Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    ah...the memories...
    
    I had a long distance relationship back when I was in college...the
    lady in question lived in New York and was going to school in
    Pennsylvania. (My home was in Boston).
    
    During the time that we were together, we had a very close
    relationship. Her mother even introduced me (to a relative) as her
    future son-in-law.
    
    Unfortunately, she needed someone around all the time.  I only saw
    her every two weeks or so (during the summer).  She broke it off
    after a month into the next semester.
    
    One of my mistakes was that I wasn't selfish enough.  She had a
    choice of going to Temple (In Philly) or SUNY Albany.  I told her
    to go to Temple instead of SUNY even I was 10 minutes from SUNY
    (at RPI).  I was thinking ahead for her future and I wanted her
    to go to what I thought was the better school...I always regret
    that....
    
    ...shit...what a bummer...
    
    
    The Mad Chinaman
    
   

        There were a lot of things that broke up my relationship with my
        first finac�e, so it's hard to be sure exactly how much distance
        contributed. I tend to think that it was factor, but only an
        aggrevation of others. 
        
        Betty's family never approved of me--I wasn't Armenian and I
        wasn't working class. Our relationship stood up to their
        disapproval while I was there, but when I was 750 miles away,
        and could only see her occassionally and they were there 24
        hours a day, the end was probably inevitable. Until it did end,
        we did just about everything to keep in touch. She came out to
        Ohio once. I hitched back and forth every 2 to 3 weeks. We spent
        lots of time on the phone and we wrote plenty of letters. 
        
        I'll try to think about it a little more and see if I can
        contribute anything else.
        
        JimB.

    I'm not sure if this constitutes a long-distance relationship, but
    I met Daryl (my hubby) while I was in college.  He had a job with
    the Computer Services Group that supported my college.  I had met
    him on the computer and because of lack of vehicle of my part and
    his job being a three-hour drive away, we didn't see each other
    much for the first 4 months of our relationship.  Luckily summer
    came around and we were able to spend a lot of time together.  The
    time apart made the few times we were together very special and
    luckily, it lasted.  We're coming up on our 5th year of marriage
    (in August) and it's gotten better since the beginning.  We've been
    separated (by job needs) a couple of times but it hasn't stopped
    us yet and I doubt it ever will!
    
    					*** Kristy ***

        I had a hot and heavy romance with a woman in college during
    the spring semester.  She planned to spend the summer with her
    Grandparents in San Diego, then with her father in Utah.  Then she
    would come back to the San Francisco area for a week before heading
    off to Germany to spend a year in Munich going to school.
    
        I had a difficult time during our initial seperation while she
    was in San Diego, but as the summer wore on I got used to the
    seperation.  We spent a lot of time on the telephone and ran up
    some enormous bills.  We didn't write that often because the phone
    was more natural for us.  When she came back at the end of the
    summer I didn't get too excited because I knew she'd be gone in a
    week.  She was just the opposite and my attitude disappointed her.
    
        When she got to Germany, she had a difficult time and wrote
    me once or twice a week.  I responded about three weeks after she
    left for the first time.  During that year her interest decreased
    and mine increased, but she still came back to me after the year
    was over.  Near the end of her year in Germany I was the one sending
    letters once or twice a week, and she was responding monthly.
    
        I displayed the classic "Lonely Puppy" syndrome hanging all
    over and emotionally suffocating her.  She became more and more
    attracted to my best friend and was his by the end of June.  The
    circumstances of their initiation of the relationship broke my trust
    of them and I was quite hurt.
    
        I do think that things would have been different if I'd have
    been less intense upon her return from Germany.  In retrospect
    though I believe that all things turned out for the best.  The
    following year of college was the best year of my life thus far
    and I found my wife.
    
        My best friend and my ex girlfriend got married and have a little
    girl.  We had them over to our place just last weekend, and are
    still friends.
    
                                          Tony Purmal

    My long-distance relationship didn't start out that way.  When I
    was in college, I got involved and then engaged to a man in the
    Air Force.  About nine months before we were going to get married,
    he got transferred to Virginia (I was going to school in N.H.).
    
    I did pretty well at first, but after he had been gone for a time,
    I stopped missing him and got so involved in my own life that I
    wasn't able to picture how he would fit back into it.
    
    The separation was definitely a factor in ending the relationship
    (I brough up breaking the engagement by letter and we ended it when
    he was on leave), but a positive one for me.  I was definitely
    infatuated, but it wasn't the marriage kind of love.  And it turned
    out not to be for him, either, because he married someone else three
    months after we split.
    
    G

    My mother says I should own part of "Ma Bell" by now.  I earned
    most of it in college, with two long distances romances back to
    back (some people never learn).  The first lasted less than three
    months, and differences rather than distance did us in.  The second
    I nearly married.  He lived in Connecticut and I in Massachusetts.
    We saw each other about once every two or three weeks, usually
    for three or four days at a time (staying with parents).  We certainly
    got to know each other's families well enough!  What probably did
    us in was lack of trust.  After a while I started wondering what
    he was doing when he wasn't with me, and he started thinking the
    same things about me.  The relationship lasted about two years.
    We didn't write much, but spent exorbitant amount of money on
    phone bills.  Talking was more natural for us.  Ironically enough,
    we weren't on speaking terms when we broke up.  We were very close,
    and it still hurts sometimes.  But, I *did* enjoy the freedom I
    had - I could go out with my girlfriends on week-ends, catch a
    movie, spend time with my family - without impacting my relationship.
    However, I also wished I could have spent more time with him - I
    think in the end, that could have made a difference.
    
    Mary-Michael

    Steve,
    
    	I have just survived a long distance romance, although my SO
    and I only had 65 miles between us.  We have not had a weekend to
    ourselves since June, as we spent the weekend with me there, or
    him here.  Our phone bills were a little higher, as I REFUSED to
    use VAXPHONE, since written communication was the demise of my last
    relationship, and we worked harder to have quality time with me,
    and with the girls.
    
    	Now, I am moving back to within 10 miles of him, so we don't
    have to worry about the distance anymore, infact just this evening,
    we decided we were going to miss *our weekends* together.
    
    	I think the key to long distance is LOTS of communication, little
    surprises (I was in Maynard, and left him a balloon in his car -
    funny, he knew immediately it was from me :-)...), such as a card
    in the mail, or leaving a "love you" note in his drawer to find
    after I had left on Sunday, and the willingness to work the extra
    mile it takes.  Really *loving* the person helps too 8-).

    
    Gale
    

    We met in college in March and spent a heady, tumultous summer
    in the throes of passion until I left in September for another school
    4 hours away.  Pretty quickly I began to resent having to
    compartmentalize my life; during the week I was a student living
    here and on the weekends I was a lover living there.  Time passes
    very quickly because you are always looking ahead to the next
    weekend.  You grow old too fast and miss too much of what is right in 
    front of you.  Life takes place right here and right now - period.
    
    Sunday nights caused me pain and boredom at the thought of another 
    long lonely week ahead, so much so that it got to be not worth the 
    thrill of Fridays.  And of course not EVERY moment together is
    positively thrilling, but the hurried nature of this type of
    relationship puts too much pressure on quality to make up for quantity
    and cannot withstand normal human mood fluctuations.  How you part
    on Sunday night becomes a CONSTANT major issue.
    
    I learned all this before he did and initiated the breakup.
    
    This all took place about 8 years ago, and if you had asked me as
    soon as five years ago if I thought proximity would have changed
    things I would have said yes.  I did "wring my hands" for awhile over 
    my decision to change schools and what I had imagined it cost me, but 
    I don't any longer.  Life is dynamic, ebbing and flowing and not
    a straight line to an end point of THE relationship.  Sure I lost him, 
    but I didn't lose "the ultimate" because no such thing exists.
    
