
    Brunvand's book. -- /.[

    Another of these things is circulating about in today's VNS. In the
    interests of accuracy: 
    
From:	STAR::CALLAS "Will it get some wind for the sailboat?"
To:	@CC354
Subj:	Drug warning is an urban legend

        I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but the "Blue Star Acid
        Warning" is an urban legend, an untrue story that circulates
        about, rather like the tales of the alligators in the New York
        City sewers and rumors that AT&T is about to buy Digital.

        Full documentation of this legend can be found in Jan Brunvand's
        book, "The Choking Doberman and Other 'New' Urban Legends." This
        book is available in paperback from most area bookstores.

        In short, the story has its origins in an off-the-cuff remark
        made by a police chief in the mid-west in the early seventies. A
        bust had been made of a large quantity of LSD, and they found
        blotters (not tattoos) with blue stars on them. A reporter asked
        if any LSD had been found on these blotters. The police chief
        said that he hadn't, but he had heard that the police in San
        Diego had. The story blossomed from that humble beginning.

        	For accurate information,
        	Jon

From:	STAR::MACY "12-May-1987 1001" 12-MAY-1987 10:04
To:	@CC354
Subj:	Drug Warning !  Lots of little kids love these candies. 

From:	OFFRT9::BDIMBAT "Bill Dimbat 268-3324  12-May-1987 0906" 12-MAY-1987 09:07
To:	@CLUB:DBA.DIS,BDIMBAT     
Subj:	Drug Warning

================================================================================
From: Bonnie Donahue .......................................... Maynard, MA, USA

The following message appeared in an organizational bulletin I receive. It is
scary enough to prompt me to pass it on. Hope you will make the information
available to friends/relatives who also have young children.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                    DRUG AWARENESS MESSAGE

                      LOOK AT THIS . . . 

                  A Warning to All Parents

    According to San Diego Police authorities, a form of Tattoo - "Blue Star" -
is readily available to young children. This is a new way of getting "acid" to
unsuspecting kids. It is in the form of a small sheet of white paper containing
blue stars in the size of a pencil eraser, with each "star" impregnated with 
LSD. Each can be removed from the paper and placed in the mouth. Absorption
also can occur through the skin by simply handling the Paper Tattoo!

    There are also brightly colored tabs, resembling postage stamps, which have
pictures of Superman, Mickey Mouse and other Disney characters, and are placed
in red cardboard boxes wrapped in foil in a clear, lock-type bag. A young child
could happen upon these and have a fatal "trip." It also is feared that little
children could be given a FREE "TATTOO" by older children who want to have some
fun. It is important that all parents be alerted in case their child is 
involved, even innocently. As you know, stickers are very popular now,
especially among small children.

    BE CAREFUL!


<><><><><><><><>   VNS Edition : 1316     Tuesday 12-May-1987   <><><><><><><><>

    Re .15
    
    _The_Mexican_Pet_ contains dozens of quotes from newspaper articles.
    Brunvand points out in the book that the popular media have become an
    important element in the dissemination of urban legends.
    
    --Mike

    "The Mexican Pet" also spends a lot of time on the "Elevator"
    story, suggesting that it may have had origins in an old
    Bob Newhart show sketch.
    
    				Steve
    
    P.S.  I'm so relieved to know that "Mikie" didn't really explode
    from eating too many "Pop Rocks"! :-)

    Not to say that any of the preceding legends are true, but do keep
    in mind that simply because something was written up as an urban
    legend doesn't guarantee that it will never happen. (Wanna bet nobody's
    ever put a pet in a microwave? Well - maybe not by *accident*.)
    
    It *would* be nice to find that most of those ridiculously large
    damage settlements made for silly reasons ("He tripped and fell
    while reading our paper so he's suing us for $4 million. We'll
    settle for $3 million.") were urban legends, too.
    
    Maybe they are...
    
    -b

RE: Putting a pet in a microwave...

Said pet owners should be shot in any case...  I certainly wouldn't even
put a pet in a regular oven!

Jim.

     >Said pet owners should be shot in any case!
    
    Are you for real? My brother rsises chickens and his kids
    consider them pets. I really don't believe he should be shot!
    
                    REK
    
    
    Oh yeah Smiley faces!  
    

    
    Come, come.  I believe Mr. Baranski is addressing the question of
    people who put live animals in microwave ovens.  One assumes neither
    your brother nor his children are given to this sort of behavior.
    
    DFW

    I think that people who might consider microwaving their pets just
    don't understand what it is they are doing.  They know that
    a microwave oven heats things, so why wouldn't it just dry off
    a pet?  I would imagine they'd stick Fluffy in the toaster oven
    if she fit.
    
    Brunvand talks about this concept in conjunction with stories that
    deal with misunderstood technology.  My favorite example is the
    guy who has just bought a new Winnebago, and has had the cruise
    control carefully explained to him by the salesman.  He gets it
    on the road, sets the cruise control for 60MPH, then steps in the
    back to get a drink.
    
    Everyday, people do things that they don't fully understand -
    and they take it on faith that it will work the way they expect.
    The funniest stories are where they are proven wrong.
    
    But I'd certainly hope that anyone who really cared for a pet would
    no sooner stick it in any kind of oven than they'd do the same
    with their child or themselves.  I COULD see this happening
    deliberately as a cruel prank.
    					Steve

    geeeez, All my hampsters like riding the carousel in mine....
    they all have so much fun they cant move when they get out...
    
