Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Hmmmm... this is an interesting topic.  When I first met my husband,
    I met him via a VAX 11/780.  I had no idea what he looked like and
    after sending MAIL back and forth and TALKing (predecessor to PHONE)
    for a couple of weeks, I didn't really care what he looked like.
     When we finally met face to face, no, he didn't look like my 'ideal
    man'... in fact, quite the opposite.  I had always 'dreamed' of
    marrying someone tall, dark hair & eyes, and a relatively good body.
     Well, he's got a relatively good body (better than most I've seen),
    but he's blonde haired and blue-eyed.  We just celebrated our
    4th anniversary last week, and must say that our first 2 years were
    very difficult ones, but since then, we've been climbing mountains
    of happiness (doesn't that sound mushy!?!?) ;-).   Daryl's personality
    is almost exactly what I dreamed about, and since I got to know
    his 'insides' before seeing him, I knew I had already met my dream
    guy.
    
    						*** Kristy ***

          
                         This is great stuff!
    
    You bet she's my ideal, never knew it at first though.
    
    Had just split up with my first wife and wanted nothing to do with
    any women. Just wanted to cry in my beer,and did I ever!..That's
    another story.Anyway after a while I came to my senses! Love those
    senses! The only guy in a all women apartment building. One day
    at the local club I meet this dynamic woman,quiet,warm and honest.
    
    So after seeing eachother from time to time and sharing a few beers
    we had a date. She was also divorced and didn't want to get tied
    down either.This went on for a while,whenever we were free from
    others we went out like pals. Well little by little I missed not
    being with my "PAL" more and more!
     So I married my friend! My lover.
     Had a wedding you wouldn't believe. Outside, kegs of beer and wine.
     Motorcycles, live bands and hundreds..Good thing we took pictures!
    Can't remember much after the meal! 
    Lasted two days of party hearty and she was right there all along.
    
    After 6 years she is still as much fun as the first day and a really
    great person.
     Ideal you bet.
     My Pal.
     We sit down and talk alot about everything.I give advice and accept
    advice just as easily.
    We share everything around the house..Sometime 50/50 sometimes 90/10
    and sometime 10/90 it all works out.
    She's warm and understanding and I hope I'm the same.
    Looks great in anything,and takes care of herself!
    And I do the same.
    I tell her when she looks good and mean it!
    and on and on.
    She is great but I wasn't looking for her it just happened. And I'm
    lucky it did!
    
    Sorry to ramble on so but I was on a roll.
    
    Later,
    Cal 
    It lasted two days.

    RE:.2
    
    What is the last line suppose to mean?
    

     in re..3
     
                Still new at this! Just read my whole message
    it's pretty good the last part is really a kicker! HA HA.
    
    No it's still going. Must have fat fingered somewhere along
    there.
    Sorry for the confusion,it does look kind of strange.
    
    Later.
    
    Cal.
    

    Ideal Person for me?
    The Girl of my dreams?
       First things first - throw out Playboy
       Next - close my eyes (I don't want to see)
       Finally - open my mind and ears
          (shades of the pinball wiz but I do want to hear)

        I guess what I'm getting at is I don't, and never did have a mental
    picture or additude about the ideal person.  I did meet the person
    who I could concider perfect for me ("AT THE TIME") but she was out
    of my reach on a long term basis.  We were friends for a full year
    and then one evening when a group of us from the hotel went dancing,
    it happened. We became the best of PALs (PDP-8 Paper tape?) like
    Cal stated in his note.  But it was short lived, not because of 
    the absence of love (I think it was - but then what is love?) between
    us.  It just wasn't ment to be.  I did marry someone who I wasn't
    comfortable with, and it didn't last.

    Maybe I should come up with what I think the Ideal woman for me
    would be.  I wish I knew.

    One question though - If we set our Ideals - might we then be putting
    on blinders for all the rest of the friends we might otherwise meet
    and get to know?
    