    I learned all these things and I learned that I will never engage
    in such a relationship again because it just doesn't work for me.
    A lover is one who shares my life and no long distance person can
    do that.
    
    

    Are you talking about distance as in miles [physical]
    or distance in communication.  They really are
    not too much different and both have caused pain.

    Like Sandy said, it's not worth the very low feelings
    to wait for the high feelings.

    Hi Michael!
    
    You don't share day-to-day things - you don't even KNOW the day-to-day
    things of the other person and spend your time together "catching
    up" instead of going forward, and the rest of your life slipping
    backward in terms of the relationship.  Telling your lover of happy
    things since you last were together can bring suspicion and telling 
    your lover of your pain can cause a burden.  Knowing you will soon
    part again makes you not have to live with your words and they can
    become hollow.
                               
    Physical distance brings about distance in communication and that's 
    the death knell for love.

    	Here's a slightly different side of being separated.  Many
    of my generation got caught up in the Viet Nam era with the
    draft and all.  I ended up spending a year at a remote radar
    station in Alaska.  This was actually a preference over southeast
    Asia.  There were no females within 20 miles of my site (and no
    road covering the 20 miles...).
    
    	There are several very vivid memories of those awful times.
    Many marriages and relationships dissolved for those I knew.  I
    was "lucky".  My son turned from one year old to two years old,
    and barely knew me when I returned.  I viewed the year as a large
    hole in my life - just biding my time.
    
    	Our marriage survived, but the bitterness of "losing" a year
    never went away.  I feel that on the positive side there were no
    women where I was.  It must have been even more difficult for those
    who found themselves separated, but with other women/men around,
    and the opportunity for more normal relationships.
    
    	Phone bills were high, and we kept in touch through audio tapes.
    They are cheap and convenient, and more personal, especially for
    those who hate to write (without a terminal!).  I recommend it,
    especially for those on a fixed budget.
    
    	In the end, you sure do come to appreciate the things that were
    not possible during the separation.  I sure know that things can
    be worse!
    

    Hi Bob - I can appreciate your situation, but I still say long
    distance relationships all experience the same negative stresses
    that I've outlined.  If you are in a committed long distance
    relationship then you may deal with those stresses differently than 
    if you weren't, but the stresses themselves are the same.  Motivation
    certainly can and does overcome them.
    
    For me, though, knowing the inherent stresses of a long distance
    relationship I would not actively pursue such a situation.  There
    are cases, I suppose where people just "find" themselves in this
    situation but again, this goes back to one of my fundamental tenets
    - I never just "find" myself in situations.  My eyes are always
    wide open and knowing what I can and cannot deal with, I must act
    accordingly given the circumstances.  A military man would not be
    high on my list of 'baskets to put all my eggs in' simply because their
    first allegiance is to some outside force and I know I can't live
    my life at the whim of some unseen, (to me), force.  So my chances of 
    ever finding myself separated from an SO because of the military are
    nil.  Likewise, after learning what I did about LD relationships the 
    hard way, while in college, I stopped looking for an exclusive
    relationship while I was still a transient myself.
    
    Were a 'settled' relationship to threaten to become long distance due 
    to job transfer, (which can and does happen at any time), then the 
    relationship MUST be downgraded to wistful friendship. I'm assuming
    all the possiblities to avoid the LD distinction have been explored
    and rejected.  Pining from afar is boring at best and very self
    destructive at worst and people who can't handle it, (like me), are
    wise to take every step necessary to insure that it doesn't occur,
    or to engage in self-preservation tactics should it somehow occur anyway.

    Well, I've now been married nearly 20 years to a man who I dated
    on weekends in college. We kept in touch by phone and letter during
    the week and found the chance to comunicate by paper helped us
    learn about each other. At the time we were both attending single
    sex colleges so this type of dating pattern was considered normal
    by all of our friends. We tended to use the weeks to concentrate
    on our studies, and the weekends to conentrate on each other.
    Bonnie

    I met Sharon on a bus tour of the United Kingdom in '85. She was
    was from Wisconsin and would be attending a college in the suburbs
    of Chicago. When we first met, we didn't get along too well. But
    by the time we got to Scotland, we would leave the tour group and
    go sight see by ourselves. And we had FUN!! We had a lot in common,
    but just a few differences in background, which made find out about
    her very interesting. 
     When the time came to go home, we promised each other that we would
    stay in touch. So for the next six months we wrote and called each
    other once or twice a week. Just by talking on the phone, we got
    closer. We would catch up on what was what, but at the same time
    we would talk about our dreams and goals in life. We "coached" one
    another when we were down, and cheered when we did good.
     To make a long story short, I went to visit her on her spring break
    and the proverbial "Bolt from the Blue" struck and I was head over
    heels in love, as was she. (It's soooo nice that it happened that
    way!!!!! :^) ) For the past year, I've been walking on cloud 9,
    and I hope I never have to come down. 
     
     I think Gale in .7 hit the nail on the head. Communicating is very,
    very important. Not just "getting caught up" on day-to-day things,
    but where WE'ER going, what OUR dreams are, and how we feel about
    anything. 
     Trust is important too.As is wanting to work at the relationship.
    It's very hard to cope sometimes, but all I have to do is call and
    hear her voice, and everything is ok. And I don't think there is
    anything that we can't work out together. That helps with dealing
    with being physically apart, too. The phone takes away the physical
    distraction over, say, looks, money, status,etc., and let's you
    get into the person themself.
    
     Sorry to go on and on. You all caught me missing her and it's so
    nice to have you here to help. Thanks!!!!
    
                                Kevin J.
    
    Ps- The phone bills and plane tickets are murder!!!!!
    

          I have to agree with Sandy on  the  stress  of  a  Long
     Distance  relationship.  It's hard emotionally and for me, I
     tended to ignore the traits of the woman I  was  dating.   I
     was  working  at  a customers site and flying home every two
     weeks to a month for a weekend.  This went on  for  about  1
     1/2  years.  We ended up married but I soon found out that I
     didn't marry the woman I thought I was dating.

          I found I didn't know anything about her until  it  was
     too  late.   I had thought of postponing the wedding but she
     was so set on it, I just didn't have the heart.  Should have
     listened  to  my  feelings.  I should have spent the time to
     get to know her better.

          I don't think you can get to  know  someone  by  seeing
     them once in a while no matter how well you communicate thru
     letters or phone.  You've got to have that time together and
     I  feel  the best way is to live together before making that
     decision.  For myself, I'ld rather forget  the  relationship
     if  it  has  to be Long distance.  If you're willing to make
     the commitment to get married then you should be willing  to
     move  together and postpone the marriage until you're sure -
     even if it means moving across country or across state.

     The sun doesn't shine thru clouds of distance.

     Lee

A friend of mine got married when he was in grad school near
San Francisco to a woman who was going to grad school around
Los Angeles.  (For the benefit of any Taxachusetts-ian who
has never looked at a map of anything west of the Connecticut
River, that is a LONG way.)  They had known each other (long
distance) before grad school too.

After 3 years of school and visiting on weekends, they finally
both graduated and got to live together.  A year or so later
they were getting divorced!

Maybe the moral of this is that relationships that thrive in
long distance mode (for instance, many famous correspondences)
will wilt under the heat of living in close proximity, and
possibly vice versa.

   I am posting this for someone who wishes to remain anonymous.
    
    
   ******************** 
    
    
   I've been involved with someone on the opposite coast of the US for
   over a year now. Being separated doesn't really cause me any stress.
   This must be partly because I enjoy my own company enough to like
   spending time alone, and partly because I'm involved in so many
   activities that I rarely have a free evening. 

   This kind of affair can really sharpen your sense of living in the
   present, which I think is a good thing. You know that even if it
   lasts a long time it almost certainly can't last forever, and you
   have to enjoy it for what it is. 

