Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    I had a group of kids get into my car on Halloween night and slash
    the seats and trash the interior. I had never met these kids (6
    boys 2 girls, 3 of them did the damage) or their families. They
    were I thought, all 15-16 yrs old.  Icaught them and turn them over
    to the local P.D.. They had been very busy until they got to my
    place.  I've since sat and talked with the parents and one of the
    boys who was in the car has just turned 13. He can't remember much
    of that night because he had a couple of beers...........
    
    19 million alcoholics and it's still legal. It's the largest single
    cause of absenteeism, family problems, etc.  The only reason that
    it remains legal is because alcohol is a major source of revenue
    for the state and federal government.....Everything has a price
    and so far it isn't high enough.
    
    Ken

    
    re: .1
    
    I don't think this is the proper forum for a debate on the wisom
    of legalized alcohol.  I would direct you to 2B::SOAPBOX (if it
    ever comes back up), where several discussions of this sort have
    taken place.  I'm sure you will find some interesting arguments
    on both sides of the issue.  If SOAPBOX has a virtue, it is that
    it is populated with people completely unafraid to speak their minds.
    
    It is without doubt that alocohol abuse has an impact on all sorts
    of relationships, be they with friends, family members, or lovers.
    Such things should be discussed here.
    
    In the case you cite, I would wonder about the relationships between
    the parents and the children involved.
    
    DFW                                   

    This country has already tried to ban alcohol consumption.  All
    it accomplished was to help organized crime get its act thoroughly
    together.  I drink alcohol in modest quantities every day and I
    haven't been drunk in years.
    
    Craig

    re: .3
    
    to be an alcoholic does not necesarily mean being a drunk!
    
    al
    

    
      Please don't point this conversation to SOAPBOX.
    
    
      I saw statistics that no-one will show you.
    
      More people die from Alchohol and cigarettes than from all illegal
    drugs combined.
    
      It's the truth folks, so why is alchohol legal? Why are drugs
    illegal? 
    
      For the same reason cars don't get 70-90 mpg. Capitalism.
    
    Peter

    
    
    	Re .2 - How can a note file be "populated with people that...."???
    Here we go with the old "well *we* hang out *here* and *they* hang
    out *there* and you better not talk about what *we* dont want to
    hear here, cuz this is *our* space. What a bunch of Bullcrap! (Sorry...
    I just cant stand the slightest hint of "territorialism". Now I'll
    probably get told "territorial?? Whose territorial?"...Right!)
    
    	Its really just a bunch of buttons that you push anyway...
    
    
    	Re .5 - Right on Pete! I thought *everybody* knew that the addicts
    will be addicted to the substances they are *allowed* to be addicted
    to - Alcohol, Nicotine and Caffein.
    
    
    	Joe
    

    I apologize to those offended for being a part of a "non-topical"
    note......but..................,
    
    There seems to be very little that takes place here anymore. The
    great purge of May '86 has taken the wind out of many sails. I hope
    that some of the topics will generate some of the noters to re-
    kindle some of the fire the was present here not long ago. 
    
    I see alcohol as being a springboard for many youngsters getting
    their feet wet in the world of H_R, along with drugs.  Kids are
    under a great deal of peer pressure today, maybe more than ever
    before. They worry that if they haven't had sex, then they will
    be cut from the ranks of the privileged, or be made fun of. The
    easiest way to break fears is to relax, and we all know an easy
    way to do so is with booze and friends.  As adults, many of us still
    use these substances to relax prior to engaging the opposite sex.
    
    I believe that this conference is an excellent opportunity to express
    beliefs about how many people are introduced to the sexual side
    of H_R.  If I'm not mistaken, I remember some comments as to being
    intoxicated in the old SEXCETERA file "THE FIRST TIME".
    
    Ken

< Note 148.5 by ARGUS::COOK "Dreadful Mourning" >

	You're right Pete. And there aren't to many more
    important things to be right about!	
	