    Who was it that said --
      "I'ld much rather have loved and lost than never have loved at all"

    
    Tankards high to friends -
    Lee

    P.S. Hope the next one I marry has a good sense of motion.

    A good sense of motion?  I could interpet that in a million different
    ways.  Maybe you want to define that one.  :-)
    
    When I say ideal I am really looking close at the types of people
    you dealt with.  For instance, where most of your girlfriends of
    the same type (height, weight, hair color, etc) and where you aware
    and did you marry that type and did it work out.  Also, did your
    parents help put an image in your mind and how close to that image
    did you come.  Also include into etc did they go to college, modeling
    school, have rich parents, all that.  
    
    I have a real interest in how all this plays together in marriages.
    I have such a variety of likes and my ideal man does have an image
    that I can define, or at least he did have an image.  That's another
    story.
    
    Karen
    

        I dated girls of all sorts both physically and in terms of
        personality and background. My first finac�e was a busty
        working-class girl with an effervescent personality. Most of my
        girlfriends tended to be slight in build, quiet, college bound,
        with longish light colored hair. 
        
        From shortly after I met my wife, my ideal woman and Selma have
        matched fairly closely. Other girls I got involved with could be
        more beatiful or smarter or whatever, but the were never as
        close a match to my ideal--her--as she was. 
        
        For example in physical terms, when we got married she was
        slender with "more than a handful is a waste" breasts. After the
        birth of our first child she is more shall we say "Rubinesque"
        in proportions, and my ideal suddenly became plumper and
        bustier. The kind of figure that will turn my head passing in
        the corridor has definitely tracked my wife.
        
        In many other ways, Selma is my ideal and as she changes so doe
        the ideal. They may not precisely match (I think my ideal
        physically is a little more like the old Selma than the current
        Selma is, for instance), but the standard definitely tracks her.
        
        JimB.

    Karen-
	And everyone else,
    Sometimes I understand exactly what I say and it makes total sense.
    Sometimes others understand what I say, and it's probably because
    they know me.  Perhaps sometime all of you will know me well enough
    so I can make a few comments and not seem obscure or out of color.
    My fault.

<   A good sense of motion?  I could interpet that in a million different
<   ways.  Maybe you want to define that one.  :-)
    
    I'm a sailor at hart as I spend about 12 to 15 hours a day on the
    ocean.  I am totally use to the rocking motions my boat does and
    I don't even notice it.  During the winter though, I spend about
    4 months trying to get use to solid ground just in time to move
    back to the boat.  Thus a good sense of motion or not as the case
    may be.   And a good harted comment that was lost.

    The women I've dated and the one I married did have two things
    in common,  They were all taller than me by at least 2 inches.
    The tallest being 6'2" and my ex wife 5'6". I'm only 5'4".
    The second, none of them smoked cigarettes and I do.  Hopefully,
    this record will be broken shortly but I don't mind looking up
    to a woman, physically and figurativly.

    All of the women I've dated were under 200 lbs, the lightest
    being only about 110.  Their physical attributes varied just
    as much.  My ex was well endowed but not well proportioned.
    Another I dated was both and a third well lets say the doctor
    mistoke them for boils and recommended bandaids.

    If I can remember, the color of hair varied accross the board.
    Strawberry blond wasn't too bad.

    The Likes and dislikes were just as varied.  Sports, travel,
    outdoors, "indoors", parties, and one liked to watch TV.

    The education - all but one graduated from college and one had
    a masters in chemistry.  One was just barely able to make it
    thru high school.

    None of them fit the discription of my mother or my sister.
    When I married my ex, I was trying to fill a void from a previous
    relationship.  A very memorable relationship which left me in
    a down state of mind to say the least.  My ex wasn't too bad
    of a woman and she had no more faults then anyone else.  What
    her faults were, I will leave out of this conference.  I don't
    have the right to discuss them since she is not here to defend
    herself.  If you ask, I may discuss some of my faults and
    short commings if I feel comfortable about discussing them
    with you, but I will not discuss someone elses.  I know you
    didn't ask.