   And it works! It's wonderful! I'm not looking for anything different!
   I don't imagine it's for everyone, but like any situation you find
   yourself in, you have to make the best of it. 

   Right, trust and communication are important. We keep up with each
   other's day-to-day lives by electronic mail and by keeping running
   letters going. Keeping up a correspondence with someone close can be
   therapeutic, the way keeping a diary is therapeutic. Our phone bills
   are higher than they would be otherwise but not outrageous, and if I
   weren't spending money on plane tickets I'd probably be spending it
   on something else! 
    

Long distance romance has worked for me in the past. 
 
 Once upon a time, somewhere around a decade ago, I fell in love with
a woman who lived in West Berlin, Germany.  At the time, I was living
in Biel, Switzerland, and commuting to Eberswalde in East Germany via
West Berlin. 
 I spent a couple of happy months with her in West Berlin (spread out over
about a year); we wrote to each other and phoned each other, and enjoyed
each others company even though we were apart for much of the time. We traded
recipes, we went to see the same movies (although not together, of course) and
compared notes on them, we exchanged recommendations for books to read, etc 
etc. We got to know each other really well (mentally) and, when we could, we
got to know each other physically.
 Then I moved to Montreal, Canada, and we continued the relationship from 
there. Of course, we didn't get together as much, but we had lots of fun
when we did. And we shared some marvellous descriptions of the way we both saw
the world. 
 I still have some of the letters from her, and I'll treasure them always
in a little private part of my heart. 

 So a long distance romance can work. The only major difference that I saw
between this and a more local relationship is that it's a little unrealistic to
expect or demand fidelity in such a situation!! E.G.
	"Have you been faithful to me?"
	"Oh yes, lots of times!!!"


			Nigel

    As I am about to embark on one, I'll keep you all informed!
    

    I had an experience some years ago.  A friend of mine from high
    school, who I had a *serious* crush on, got in touch with me at
    college.  He was living about 6 hours drive away.  He visited me
    once a month for about 4 months, and this to me was enough to make
    him my SO.  He then moved to about an hour away, and saw me on most
    weekends.  Unfortunately, he was very different from what I had
    anticipated, as he came out to see me more and more often, or I
    went to see him.  He was involved in some things I did not approve
    of (namely taking powerful drugs often), and he began to show some
    character traits that I had not seen at a distance.  Honestly, I 
    began the relationship with every intention of making it last, but 
    as I grew to know him more, over the following few months, I did 
    not see what I had expected.  He did not talk a lot about the 
    relationship, so I did not know what his intentions were.  
    Unfortunately, just as I decided to start seeing him as a friend
    only, he decided to tell me he expected we'd get married....ouch
    (on both parts).
     Truth be known: make SURE you know the person well, know their
    intentions, and keep the lines of communication open.  Relationships
    don't take care of themselves, especially as the miles are long,
    and the time together is short.

    jody
    

================================================================================
Note XXX.0                 LONG-DISTANCE LOVE AFFAIRS                  5 replies
CSMADM::GOINS                                        17 lines  21-SEP-1987 16:44
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    My name is Kim and I am involved in a Long-Distance Love Affair
    with a guy who is on TDY (Temporary Duty) in Thule Greenland for
    a year.  We communicate by cassette and letters and he calls me
    every Monday for 10 minutes.  We are planning to relocate
    together when his year is up.  He gave me his Grandmothers
    diamond about a month before he left and asked me to marry
    him, but then backed out 10 days later.  He said he didn't
    think it was fair of him to ask me to wait a year.  I've know
    him for 7 years.  We were best friends first.
    
    Anyway, I was just curious if anyone out there is or has been
    involved in a long-distance love affair and how they deal with
    it.
    
    Any feedback will be appreciated!
    
    
================================================================================
Note XXX.1                 LONG-DISTANCE LOVE AFFAIRS                     1 of 5
PLDVAX::ZARLENGA "I'm Jack, Phil's brain is on hold"  0 lines  21-SEP-1987 17:18
             -< only if he can dance and weave his chest hairs ! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Note XXX.2 omitted]
================================================================================
Note XXX.3                 LONG-DISTANCE LOVE AFFAIRS                     3 of 5
SSDEVO::YOUNGER "This statement is false"            28 lines  21-SEP-1987 21:29
                 -< Yes.  I don't learn from one experience. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Yes, I have been involved in long-distance love affairs before.
    If it's more than short term (about 3 months), I no longer believe
    they work.
    
    The first time was while I was in college.  We had been in love
    previously (we had known each other since grade school).  It was
    for certain a long-term long-distance thing.  Eventually, phone
    calls and letters became fewer and shorter, then disappeared entirely.
    We still call each other occasionally, but it was too hard keeping
    up the emotional closeness when we were over 1000 miles apart.
    
    The second (the one that worked) was with someone I had gotten to
    know in college.  However, it was known from the beginning that
    the separation was only until he graduated at the end of summer.
    Only about 3 months of separation.  We lived together for 4 years,
    then broke up for reasons I won't discuss here.
    
    The third was someone I met through DEC, we exchanged Mail, talked on
    the phone, talked on VAXphone, visited each other, fell in love...
    But, alas, separation makes the heart fonder - OF SOMEONE ELSE!  Seems
    to have been true for both of us, but more me than him, and it fizzled,
    but we remain friends. 
    
    All in all, I think it is a pretty nice way to break up, but no
    way to continue a relationship over a long period of time.  Can
    be exciting though.
    
    Elizabeth
================================================================================
Note XXX.4                 LONG-DISTANCE LOVE AFFAIRS                     4 of 5
NFL::GOINS                                            7 lines  22-SEP-1987 09:31
                                -< Ooooooops! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    STEVE,
       Sorry about the duplicate topic, will continue my replys
    on the original note (#198).
    
    
    P.S.  Phil, very observent of you!
    
[Note XXX.5 omitted]

    I started this note when I had just begun a long-distance romance.
    It all went well until she backed out of our plan to have her move
    close to me - saying she just couldn't do it, and didn't know when,
    if ever, she'd be able to do so.  I could handle a definite waiting
    period of months, but to have it stretch out indefinitely into
    the future was more than I could take.  
    
    We still care for each other, but the passion is gone.  The miles
    are just too much of a gap to allow us to continue this way for
    a long time.  (And it is not possible at this time for me to move
    to be with her.)  We part as friends. 
    
    It is very sad and very painful.  I will not enter into another
    long-distance relationship and advise against it for anyone else.
    For a few months, if you know each other well already, it can
    be handled, but especially for a new relationship, you tend to
    rush into commitments in an effort to bind the two of you together,
    and it rarely works out in the end.
    
    			Steve

    Until recently, I've been out of H_R since about the beginning
    of the year. I haven't even attempted to get caught up, but I
    was pointed to this note by #407. Long distance romances seem
    to be my fate.
    
    The first woman I ever had serious feelings for (other than my
    kindergarten crush) came from Iowa, and I met her when I was
    Salzburg, Austria for a month back when I was 15. Arlene managed
    the almost impossible feat of being even more shy than I was,
    and when we parted after the month, we never kept in contact.
    
    My second great love came in my senior year of high school. She
    was from a different town, and our first date was her senior prom.
    The next fall, I commuted to Boston for school (Northeastern),
    while she went out to UMass-Amherst. While now I consider that
    distance a walk in the park, at the time it seemed like the other
    side of the world. Things only went a few more months before she
    found someone else there at school.
    
    About ten years ago, I started getting involved with a crowd of
    people in Minneapolis (why and how would take too long to explain,
    and it's irrelevant here), and started making lots of trips there,
    usually about 3-4 per year. My friendships with some of the women
    there blossomed into something serious. One of them and I have
    been an "item" for the last seven years.
    
