| Well, my mom never got visitation rights (my family was among the
weirdos who lived with Dad instead of Mom...), but she moved right
across the street and was always very accessible.
While she is a teriffic woman, my mom has never been very disciplined,
and my brothers and I grew up without any real sense of order in
our home: dirty dishes all over the place even though we ate off
paper when we ate home, never made a bed in my life before she moved
out and I doubt she made 'em more than two or three times a year,
general pigsty of a home, etc, etc. While this was at least as
much my dad's fault as it was hers, after the divorce we started
a very new life: we made our beds, we ate off china and drank out
of glass, daily and weekly chores, a tidy home, rules (with lots
of discussion -- Dad was a bit uncomfortable with watching his only
girl hit adolescence so he listened a lot to what I said). He married
two years later a woman that I wish had had more influence on
my more formative years.
Mom's house across the street made the house we all used to live
in look like a showcase for "House Beautiful": messy, dirty, dog
hair EVERYWHERE. I got into the habit of doing the dishes every
time I walked in her door. She had no rules, and was as angry as
Dad was about ever having known each other, and on top of it all,
she was pregnant and broke. Sigh.
There was little or no reason to visit her: her house smelled, she
cried all the time... it was simply not a comfortable place for any of
us. The oldest of my little brothers liked to play at being Mom's
knight in shining armor, I predictably spent a lot of time trying to be
a mother-substitute for the family while Dad got his feet on the
ground, and the youngest brother remained confused and manipulated by
Mom [he was her baby family for far too long]; nevertheless at one time
or another each of us has said out loud that we would prefer to live
with Dad and his rules than with Mom.
I think I was the first to stop visiting her because: 1) I was older
2) I sided (sort-of) with Dad from the beginning, and 3) Dad and
his wife made their rules very clear and explained that these rules
were always subject to discussion (with them holding the final word
of course) but were put there to make life nicer for all of us.
They were right; the discipline gave us a ... structure within
which we could live more easily, not having to think about things
which should be routine (washing clothes and dishes).
Brother #1 came around recently (circa age 18 or 19, but starting
earlier), and brother #2 is a basket case (clepto, lazy, flunked
out of 2 schools so far, hoping he'll graduate from high school).
*His* problems came before the divorce though. We all still love
our mother, but as we mature (who me??), we come to recognize EXACTLY
how much we can depend on her. She's great in many ways, but if
I had to live with one of the parents, it wouldn't be her (toilet
don't flush at her house :)).
The point in all this Gale is that my brothers and I lived through this
sort of "problem parent" thing and for the most part have come through
okay. It is said so often that it is a platitude, but your children
REALLY DO APPRECIATE RULES. Life must have some order, at least when
you are still a child. As an adult (sort of :)) you can decide whether
or not to abide by the rules with which you grew up, but there must be
something onto which you can fall back.
Point #2 is that I would be very leery of making ANY sort of judgements
about your ex for your kids. They can and do see for themselves
the differences between your houses. The "my house my rules" line
works very well (at least it did on us) especially when backed up
with "I'm doing this because I love you" and "would you *really*
be happy living like that [ie: with the ex]". The last is not to
be confused with "my rules, you don't like 'em, move in with your
[other parent]", which I wouldn't think could work at all.
And if they go through a time when they choose not to see their
dad for a while, don't worry, they will see him as much as they
want to when they can handle it a little better.
Gaaahhhh this is still too long.
Hang in there-- Lee
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| I am posting this for a noter who wishes to remain anonymous.
*************************************************************************
Right now I am finding out just exactly how painful one parent can
make it for the other parent to be a parent.
My soon-to-be-ex-wife returned from out of state April 13th with our
two sons. She returned to take care of the legal arrangements, and
because she had a job waiting for her. She was supposed to return to
her parents in the fall to finish college. I filed for divorce last
November, and supposedly we both have joint custody.
I thought it would be good for the children if we could share an
apartment with separate bedrooms; that way the children could be with
both of us as much as possible. Also we cannot afford two separate
apartments.
Unfortunately she is making the situation intolerable. I am verbally
abused for several hours a day, including up until 2am, making it very
difficult to get enough sleep while she is demanding that I listen to
her.
By the weekend I was a wreck. Normally I am a good driver, a bit fast,
but careful and under normal circumstances safe. That weekend I
rear-ended a car in city traffic with one car, and then missed a
driveway and slammed into a NE stone curb, ruining the front end on
another car. In neither accident was I traveling at any great speed or
speeding.
I have constant headaches, I can't get any sleep. Nothing that I work
on turns out well.
A couple of days ago I wanted to get some sleep at about 11:30. She
came in and said that she wanted a desk moved to her room. I told her
to shutup and go away, I was trying to sleep. She persisted. I told
her that if she did not let me get some sleep that I was going to move
her out of the apartment. She continued yelling, telling me what a
terrible person I was.
I finally got out of bed, pushed her back into the hallway and shut the
door in her face, and turned back toward bed. She physically attacked
me. I pushed her away from me; she is large, but she is not very
strong. In any case I was very shaken by the deliberate attack; what
was most upsetting was being attacked.