    
    Look bobby a little furry baloon!
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Many 8^)'s
    

    Re: .25
    
    Yes, that story is true (though you are missing some details).
    I was living in Portland, Maine when it happened.
    
    Nobody ever said that every story ever told is false, but there
    are many of these untrue legends floating around, and it
    behooves us to try to separate fact from fiction.
    
    				Steve

    Perhaps one of the marks of a true story is that it has no
    punchline, just a sad tale of some person doing horrible
    things to another.
    
    It's also true that in a country of 230 million, and a world
    of 5 plus billion, even very unlikely things happen.  So it's
    not out of the realm of the possible that some woman has tried
    to dry off her dog in a microwave.
    
    But the story is called a legend because it has lost its base
    in fact and become a myth, complete with stock characters,
    a punchline, and a tie-in to wider current concerns (e.g.,
    the liability "crisis", and fear of new technology).
    
    A similiar process operated in the past--an ancient Egyptian 
    engineer/doctor (Imhotep), who was a real person and had a
    real life became a hero, then a demigod, and finally a god over
    time.  Along the way, most of the facts of his life and work
    were lost, and attributes of other gods were absorbed.  The
    same thing happened to Alexander the Great.
    
    So it's quite likely that there was a "real" Hercules, and a
    "real" King Arthur--it's also very likely that the real person's
    history was not as satisfactory a story as the myth is.
    
    				-John Bishop

(Not wishing to start a flame...)

Another "myth" that seems to be prevelant again is the oft-repeated 
myth that, after a divorce, the standard of living of the woman (and child)
will go down by 73% while the standard of living of the man will go up
by 43% on average.

If you claim that this is not a myth, then _please_ tell me the source of 
these figures; no, not the book that quotes them, but the survey on which
the figures are based.

					Nigel
(this is the source of a debate in the Conliffe household, and we'ld both
be happy for some resolution)

    Re: .28
    
    This statistic has been discussed (with little additional detail)
    in the RAINBO::WOMANNOTES conference, in the topic on "Child Support".
    You may want to contact the person who first made the claim and
    ask her for references.
    				Steve

|    You may want to contact the person who first made the claim and
|    ask her for references.
|    				Steve

Already did that, with little success. To paraphrase some mail, she doesn't
have a source for the numbers either other than that those numbers have been
stated in the book. That is one of the things that started me on the train of
thought that this might be an urban myth. Maybe I should put it in ASKENET?

				Nigel

    This hardly sounds like an "urban myth", at least not the kinds
    of things discussed in Brunvand's book.  Good luck!
    
    					Steve

    I notice that the "Blue Star" story is circulating around the net
    once again.  If someone sends it to you, please do NOT forward it
    to anyone, and let the sender know it is a hoax.  The latest version
    purports to come from the "Manchester/Concord (NH) area", and a
    "Cumberland County Sherrif's Department".  Note that there is no
    Cumberland County in New Hampshire.
    
    				Steve

    I work security in the Maynard area and that particular story
    was passed on to every security department in this area. Seemed
    pretty fantastic to me.
                                                        Tony S.
                                                        ltn/bxb security
    

    Well, it's not _always_ A BAD THING to put a pet in the oven, one
    of our Dalmations a year or so back had too many puppies and couldn't
    take care of them all, so they were brought up to the kitchen in
    batches, (fed with an eyedropper, the usual), and kept warm in a
    shoebox full of rags and cotton in a warm oven.  Note that the oven
    wasn't on with the puppies in it, and it was just warm, not hot.
    I still have (as evidence) a piece of paper that was taped over
    the oven controls saying "Puppies in the oven".  If you know what
    you are doing, fine, but it was a bit unnerving to see the sign
    before I had the explanation.
    
    Willie

    Re: .34
    
    You, of course, are referring to a gas or electric oven, and not
    a microwave oven, which was the subject of the urban legend
    discussed earlier.  James Herriot's "Moses the Kitten" also
    refers to this method for taking care of baby lambs (and said
    kitten).
    
    				Steve

    Digging up the blue star "hoax" again --
    
    I was reading the Hudson (N.H.) News a few weeks back, and they
    had quotes from the (acting?) chief of police to the effect that
    there had been raids _in Hudson_ which netted some of the stickers
    and tattoos.  I haven't called the police department to verify.
    
    If this is just a scare tactic, it's pretty morbid.
    
      -- John

    Yup, electric of course.
    
    Willie

    In Jan Brunvand's latest book on urban legends, "Curses!  Broiled
    Again!", there is a section devoted to the Blue Star acid rumors that
    were being spread over the last few years.  At one point he makes a
    rather interesting comment about the dissemination of this recent urban
    legend:

        Channels of distribution include school and company newsletters,
        office bulletin boards, and even computer networks.

    Even computer networks, eh?  :-)

    -- Mike

    As many of you may have noticed, the infamous Blue Star acid urban
    legend has been making the rounds of the network lately. 
    Unfortunately, this story is also making the rounds outside of Digital. 
    I was shopping at the Safeway store at Union and Academy tonight, and
    saw postings on this rumor at the cash register stations.  The postings
    appeared to come from a VAX mail message, since they included a MAIL>
    prompt.  Since Digital is the largest private employer in Colorado
    Springs, and since this rumor is circulating within Digital, it is
    entirely possible that this posting came from a Digital employee.

    -- Mike

    
    sure this is a case for the newly hired intelligence asgent..

    
    I plead ignorance - I have no idea what you're talking about.
    Can someone enlighten me (without breaking any rules)....?
    
    'gail

See .16 for an earlier instance of the topic of discussion.

			Steve