    It's rough. Actually, it's more like hell at times. I've been
    wanting to move to Minneapolis almost since I started visiting
    there, but for one reason or another, I haven't managed it. For a
    long time, Karen's and my relationship has been as satisfying as
    can be expected under the circumstances, but the strain has been
    telling the past couple of years. It's interesting to see a pre-
    vious reply point out something that I've observed about this
    relationship. At the beginning, everything was fast and furious,
    the phone bills were huge. As time wore on, things slowly faded.
    Where we used to talk at least one a week, now it's more like once
    a month, if that. We've talked not a few times about calling it
    quits because it doesn't look like we're going anywhere. Since this
    past spring, it seems to be over for all practical purposes. The
    only thing left is to "officially" acknowledge it.
    
    But it seems I never learn. Even as my relationship with Karen is
    in its final death throes, I'm finding myself getting involved
    with another woman over a large distance, an even larger distance
    at that. At least with Minneapolis, I could drive there for a
    weekend. Will this one work? Maybe yes, maybe no. I'll never find
    out unless I try. So far, it seems to be going fine.
    
    As hard as they are, I still won't pass by a possible relationship
    just because it's long distance. You never know --- that long
    distance lover may just be the Right Person.
    
    --- jerry

    re:.28
    
    It's only a game *if you LET it* be a game.
    
    Certainly, you have no control over what the other person says or
    does. If the other person wants to play it as a fantasy, then you
    have to either accept it, or quit. No doubt there are some people
    who think of a long distance romance as just a variation of phone
    sex. Well, there's really nothing you can do about that.
    
    My current long-distance relationship started out as a simple
    exchange of friendly discussion, with a little casual flirting.
    When I started to realize that things looked like they might be
    getting serious, I asked her straight out what she was feeling
    about what was going on with us, whether where we were going was
    where we wanted to be. I had had a coupl eof bad experiences
    before with non-communication and deliberate mis-communication,
    and I didn't want that to happen again. Talking it out helped a
    great deal, and paved the way for a much stronger relationship.

    The worst thing you can do in a relationship --- long distance
    *or* short --- is to assume that the other person's thoughts and
    feelings about your relationship is the same as yours.
    
    You apparently got burned one time. I'm sorry that happened,
    but you should remember that that can happen in a short-distance
    relationship just as easily. I certainly don't advocate long-
    distance romances, but I don't feel that one should necessarily
    avoid them at all costs, either.
    
    --- jerry

This is a long-distance relationship story with a happy ending. 8^)

In January, I met a man who lived in Colorado while I was living in
Massachusetts. We fell in love, to put it simply, and realized that the
distance between us was a frustrating barrier.  We sent Mail, both VAX and
Postal Service, and we had some lovely phone bills.  We wanted to be together,
so we decided to do something about the distance. 

I decided to move to Colorado. At first it seemed I didn't have a chance at
getting a job at CXO. Then, a manager made a position available for me.  By
July, I was a Coloradian, with a new job at DEC. 

It's so nice to be living down the street from my fiance instead of 2,000 miles
away.  We are so happy to be together and we really believe that there were
strong forces that made our relationship possible. The chances of everything
working out smoothly were slim, but we made it! 

Though it's certainly not the rule, long distances romances *can* succeed,
but it's up to the two people involved to make it work.  It depends a lot
on attitudes and expectations, and (my favorite subject) trust and respect.

I'm involved in a long distance relationship right now and I'm not about to
quit just because the odds are against it working out.  This is not a game
to me.  There are real feelings involved.  Plans are being made, dreams are
coming true.  He wants to make this work and so do I!
    
But if he sincerely decided it wouldn't work, I'd have to let him go.  I
can't *make* him love me or hang in there.  And vice-versa.  A relationship
is a relationship whether it's close to home or miles away.  It's what people
do with it that makes it count.
    
Regarding the here and now, my soulmate and I are beating the odds.

***Carol***

    I have recently married a man whith whom I have had a long dist.
    romance for 13 years.  After we announced our plans, people would
    ask me "Are you going to move down there, or is he going to move
    up here?" to which I would answer flatly "NO".  Why should we go
    and change around a situation that has worked out so well for so
    many years?  We live three hours apart, but see each other nearly
    every weekend and have for all of the 13 years.
    
    To be honest, I think the reason that we didn't marry long ago is
    because we both expected the miles that separate us to pose a problem.
    It took us 13 years to figure out that just wasn't so.  We have
    never been "into" forceing each other to do anything we didn't want
    to do (just by our nature).  Even when we started talking about
    tieing the knot, we decided that if we decided not to get married
    it meant just that.  It didn't mean we'd break up.  That was a great
    way to take all pressure off the decision.  That's how I know it
    was the right one.
    
    It can work!
    
    Mairon

    
    Is that 3 hours driving, flying, or walking?

    
    RE:  .34  by RANCHO::HOLT
    
    Three hours driving - done mostly by him.  I hate to drive and he
    tells me that he doesn't mind.  At first when he said that, I didn't
    believe him.  I figured the drive would get mighty old after a while,
    but he still does it nearly every week end without complaint.
    During his "busy season", which is Sept and Oct, I do drive down
    nearly half the time, but I hate it. 
    
    Marion

    My long distance relationship didn't start out that way.  Carl and
    I met over 4 years ago at work (not DEC) in N.Y.  We fell in love
    and dated for 2 years.  Things were not going very smoothly and
    I was realizing that I needed time and space.  I moved to N.H.
    in Sept. 86, Carl remained in N.Y.  
    
    We kept in touch but I kept reminding him that I only wanted to
    be friends (even though I knew I hadn't stopped loving him).
    I did a lot of things, a lot of growing and experiencing things
    I had never been exposed to.  
    
    Carl asked me to marry him this past April and I was never so happy
    to accept anything in my life.  The distance between us gave us
    time to grow and figure out what was really important in our lives.
    I am not saying that this is true for everyone, but if the love
    is real, then yes, it can work!!!!
    
    We see each other twice a month (he drives up one weekend and I
    drive down the other).  Friday's are wonderful when I know I will
    see him and Sunday's are not depressing at all because the week
    ahead only means that I have time to myself to do things for myself
    and so does he.
    
    We are getting married next July.  I will be moving back to N.Y.
    but we'll hopefully only live there for a year or two.
    
    
    This is true for Carl and I:
    
    	If you love something, set if free.
    	If it comes back to you, it is yours.
    	If it doesn't, it never was!
    
    Denise
    
    

       
       
       	Or if it doesn't then hunt it down and kill it.. :-) (only
       JOKING!)
       
       	Question Denise, now that you're used to your weekends by
       yourself, how hard do you anticipate it to adjust to married
       life? (coming home to the same person all the time rather than 
       yourself)  Just curious how you and others would handle it seeing
       as how today, many people "need" thier space. Including me.
       
       							mike

    RE .37         
    
    Good question Mike.  I have given it a lot of thought.  I have had
    total freedom for two years now.  Part of the reason why I felt
    I wasn't ready for marriage was that need for total freedom.  I
    am not saying it's easy to give up some of my time to myself, but
    what makes it easier is knowing that my fiancee is a lot like me
    and needs some space of his own too.  We both have very busy lives
    with work and other activities, so we understand each others need
    to have some time for ourselves (by ourselves).  
    
    I never thought I would be saying this but, when you are really
    in love with someone, it isn't as big a sacrifice as you think.
    You both have to be willing to let the other person breathe.  If
    you can't breathe, you will suffocate!
    
    Just some of my thoughts,
    
    Denise
                                          

Denise, in your case, the separation, time, and distance, allowed
something to shift in one or both of you so that now you'll get
along well when back together.