She had always been an emotional person, prone to throwing things,
screaming, and hitting things, and in the fall had almost pushed me
through a window. Lately, she has become even more abusive, and throws
things around without regard for the safety of me, or the children.
I do not want to go to court. I filed Assault complaints both times to
cover my ass. Now I just want to get away from her, and have the
children half the time. This time I am afraid. Where will it end? I
went to the courthouse and got an Order to keep her from "interfering
with my liberty", and an Order to keep her from leaving the state with
the children. I could not get an Order to get her out of my apartment,
or keep her away from the children until she has had counseling. As
luck would have it, my 'lawyer' is out for the week.
Supposedly, I could leave the apartment, but I still would not be able
to be with my children without the abuse. I can even take the children
with me for half the time. But she would come after them (and me) and
when what would she do then? Would she attack me again? Would she
take off with the children? In any case, I cannot afford two
apartments, and I would have to keep where I, or the children are,
secret, which I do not want to do.
I do *not* want to take the children away from her. I want her to be
able to continue being their mother. I want to continue being their
father. I want her to stop fighting me.
What makes it worse, is that I know that she loves me, and the children
very much. And I still love her, as well, and the children I love very
much. Before and after our first child was born, I was very confused
about whether I was miserable being around her, or whether I did not
want to be a father, but I want to have them with me half the time. I
just cannot be her husband, and she cannot be my wife.
I know that she is hurt, and fearful, and lonely, and wants to be
loved, especially by me, and the children. And I want to be able to
show her that I do love her, and the children love her, and that she
has nothing to fear from me, or from anyone. And that she will never
be alone, God will always be there for her. I would like to be able
to soothe her hurts, and love her, but I can't.
Nothing that I do helps to stop this escalation. She feels abandoned,
and strikes out at me. All I can do is move away, and she feels even
more hurt and fear; She did not want me to move away! She wanted me
to move toward her! But I cannot; I cannot be a martyr for her. Each
step I must but more distance between us, and narrow the communication
channel more to shut out her pain, because it hurts me too, and to keep
her from hurting me. That is not what she hoped for, she wants to know
all of me, yet she strikes out.
I tell her again and again, that this will not gain her what she wants,
me, and my love and respect for her; that this is the wrong way to go
about getting love and respect from someone. She just screams at me
and tells me what a cruel person I am to leave her, and that I want to
destroy her life, take away her dreams of teaching, and her children,
when I want to do none of those things. She tells me I am a horrible
husband, and a terrible father, and that my children will be better off
never knowing me, that it would be better for them if I were dead.
And yet through all this, I *do* still love her, and care about her,
and I do respect her. She has a lot of talents, and she is a
beautiful person. I do appreciate her good points and her talents.
All she sees is her failures, and blames them on me so that she does
not have to deal with them. I try to love her, tell her that it's all
right, that no matter what, we will both survive. I try to hug her and
she turns away.
I don't believe that divorce has to be like this. Divorce is a bad
thing, yes, but sometimes no amount of effort can correct a past
mistake. But you can admit to that mistake, and move past it, instead
of telling yourself that a divorce will destroy you, and then
destroying yourself to make it true.
There are some, including her, that say that I am an ogre, that I am
controlling, and orchestrating this very scene. No, I just try to move
away from the pain. I, like everyone else, need to love, and be loved,
and this pain is not love, it's even worse because it would be easier
if I or her did not love, it would not matter so much, it would not
hurt so badly.
So how can I stop this vicious circle? Leave, go away, 'die' to them?
I can't do that either; that's a kind of martyrdom too, to die inside.
Especially for the children... they did not ask their father to die.
Several days later...
The course I'm taking has helped a great deal. When I went I was full
of pain, all I could sense was pain; I was cut off from everything
else, trying to escape the pain; cutting myself off from the rest of
the world, but still not being able to escape my pain, and her pain.
When the person next to me ruffled my hair I could feel *immediate*
relief inside of me. When I got a hug from a friend about half my
walls collapsed allowing half the pain to leave me. You would not have
believed the effect of a mere touch.
The lesson happened to have been on the subject of Empathy; how being
empathic by taking on someone's pain and fear and hurt was the wrong
way to be empathic because it makes the pain and fear and hurt more
real, instead of realizing that all this comes from the Ego of our own
mind declaring it's independence, dominance, and responsibility for the
world it creates, rather then accepting God.
Do matter what she did, what I have to do, is continue loving her,
because I do love her. Just as I love my 2 year son, even when he is
throwing a tantrum. That is what part of the pain was; telling myself
that I could not and did not love her with what was going on. Even if
I have to upset my son, I do it because I love him. I don't punish him
for doing something wrong, and I don't let him get away with doing it
either. I simply show him what he can and cannot do, letting him have
the greatest possible freedom, but protecting him and other things when
necessary. And I keep loving him.
Is long as I keep a loving frame of mind about she, I have no pain.
She may throw a tantrum, and I still love her, even if I have to
threaten to call the police to get some needed peace and quiet.