        The reason as to why the marriage failed was me.
    I'll be one of the handfull of DEC Noters which will accept
    full blame and that took me about 5 years to realize.

    My ideal woman - I've not formulated what she looks like or
    what her personality is like.  I try to get to know the person
    and then decide if she might be compatable.  I then look at
    the comfort scale and if it's not too bad then I would like
    to see the relationship develop.  Maybe this is the wrong way
    of doing things.  I just don't know but we'll have to wait and
    see.

    More questions?  I'll try to be as open as possible and try
    to spend enough time so you can understand.  Self expression
    is not one of my best traits.

    Sail towards the sun and enjoy.

    Lee    

    Doesn't your IDEAL change???  Mine sure as hell did.  I have been
    married for three months (and 3 days) and I married my IDEAL girl.
    She was not my IDEAL girl when I started college, I had a different
    IDEAL then, BOY did I have a different IDEAL.  I used to think that
    I would (could) be happy with the best "looker", thank God I woke
    up!   I don't think I am the only person whose IDEAL has changed.  
    
    	My wife is shy yet outgoing, slim but she doen't have to hold
    onto a tree in a wind storm, sure of herself but not vain, attactive
    but will never be asked to be in PLAYBOY.  Smart too! 
    That's it my IDEAL wife.
    
    	Will my IDEAL change again....Only if my wife changes!
    
    Ok how may are saying  "Just wait a year or so..." be honest!
    
    mac

    My personal opinion.
        I think the concept of ideal man/women should be thrown out!!!
    What is this concept anyway?  I fear that for many people, it is
    an image that no one can meet that gets in the way of appreciating
    real people for what they are.  This seems to be related to the
    phenomonon of waiting for the ideal person to come along
    (princess/prince in shining armor- (princess in shining armor?)).
    I am afraid that we are stuck with real people with real flaws just
    like we have.  Let's get on with the business of living.  I consider
    growth potential much more that some static picture of what a person
    is or should be...
    

    Someone who is not intimidated by my glorious culinary
    creativity.

    
    I think when you find someone that has a compatible outlook on life,
    is affectionate and caring and wants to share ... well then you
    have struck ideal!...  Sure there is a type of 'physical' appearance
    that will turn my head every time.. he is about 5' 6".. has dark
    hair (usually curly).. is a little stocky maybe with one of those
    real distinguished noses (crazy about distinguished noses!).. walks
    nice.. ya know stands up straight and sure and wears his clothes
    like he is real comfortable in them...  this guy has walked by me
    many times and EVERY time I look.. he is not always the same person
    but just someone that fits that general sort of description.. now
    have I ever dated anyone that looks like that?.. just once and only
    twice did I go out with him before he traded my in for a girl momma
    liked better! :-).. but that is just a dream ideal... it is a
    description of a person that I find attractive.  I don't expect
    to marry someone that fits that description or even ever go out
    with someone like that.. it is just the kind of guy that would turn
    my heard for some strange reason..  
                                                                    
    I think we need to be careful about expecting people to live up
    to a fantasy.. and not confuse a fantasy with our ideal.. we might
    never be happy if we allow that to happen!
    
    later, gailann

    I agree with the general drift of Jim Burrows' comments - when I
    got married, I had a very loose definition of an "ideal woman",
    and I still do.  My definition doesn't include any specific
    "packaging" - to me, it's what's inside that counts.  Of course,
    attractive packaging is a bonus, but I have often found that the
    women I've been most attracted to were not conventionally "beautiful".
    (I know, I said this in an earlier note.)
    
    Anyway, my wife, when I married her, did fit my notion of "ideal",
    as close as I could make it out to be, and she was very attractive
    too!.  As I changed and as she changed, my "ideal" changed along 
    with her.  Unfortunately, in the last couple of years of our 
    marriage, things started being not-so-ideal, but I loved her anyway,
    because I thought the problems could be solved and we could be
    happy again, but she disagreed, and we separated.