In my case this has never worked.  Whenever I've separated from
someone with whom things weren't working, yes, I've often felt
a renewed interest for the person.  However, whenever we act
on that renewed interest and get back together, the same problems
come up again.

In my experience, I can't trust renewed interest as a sign of
improvement.  The only true improvement is that which we can create
somehow while staying together.  If we can create improvement
WITHOUT leaving each other in a separation, then we've got something.

/Eric

    RE: .39
       
    
    Eric, I understand and agree with you.  But, in my case
    it's not "renewed interest" that put it all back 
    together.  Neither of us ever lost interest.  I always
    knew in the back of my mind that I loved him and really
    didn't want to lose him.  I really took a chance by moving
    away.  I could have lost him forever.  That time and 
    space was a challenge for us both and fortunately it 
    worked for us instead of against us.  It gave us a 
    chance to see what is really important...namely,
    the other person!  We are much more sensitive of each
    others feelings.  I am not saying that all of the old
    problems are gone.  I'd be lying if I said we have no 
    problems.  I am saying that because of the "growth" 
    period we've had, we can both deal with them on a much 
    more mature level. 
    
    I realize how fortunate I am and am very grateful for 
    that!!
    
    Denise
                      

       
       	Sounds like you took a hell of a chance Denise.. I'm glad
       it has paid off for you.. And I agree with you. Myself,
       I NEED my time by myself but when I become involved with someone
       I really like and end up loving, I tend to like to spend time
       with them and not need "all that time" by myself.. Just when
       things get hectic or are going fast..  I hope I can adjust as
       well as you are hoping too when the time comes for me.
       			
       							mike

I realize that this topic has been quiet for a while, but it's so near
and dear to my heart that I couldn't resist replying.

I met Neal ten months ago (March), and knew two things off the bat -  
that we would have a significant long-term relationship together, and 
that he would be going to Medical School in Albany in the fall (I live 
in Boston).  Did the fact that he would be moving make me think twice?
Absolutely not!!!  This was not the kind of opportunity to pass up!!

We had five months together in Boston before he left.  A couple of months
before he left, reality (and panic) struck.  The worst part was that he
was starting his first year, and neither of us knew what to expect.
Albany is only 2 1/2 - 3 hours from Boston, which we knew was manageable.
The big question was how much time Medical School would take up for him 
(as you can imagine, it's alot).

Our greatest fear was that the relationship would stagnate and we would
grow apart.  I'm happy to say that the exact opposite has happened, and
we're growing closer and closer together :-).  The notes I've read about 
LDR's have all mentioned them being basically tough, and more often hellish.  
I'll second that!  I'm not a person who needs tons of time to herself, in
fact, spending alot of time with my SO is very important to me.  Before
meeting Neal I would have loudly asserted that long distance relationships
were not for me!  But as hard as this one is, it's worth it!!!!

We talk every night, which is a little expensive, but in my eyes necessary 
to the relationship (always after 11 pm - that helps alot).  Keeping in 
touch with each other's daily life is incredibly important - it really 
helps keep us close.  We never have to become re-acquainted since we're 
each other's chief confidants.

I go out to see him most week-ends I can, when he doesn't have impending 
exams (works out to every other week-end or more on an average).  Even 
then it's frustrating, as he has to study all day Saturday and Sunday.  
I'm getting to know Albany awfully well, run all my week-end errands there, 
and usually get more done than I do at home.  Sometimes he gets to comes 
home, but overall the strain of Medical School makes things an order of 
magnitude tougher.  Still - our visits are wonderful.

What I'm trying to say, as many of the replies do, is that IT CAN WORK!!  
I realize that five months is not a huge amount of time, but our relationship
has actually gotten better as time has gone on.  If you really love, trust, 
and communicate with your SO, there's no reason why distance has to put an 
end to a romance.  It certainly is a huge strain, but like anything difficult, 
you're closer and have a much stronger relationship if you make it through.

I can't believe that I have 3 1/2 more years until he's done with med school.
I have no idea how things will go, but my advice to anyone considering a
long distance relationship is that if you're really serious about the 
other person, or think that you may become so, go for it!  It is not easy,
and to me it doesn't make sense to put yourself through it if there isn't
a time in sight when you can be together (the proverbial light at the end
of the tunnel - I'm living for this summer when we'll both be in Boston).  
Sometimes it's so hard that I wonder why I'm putting myself through it,
but every time that I'm with him, or talking with him, I know that I don't 
want anything else.  :-}

If your about to embark on a long distance relationship - take heart.  As
the other replies have already said - things could end wonderfully.  :-)

- Sarah

    
    

The following note has been contributed by a member of our community who
wishes to remain anonymous.  If you wish to contact the author by mail, please
send your message to QUARK::HR_MODERATOR, specifying the relevant note number.

				





    I'm having problems dealing with a long distance relationship.  If
    there's  anyone out there that can give some helpful hints on how to
    cope better, I'd appreciate your input.

    My boyfriend is in the Service, in November he got stationed down south 
    for a couple years.  We have been seeing each other a little over a
    year now  but became have become more serious over the last 6 months. 
    By the time he left, we knew that we cared about each other enough to
    continue the relationship and there had been slight talk of marriage in
    the future.  I felt confident enough when he left to be able to hold
    out until we were both ready for  marriage or at least ready for me to
    join him.  I knew we both still needed more  time to be sure that was
    what we wanted.  We call each other a couple times a  week (major phone
    bills!!!!)  and I visited him a Christmas time.  My problem is  keeping
    that confidence.  We both agreed not to see anyone else and I don't
    have  a problem with that, its being able to stop all the crazy
    thoughts that go  though my head.  I wonder if I'm wasting my time,
    because there's no definite plans for the future.  Sometimes I get
    frustrated because I don't even know the next time we'll be able to see
    each other although we've made tentative  plans for the end of Feb. but
    between our schedules we don't know if we'll  actually happen.  I don't
    know, there's all kinds of barriers.

    Enough of the sob story, I'm sure there's people going through much
    worse situations but if anyone has any suggestions, please help me out. 
    I think I'm causing myself unnecessary worry and confusion but
    sometimes this situation   gets to me.  

    Thanks

	 GOSH!!!!!  I sure now THIS problem like the back of my hand!
	 I've been through three serious long distance relationships
	 that have failed miserably because one or the
	 other of us gave up because the "craziness" was just too
	 much.  I DON'T want to discourage you because long-distance
	 relationships can perhaps be the strongest kind of
	 relationship, but they are D*MN HARD!

	 You worry about how the other person is doing when you don't
	 here from the in awhile, you get upset over the fact that you
	 don't know when you will get to see each other again, you
	 pocketbook suffers tremendously (i'm still in severe debt)
	 cuz of plane tickets and phone calls, you work yourself up
	 into a migraine cuz there is no definate end in sight to the
	 separation... These are all feelings I had when I was going
	 through the same thing...

	 After the last relationship I re-evaluated the whole thing
	 and decided that to make it work again I would have to take one day
	 at a time, enjoy the time together but NOT let the time apart
	 upset me, look forward to the little things (like cards and
	 letters and small presents) because those are the BIG things
	 in relationships like this, understand that the man in my
	 life would be going through the same things I would.

	 ABOVE ALL------TALK!  If you feel like crying to him, DO
         IT... let him know you're feeling crazy and unsure and all
         that...tell him the little things mean a lot and understand
         that he needs the little things too.  The ability for the two
	 of you to communicate has to be so much stronger than a
	 normal relationship because THAT IS ALL YOU HAVE!!!! Develop
	 the lines of communication...and it doesn't have to be
	 expensive... a stamp is only $.25.  Also, don't let your
	 frustration frustrate you even more...don't let the crazy
	 feeling make you more crazy....let it go...let it happen!!!
	 Realize that it is going to be a part of your relationship
	 and that will make you stronger...talk about it...