Even though now she is going to take me to court, probably get custody
of the children, and demand full child support from me, and move to MI,
and I will not be able to see my children. If she does this, I cannot
stop her, and I must continue to love her. The decision is up to the
court, and I will fight it, but it does not look good.
|
| re: .9
I'm sorry I didn't take the time to read your reply in full
the first time that I saw it. My own position is not that dissimilar
apart from the fact that my "ex" cannot leave the area so I will
continue to se my daughter - when allowed.
I can't really impart any advice but maybe the thought that
you have a fellow sufferer - perhaps a little further down the road
may help
I left our house and moved in with a friend for a couple of
months. He got me out of myself and started me in the process of
being relaxed and being "free" (I use the word guardedly). Eventually,
I moved out and got an Apartment of my own, close to work, in an
area where I had few friends. I'm still in the process of making
new friends and I have not found it as easy as I thought but the
continuing challenge has made the situation with my "ex" fade into
the past - today gives me enough challenges, yesterday's, I've given
up trying to solve. One day, I woke up and thought "well, this is
is, this is the rest of my life, so I'd better get off my ass and
start working towards MY future -because I have one !" - which believe
me is quite a revelation at 6:30 in the morning !
But the process had started, every day gets easier and encouraged
by a few close friends and supported by my family - I'm getting
back to being a human being again, instead of an empty shell. It's
still hard and I still get angry,frustrated and hurt (as some of
my friends could tell you) but it's working. I'm stronger for the
experience, I learned and I can now care again about others outside
of myself.
At some point in the future, your instincts for self preservation
will take over and you'll find a little bit of sunshine peeping
out from behind the clouds - hold on to it and don't let go. Sometime
soon - you'll see a whole,clear blue sky. And life will start again,
whether you are in the relationship you have now, working towards
a long term solution or whether you part permanently and are getting
on with the next stage of your life.
I've parted permanently and I'm working to adjust - I have friends
who I care about and they care about me. There is someone very special
to me - who understands and cares and I can turn too when I'm in
trouble and these things are my life now and I'm contented and happy.
I've strayed slightly from the point however, where is my daughter
in all of this ??. Well, my "ex" is making it very hard for my daughter
and I to be together - I can't change that and I refuse to crawl.
My daughter will always be in my thoughts and she will always receive
letters and cards should I move away (it's my life... I can move
if I want). One day, I firmly believe that my child will realise
that there are two sides to every argument and when she asks for
my side - she'll get the truth and the reasons behind. If she can't
accept that - then there really is nothing more I can do. I have
to live my life for ME - I can't live it any other way.
Try and discover what it is you want to do and then just go
and do it - it really is as easy as that. Or it's as hard as you
choose to make it. Good luck and take care of yourself - don't try
and solve it all in one go... as everyone in this conference says...
"One day at a time...."
be lucky,
Steve
|
| God, all these horrible divorce stories!
My situation is a lot more pleasant, let me relate it and perhaps
some of you can infer some advice from it.
I and my (soon-to-be-ex) wife separated and filed for divorce in
December. We agreed to joint (shared) custody. Our son goes back
and forth a lot and my wife and I communicate almost daily to
co-ordinate schedules, and to discuss how to raise our son.
We talk about such things as education, discipline, schedules,
feeding, etc, to make sure we have a co-ordinated strategy for raising him,
and to make sure we don't confuse him with radically different
rules and schedules in each household. We try to re-inforce each
other, e.g., if she's teaching him certain things (such as arithmetic
or reading) she'll let me know so I can re-inforce the lessons
when I have him.
The result is that our son is happy, bright, and adjusting well
to the divorce. Kids handle divorce best when they see a lot of
both parents and the parents remain amicable; kids do worst when
either they lose touch with one parent or they see their parents
fighting or quarelling. My wife and I agreed to be amicable (difficult
though it may be at times) because we both love our son and want
to do what's best for him.
We discovered early on that the best strategy for remaining amicable
is to only talk about our son when we talk to each other. Other
subjects - e.g., talking about money, talking about new boyfriends/
girlfriends, etc - are not discussed. Money issues are always
handled through lawyers. If we try to negotiate alimony and property
settlement issues directly, we end up shouting at each other. Using
the lawyers as middle-men preserves the peace, and is well worth the cost.
I think it's incredibly childish for two adults to let their bitterness
toward each other interfere with raising their kids.
My advice to .0 is therefore to see if there is some way you can
cut through the bitterness and hostility, and discuss with your
ex the strategy for raising the kids. You don't have to be best
friends with him; perhaps you two can just be adult enough to talk
cordially for a few minutes about rules and discipline and so on
during visitation periods. Maybe you can bend a bit (I'm not big
on "rules" and "rigid schedules" myself and I don't see anything
wrong with dinner at 9:00 and VCR movies), in return for him agreeing
to stop lying or belittling you in front of the kids. Make it
clear that this is being done for the kids, not for you.
Hope the above advice is useful,
Rich
P.S. to .9 - I'm sorry, sharing an apartment while in the process
of getting a divorce is just plain stupid. You sound very confused
about your feelings. You and your wife should both see (different)
psychologists. That last sentence is meant as sincere advice, not
as an insult. There's nothing wrong with seeing a psychologist
to work out your feelings during a divorce, my wife and I are both
doing so and I believe it can help if you find a good one.
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