	Marketing specialists (read tobacco industry)
    probably have killed someone we all loved. The worst of 
    these was Sam Bernays who spearheaded this cancerous
    campaign.

        John who_is_really_a_libertarian_but_whos_how_to
	     recognise_true_freedom

    Tobacco and alcohol are legal because large numbers of people
    want them now, and have wanted them in the past.  The other
    illegal drugs may have large number of users right now, but did
    not have so many in the past.  However, there are and have been
    enough users of marijuana that it is semi-decriminialized.
    Nothing really popular stays actively illegal for long, though
    it may spend a long time nominally illegal but practically ok.
    
    As far as .9 goes, a real libertarian does not believe in making
    any drug illegal to own or use, as libertarians do not recognize
    "his (or her) own good" as sufficient grounds for coercion of an
    adult.  They do recognize fraud, so if you believe that the cigarette
    makers knew that tobacco caused cancer but advertisted it as harmless
    even so, then you would have a case.  Since the imposition of
    the government health warnings this case is void.

    				-John Bishop

Re .-n reminds me of an old riddle:

What's the difference between a drunk and an alcoholic ?



All those damn meetings !



On a more serious note, I believe discussions about alcohol are
quite relevant to human relations.

Also, questions about legality are quite intertwined with human relations.
It's HUMANS that make and break the laws, according to interpersonal
relations.

/Eric

    OK, fine.
    
    Please note that I came right out and said that alcohol and human
    relations are not disjoint sets.  I was suggesting (not declaring)
    that the politics of legalization might not be.  Eric raised a
    different point, and by gosh, as frequently happens with thinking
    human beings, he's right.
    
    SOAPBOX was just another place where this was discussed, and I thought
    people might be interested in looking at the stuff.  Excuse me.
    
    DFW

    I happen to feel that this discussion is appropriate to H_R as stated
    by others before me.
    
    Many people do not know how to interact with others without the
    influence of a mind-altering chemical.  It's a hard thing to learn
    when you have anesthised yourself all your life.  I for one am
    attempting to learn just that.  And appreciate hearing others opinions.
    
    Angeline

        I just came across this note. I'm a bit behind in Human-
        Relations having had a couple of short vacations lately, and a
        work deadline staring me in the face.
        
        As one of the moderators, I really believe that it is not
        appropriate to discuss the political aspects of this topic (or
        any other) in H-R. Alcohol and its affects on people and on
        their relationships is an appropriate topic. Let's just leave
        out the debate on legislative control of alchohol, OK?
        
        JimB. 
        
        PS: Human-Relations is NOT Sexcetera, and it is not a sequel to
        Sexcetera. The misapprehension that it is *just another sex
        file* has already caused us a bit of grief with DEC officialdom
        (nothing that affects the conference or its existence, just
        something that makes it a little hard on the moderators), so it
        would really help if people didn't talk about it as if it were.
        Thank you. And now back to the discussion at hand... 

.0 Jim, thanks for entering this piece, I must confess that I ripped
    it and put a copy of it without your name on it in the ODIXIE::AA
    notes file.
    
.11 (in my opinion) should say:

	What's the difference between a drunk and an alcoholic?

	DRUNKS DON'T HAVE TO ATTEND THOSE DAMNED MEETINGS

.13 leads .15 to say "It IS difficult, Angel !!!" however, there is a very
simple program for very complex people (both YUPPIE and non-YUPPIE alike)
and there is a conference on the subject.  Please refer to 29.52 here in
H_R for further instructions.  To you, Steven_Dana, it is the fortunate
Eagle or Eaglette who comes to roost in the basement of a church (joins and
follows an appropriate program).

Bill G.............

    From the header titled "An Old Love", I thought this would be about an old 
    love like one in an old relationship and someone you haven't gotten over...
    .  not alcohol!  You might want to change the title.....

    >From the header titled "An Old Love", I thought this would be about an old 
    >love like one in an old relationship [...]

    It was -- that's the whole point.