	 Also, the worst thing you can do is revolve your life around
	 him...get out with friends, do things, be what you want to
	 be.  I know that I spent too many nights sitting at home
	 waiting for that phone to ring...it only makes matters harder
	 to bear...
	 
	 -----

	 Gosh...I make it seem like it is soooooo hard to get through
	 a long distance relationship, but I'm not going to lie to
	 you... IT IS!!!!  But I think you already understand that.

	 I'd also like to state that I've been through one more long
	 distance relationship (after the first three) that was a
	 resounding success... (we parted friends after finally being
	 together...and are still best friends today).  You are going
	 through something VERY TOUGH....but if you take it for what
	 it is, and live it day by day without frustrating yourself
	 over the future, you'll make it so much easier, as well as
	 make you so much happier...

	 I bid you good luck...its a hard road, make no mistake about
	 that, but if you make it through, your relationship will be
	 so much stronger for it...

	 kath

	 (PS:  call me funny, but right now I'm contemplating another
	 long-distance and I kinda rather like the idea...its very
	 tough, but the close feeling you get when you know you've
	 made it through makes me know its worth it...)

    hi...
    don't know if i can help or not... but, we'll give it a try.

    getting involved in a LDR makes certain (i think, unusual) demands
    on you...on both of you.  there is the obvious separation, and all
    the stress it brings; but there is the (not so obvious) requirement
    that you understand some things about yourself that you might not
    be normally aware of.
    
    you sound young (from your letter) and that might work against you.
    i don't mean to make overly broad generalizations here, but youth,
    with all its blessings, also brings a certain amount of impatience
    and lack of self-knowledge.  i believe that for a LDR to be successful,
    both parties must KNOW what they want from the relationship...and
    be honest with themselves and each other with that knowledge.  young
    people frequently don't have the experience to KNOW this.  a LDR
    also requires a degree of openness that normal relationships frequently
    do not enjoy.  this has nothing to do with age or experience.  but
    it has a lot to do with KNOWING what you want and a willingness
    to express that knowledge to your partner and admit it to your self.

    kathy (re: -1) mentioned that you should continue to go out with
    your friends and not close yourself in.  i absolutely agree with
    that.  but, i would like to offer that your friends should include
    both sexes.  being able/willing to go out (say to dinner, or for
    drinks) with a friend of the opposite sex may stress your partner,
    so openness here is paramount.  as is honesty and trust.
    
    LDR's can work.  they can be fun.  they can be rewarding.  they
    can enhance your relationship.  
    
    but, they can alss be painful.  
    
    be honest with yourself first.  do your best to be a true friend
    to yourself.  
    
    tony

Hi.  If you've read .42, you know that I'm also going through this.  I
definitely understand what you mean about feeling confused.  The question
"Why am I doing this to myself?" goes through my mind anywhere from once
a week, to once an hour.  I love my SO, and it's really painful to not
have him around.  It's hard to be sure that you're doing the right thing
by maintaining a long distance relationship when sometimes all you see is 
that you're making yourself miserable.

One question that you have to ask yourself is whether your SO is worth the 
frustration you're putting yourself through.  It comes down to "I love him 
enough to wait for him, even if the waiting is really hard,"  or "he's a 
really nice person, but I want more from a relationship, and I'd rather find 
someone who can give me what I need."  I don't think that it's possible to 
make this decision and never have to re-examine it.  One of the things that 
makes LDR's so tough is that there's almost always some doubt.

On the up side, a long distance relationship can work!!!  You can really 
grow from the experience.  Not only will your relationship be stronger, but
you'll be a stronger person for having gone through it.  And if this person
is really so special, the relationship is worth some temporary frustration 
and unhappiness.  How does it feel when you're with him?  Could you see 
yourself dating someone else?  Would you want to?  Is he being supportive 
of you and sensitive to what you're going through?  This is probably alot 
tougher for you since he's in a totally new environment, while the only 
change in your life is that he isn't there.

Above all, realize that feeling frustrated and confused is 100% natural.
Alot of the confusion can be alleviated by talking with your SO.  It's only
fair that he know how you're feeling - you don't do him any favors by 
pretending that things are hunky-dory.  As to feeling frustrated, if you
figure out how to get around this one, please tell me!!!  I think that it
just comes with the territory.

Good luck with this!!  As I've also discovered, when people tell you that
it's tough, they aren't kidding!!!!


Sarah

PS - Feel free to send mail

   I want to thank you for your thoughtful replies.  I'm glad I decided
   to make the entry because your advice,opinions,ect really helped.
     
    This is the first LDR that I have been involved in and I'm glad
    to know that I'm not alone in my frustrations and confusion.  My
    boyfriend is very supportive and feels the same way.  I actually
    realized that we both felt the same way when I expressed my concerns
    to him (one of your many suggestions) and he came out with his.  It
    was almost a relief.  I quoted alot of what was said in here.  He
    doesn't know about notes file so I took the credit for some of the
    insightful thoughts (He'll never know).    
    
    Usually I'm a pretty optimistic person, with the combination of
    the replies, a little bit of optimism and a dash of faith, I know
    we're going to be able to make it.  Maybe making a statment like
    that is what made .45 believe that I was young.  I think its a combo
    of be some what young (23) and never having to go through this before,
    give me time, I may feel differently.
    
    I read somewhere, I believe in the LDR file that "Tough times don't 
    last...tough people do".  I loved it.  I believe at this time of
    my life, thats going to have to be my motto.!!
    
    Thanks again
    Sandie (unanonymously)
      

o.k. thanks, I couldn't resist replying to this subject ("long distance
romances")

I have a friend in a DEC plant over 1000 miles away from here.

Is it a romance ?  I guess it's getting closer to that, but I can't
say for sure.

I can only say I feel much for her, and what keeps me from feeling more
is my vulnerability.

We met when she wrote something in a notes file and I sent her mail
commenting on it.

We started sending mail back and forth, then started missing each other
even though we've never met.

Then we each sent our pictures, and we both were attracted to each
other.

I hope to meet her one day.  We've toyed with the idea of just picking
a city and both flying there to meet.

L, I hope you're listening !

love,  Eric

	 ahhhhhh...the life and times of network romances!  I think we
	 should write a novel! :-)

	 
    

It's probably cheaper and simpler if one or you flies to the other and you
split the cost.  One round trip twice the distance is cheaper then two round
trips half the distance and you will also have a place to stay.

Jim.

I moved replies .48 and .49 from another note (47), to which I had mistakenly
moved .48 earlier.  And I also removed from note 47 some replies which seemed
to be commenting on my confusion.  My apologies to anyone who was
inconvenienced or confused (more than I was, that is!)

					Steve

    Re: .50
    
    Steve, your explanation is.....................er.............um,
    a bit confusing.  :-)
    
    I'll ask for a clarification tomorrow night at the party. (Sometime
    between my cigarette breaks.)   
    
      Alan

    
    RE: .48
    
    Eric,
    
    I'm listening..........................
    
    In reading some of the replies to your note, I think the best is
    to fly to where one of us lives, but the plans are in the making
    right?
    
    As far as "long-distance romance in the making"........lets let
    fate decide what the future holds.  Theres always many, many
    possibilities.
    
    
    Boston - here I come!
    
    "L"
    

    
    RE: .49
    
    I'm fairly new to the DEC world........tell me, do network romances
    happen often?
    
    Your suggestion on writing a novel sounds interesting and I have
    heard of others meeting this way to which have been referred to
    as "DECmates".  I guess when you think about it, we seem to spend
    more time at our place of occupation than we do at home.
    
    

	 RE: .54
	     
>tell me, do network romances happen often?

	 Words on a terminal are very seductive.  Thru fantasies you
	 can imagine any sort of emotion behind someone's words.  Yes,
	 network romances happen quite often.  The problem is that
	 many people don't realize that fantasy and reality rarely are
	 ever the same...

	 attraction over the net rarely guarentees attraction in
	 person.
	 


	 kath    

    	Sometimes the network generates romances in unexpected ways...
    
    	My SO and I met over the net (and later we exchanged mail from 
    	a great distance for a period of about a year, off and on, mostly 
    	due to his interest in moving here for career reasons.)
    
    	There was no romance between us (only friendship) until he actually
	moved here.  Once we met and started dating, the year we had
    	known each other as casual friends through notes and mail really 
    	made it *nice* for us (as a great friendship base to go with the
    	romantic part of the relationship.)

    	Now, we've been seeing each other for almost a year.  The only
    	part that gets confusing is when his family asks when we "met."
    	(Well, we "met" in Notes almost three years ago, we "met" through
    	mail two years ago, and we "met" in person one year ago.)

    	The response he usually gets from that is - "Huh??"  :-)
    
    	I don't even *try* to explain it to my family.  :-)

    there was a phenomenon a friend of mine told me about called
    "compusex".  It was two people, meeting each other through compuserve
    or some other type of computer interchange, often for the sole purpose
    of writing interactive of back-and-forth-electronic mail that was
    sexually stimulating.  Seldom did these people meet, though, since
    they were often very remote from one another.  I knew of at least
    3 computers in the Boston area (Lola was the name of one of them)
    which encouraged this.  So yes, words on a terminal can be seductive.
    
    Chances are, a lot of people here at DEC meet friends around the
    country via computer.  Some of them have been said to fall in love
    before they even met......
    
    But I think a long distance relationship via computer when you've
    never met is very different from meeting, falling in love, then
    moving apart....
    
    -Jody
    

    re:.54
    
    Long distance romances certainly aren't very common, but I don't
    think they're all that rare, either. One of the most exhilirating
    things about a network romance is that one gets to know the inner
    person without prejudices about physical appearance.
    
    While this sort of thing has become more prevalent due to computer
    networking, I hasten to point out that it happened even in the days
    of low-tech. Back in the mid-1800's, the well-known poets Robert
    Browing and Elizabeth Barrett fell in love via mail before they
    ever met physically.
    
    --- jerry

RE: .57

>    ...or some other type of computer interchange, often for the sole purpose
>    of writing interactive of back-and-forth-electronic mail that was
>    sexually stimulating...

>    ...So yes, words on a terminal can be seductive.



	 Words do not have to be sexually stimulating for them to be
	 seductive.   Innocent, non-sexually stimulating exchanges
	 thru mail can in and of themselves be very seductive.

	     

    re: .59
    
>        Innocent, non-sexually stimulating exchanges
>	 thru mail can in and of themselves be very seductive.
    
    A very accurate observation, Kathy.

    
    uh oh !   L, you're braver than I thought, revealing yourself in here
    as the one about whom I was referring.
    
    But yes, to answer your question, of course plans are in the making,
    and we're looking forward to meeting in Boston and going to MV in June.
    
    I'm scared, but looking forward to it at the same time.  It's even
    more scary now, since everyone can read these notes here.  But if
    I'm being honest about my feelings and intentions, what's to hide ?
    
    /Eric                                            

      Meeting over the net seems a very acceptable way for people to get
      to know each other. Certainly in the context Jody was refering to
      it's the ultimate safe sex.

      My problem is that I find myself relating to people more over the
      net than in person. It's much easier to reveal yourself to someone
      when you don't have to look at them. And there's a safety in not
      having your appearance dictate who you are. It's ultimately
      sterile though and if you never follow up with a meeting something
      is missing.

      RE: the Brownings. Emily Dickinson conducted almost all her
      relationships through letters. She secluded herself and died a
      virgin never having had a real life up close love. There's a
      sadness in that. I sometimes worry that I'm investing myself in
      electronic relationships to avoid real life in the same way. liesl

    
    	Good point Liesl!  It is indeed very safe to have a network
    	relationship.  You can transfer all of your desires to a
    	fantasy lover when a "flesh and blood" lover is too scary.
    
    	When I was separated, my primary social life was people
    	I met through notes.  Yes, many were men ;^) (you know who
    	you are!)  I just about fell in love a bunch of times.
    
    	I learned alot about myself this way, and kept from making
    	some mistakes because I couldn't physically act on the
    	impulses I had.
    
    	I also learned about heartache and intense longing for 
    	someone who couldn't be there for me.  He felt the same
    	and it had to end.  Hopefully, we will always be friends.
    
    	Now I know that I am ready for a "real" person.  I'm still
    	not ready for the ultimate committed relationship, but I'm
    	not living in a fantasy world anymore.  Network Romance
    	or network "lust" as I now call it, can thrill and excite,
    	but is never as satifying as having a real person to hold
    	and touch.
    	
    	
			Sherry

oh, geez,,,,,I don't know Sherry,  I kinda like them both...;^)

Mikki

    
    
    Sorry Eric, we've been found out..........
    
    To those in reply:
    
      One thing I can say safely (and it has nothing to do with sex) is
      that it seems as though you can get to know someone from the inside
      out through "networking" messages.  After that, it doesn't matter
      what they look like, as long as they've got what it takes inside.
      Of course, in some respects we all react upon our sight, but my
      cohort and I have sent pictures to each other and we seem to find
      each other attractive - I honestly don't think it would really
      matter at this point though.
    
      Regarding "safe sex" via networking - this could prove to be 
      interesting (ha, ha).  Boy has this conference taken a turn.
    
      "L"
    

    Having noticed that I started this topic some 2+ years ago...
    
    The cynic in me says that you only THINK you are getting to know
    the "inner person" over the network, but you're only seeing
    a part of the whole person.  What you are typically not prepared for
    is that actually being WITH said person may shatter all of your
    deeply cherished beliefs about your mutual compatibility.  Sometimes
    there's just "no chemistry", sometimes the reality of being together
    in person brings to the forefront the fears that you were able to
    safely pretend didn't exist.  Sometimes you'll find you fell in love
    with someone completely different than the person you met.
    
    And sometimes it will work the way you want it to.  But don't bet on
    it.
    
    Somewhere around .25 I wrote that I would never do it (have a
    long-distance romance) again.  And I didn't - until the next time,
    that is.  I have had a few since then.  And I won't do it again
    (until the next time :-))
    
    Seriously, I've found I need more from a relationship than what
    a long-distance romance can offer.  And it keeps my phone bills
    down too.
    
    I no longer tell people not to go ahead with an LDR they are planning,
    as all of the predictions of disaster just slide right off with a
    "Oh, it's DIFFERENT for us!"  I know, I've been there.  I just say
    "enjoy it but try not to take it too seriously."  You have to learn
    this lesson for yourself.
    
    One of the advantages is that, for some people, it shows them that they
    really do have the capacity for love.  But if it doesn't work out, and
    it usually doesn't, the sense of failure can be crushing.
    
    A good book to read, not just for long-distance romancers but for
    anyone who is looking for love, is "A Fine Romance" by Dr. Judith
    Sills.  I don't agree with everything she says, but one of her basic
    tenets shines like a beacon.  And it's what I've chosen for the
    title of this note.
    
    				Steve

    
    RE: .66
    
    Steve,
    
    You seem to be rather against long distance romances.  I guess I
    feel that anything is worth a try (within reason).  There's always
    at least a friendship that come out of long distance "networking".
    
    -Lynn
    

Re: .67

No, Lynn, I am not against network romances.  In fact I am for them.  They
can make you feel wonderful, and you get to meet some really special people.
I just wanted to suggest that a lot of the things we tell ourselves about
LDRs aren't really true.  But also that it doesn't matter.

I have no regrets whatsoever about the LDRs I've had.  The friendships that
can come out of them can be wonderful.

Relax and enjoy yourself.

		Steve

	Following what Liesl suggested about getting too acclimated to an
	electronic means of communication, I've found that in my current 
	relationship with a non-DECcie, I've had some adjustments to make 
	regarding my communicado mindset.  More than once I've had just a 
	millisecond of shock when I realize I can't send him mail to tell
	him something or invite him someplace, that our communication is
	entirely based on <drumroll> REALITY.  It's tough getting used to
    	but I definitely prefer it.  
    
	No matter how well you think you know someone long-distance and/or 
	electronically, there's a world of difference between words on a 
	screen and sitting face to face with someone, whether that someone 
	is a romantic interest or not.

							Carla

"RE: the Brownings. Emily Dickinson conducted almost all her relationships
through letters. She secluded herself and died a virgin never having had a real
life up close love. There's a sadness in that. I sometimes worry that I'm
investing myself in electronic relationships to avoid real life in the same way.
liesl"

liesl, I could *never* imagine vivacious you being anything like the above!
:-)
      
Jim.

    re: mailing to non-DECcie friends
    
    I do that pretty often.  It's the friends who aren't techno-weenies
    I can't get through to.  But I get mail from all over....MIT, Rutgers,
    WPI, Berkeley, PR1ME, Apple, NASA, everywhere.  The GATEWAYS notesfile
    is great for finding pathways to just about anywhere you want to
    go.  Just keep the traffic down a bit and use NetMail% and you're
    all set to talk to the world.
    
    -Jody

    So, he gathered up his courage, scheduled his vacation, bought the
    ticket and made the plunge.  He WENT to visit his Net Other.  In
    Denver, while waiting for the second leg of the jaunt, he got involved
    in a conversation with the pilot of that filight and the cabin
    crewchief.  They asked what the nature of the business was at his
    destination.  He told them that he was going on a blind date.  They
    asked how that had happened.  He told them about Vaxmail and Vaxphone.
    As he was departing the flight at the destination, the cabin crew
    chief handed him a gift wrapped bottle of Champagne.

    re:.72
    
    	� Gee, does this stuff really happen? �
    
    God, I hope so. That story is too good to be untrue.
    
    --- jerry

    Given the choice between a series of $150 phone bills and VaxPhone
    the choice is easy to make.  Thankfully, DEC hasn't figured out
    a way to bill anybody for the net traffic.  When they do...Noters
    and remote relationships will suffer.  Meanwhile...enjoy!

Re: .75

And spoken hugs and kisses are no substitute for those given "in person".

You can feel wonderful while on the phone to your romantic partner, but
when you hang up, what have you got?

Still, there are benefits in long-distance romances, just as there are
hazards.  
			Steve

    re: .77
    
    
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!  I LOVE it!!!!!!

    
    RE: .76
    
    > And spoken hugs and kisses are no substitute for those given "in
    person".
    
    You can make those "hugs and kisses" a reality-in person if your
    willing to go the distance.
    
    It all depends on the importance of the matter to you.
    
    I know when I hang up the phone from an LDR - I have a good feeling
    and a far-away friend.
    
    -Lynn
    

    
    
     RE: .80
    
     > Ah yes, so true.
    
       So Mike.........lets hear some input  :^)
    
       -Lynn
    

    
    RE: .82
    
     I like the way you put that - you seem to have an open mind to LDR's.
    
     Something may come out of the situation and then again maybe not, but
     at least if you try you'll never be asking yourself questions as to
     what could've happened.
    
     As I stated before, it all depends on the importance of the matter.
    
     Thanks for the reply.
    
     -Lynn
    

    
    Hello Lynn and Mike and everyone else.
    
    Yes, I'm still hear, all ears as it were.
    
    I'm a firm believer in finding out.
    
    So that's what Lynn and I are doing.  Within a few weeks (yikes!) we'll
    meet each other and see what happens.
    
    Yup, it's scary.  But I want to do it.  I only know from talking with
    Lynn that I feel good about her and about meeting her.
    
    Whatever happens, we sure won't know by merely continuing to write mail
    and talk on the phone.
    
    So, here I come !
    
    /Eric

    It's taken me awhile, but I'll add my $0.02 into this.
    
    I'm now in my 4th LDR.  After each one, I say "never again".  What
    this really means is that I won't do it again - until next time.
    I've had mixed results from them.  The first one - we were in school,
    and didn't really have the resources to make it work.  It eventually
    died.  What amazes me about that one now is that it *did* last 2
    years.  The second one actually worked.  I graduated from college
    before my SO did, so we were forced into an LDR for a time.  We
    made it work, he came to live where I did, and we stayed together
    for another 3 years, then broke up for totally unrelated reasons.
    The 3rd seems to be a standard "network romance", it was nice, then
    I found someone I liked locally, and the LDR was gone.  In some
    respects, though, this one still worked.  We're still good friends.
    Now I'm into the fourth.  The only reason I'm willing to do this
    is because he seems to have most of the things I'm looking for in
    an SO, and there are ways to get rid of the LD part, when it can
    be arranged and we're sure enough about it to seriously work on
    a relocation for one of us. 
    
    Elizabeth

    re .86 
    How unique Notes are. You need only to make a pointer to a two year old
    note. 
    
    That's sad to read, the ending of a 2 1/2 year relationship. I
    certainly hope you don't regret moving to CO, you are staying aren't
    you? 
    
    I guess it's time to try CO_SINGLES...
    
    Gail

    
>>    I guess it's time to try CO_SINGLES...


	 YES! YES!!  I wish someone would!

	 /kath_bored_COLO_SINGLES_moderator

    
    Well, I noticed this note a long time ago, and I thought I might
    enter in my own experience.
    
    I'm a summer temp, working at Digital 4 summers straight now, trying
    to make money for college, to  which I will be returning in the fall.  
    My girlfriend of 10 months was accepted into a program abroad.  
    For the entire year.  In Japan.  We both met at school in Ohio.
                                             
    She lives in Newport, R.I. and I outside of Boston.  We spent much
    time together at school and during the summer when we weren't working.
    Of course, we wished we lived closer to each other, but the drive
    and phone bills could be a lot worse.
    
    I have no intention of ending the relationship because of distance.
    I have never felt more happy, fulfilled and complete when I am with
    her.  I never thought love could be so good.  She'll be in Tokyo
    for 11 months, after that she'll come back to New England.  I don't
    have any delusions that the relationship with thrive, but it certainly
    can't die unless we don't try to make it work.  I have very high
    hopes for us.  I might even visit her!
    
    This is only a temporary separation, we plan to be closer to each
    other next summer.  I can only say the above speaking for myself.
    I believe I and she have the strength to make it.  Many couples in
    our situation might not.  All the advice I can say is: Look into
    yourself and perceive the situation.  You must have confidence,
    communication, and strength besides the love.  I hope this note
    gives strength to others embarking on a LDR.
    
    /Greg Aharonian 

    
    It's been 11 months to the day since I wrote .89 and now I can give
    you all an update which can be encouraging to others going
    through a long-distance relationship.
    
    Rachel and I are still together and she is now back from Japan.
    The relationship survived the distance through _lots_ of communication,
    both mail and telephone.  There were some rough times, especially
    the couple of months after she left the states.  Luckly, she went
    through crises when I was strong enough to help her & encourage her,
    and vice versa.  Having made it through the long distance (almost
    11 months), we are both better people for it, being able to survive 
    distance, isolation, and loneliness.  We both have matured, too.  
    
    She and I are still happy together, happy that the relationship
    lasted because it is a great thing, and that we overcame distance
    to be together.  I plan to spend much time together this summer,
    including tomorrow (the 4th).
    
    I don't know if this helps anyone, but at least it is a happy ending!
    
    /Greg Aharonian