    I'm now of the opinion that there are many "ideal women" for me
    in the world - and I've just got to go look for them - a concept
    that is fairly new to me, so I'm just learning how to look.
    
    						Steve

    I've never had any idea of what an "ideal" woman would be for me.
    
    No, none of my SO's have been the most beautiful/sexy/attractive/
    whatever women I've known. It didn't matter. I can dream about
    Jane Seymour all I want, but she isn't "mine". In general, though,
    my SO's have had a personality that I get along with, that match
    mine, etc. I suppose this might be considered ideal.
    
    I should perhaps alos point out that I have certain physical
    preferences in women, but that few of my SO's have matched all
    of those preferences.
    
    --- jerry

    I have a dream...
    My reality is a lady who helps me be me and straightens me out when
    I not being me. She is not miss-any-body but she is somebody who
    cares for me and those that I care for. If she is writing this reply,
    I'm sure that she'd write the same thing.
    
    My dream was younger girls (18-25) but that was what they turned
    out to be, girls... My dream was the perfect physical specimen but
    she could't leave her ex and his money even though she gets abused
    by him... My dream was an educated, sophisticated lady, she could't
    leave her work tobe with me...
    
    It's nice to have a dream; Judy is my spouse and reality. Judy is
    my best friend.
    
    /cal

I liked reply .15, that says the writer has no "ideal". In my case,
that used to be true, but isn't anymore.

I met my wife almost 30 years ago... I was "on the rebound" and
couldn't help but make comparisons. She wasn't as smart as my previous
SO, though a lot wiser (if you know what I mean). She was nowhere
as good looking. She was a lot more fun to be with, had an innate
understanding of people and life, and a sharp sense of humour.

So, we fell in love and got married, which shows she was also
courageous and proves that --no matter how wise one is-- mistakes
are always possible. By that I mean to say that she deserved a lot
better than what she got in me. That was almost 28 years ago.

Now, as I look back (I have been married to the lady more years
than I have not been married to her), I finally know what my ideal
woman is. It took me a long time to find out...

-- Ron

    My husband was *nothing* like my "dream man".  It just always
    felt right being with him. 
    
    After 4 years of marriage, I can say he is still not the "ideal"
    mate for me if life were perfect.  But he's a terrific husband,
    and I'm much happier married to him, than if I weren't.
    
    If I could, there are certainly things I'd change about him.  But
    there are things I'd change about myself too.  So in an imperfect
    world, I rate my husband a 9.  (I can dream about a 10)
    
    
    Jacki
    

     re 52.0  Final question<< "Does love conquer all"
         I found my ideal, a person who I love very much. One that loves
    me very much. Am I her ideal? Don't know! But love and ideals didn't
    conquer all. She left me, and I'll never find another so perfect.
       Why didn't it work? As Lee said in 52.9; I'll stand up for what
    I did. It was my fault. I am responsible for it not working, but
    not because I didn't love her or find her ideal.
    
     re 52.6  < Who was it that said- "I'd rather have loved and lost
                than to never have loved at all.">
        Don't know, but they obviously never found love with their ideal.
        Nothing is the same after that.
        You can still laugh, but not all your laughter, and you can
        still weep, but not all your tears.

    
    re: .19
    never find another so perfect?
    
    isn't this a little self defeating?
    pre-conditioning?
    
    haven't you been listening to me rant and rave?
    you think i do this to waste disk space and computer power?
    you think it's fun trying to educate and civilize primitive
    aborigines?
    
    well it isn't!
    it's no fun at all!
    i only do it cus i woke one night and there, in the middle of
    my bedroom, all aflame! was this big green bush!
    
    and a voice said...
    	"rik, these people are getting the whole thing all wrong...
    	they are making themselves miserable and unhappy for noting!
    	errr...that's notHing...Please talk to them?"
    
    so what could i do?
    how could i refuse a flaming bush?
    
    	there are millions of people you haven;t met
    	the last relationship was just the first (or second or third)
    and there can be more!
    	it doesn't matter!
    	take love when/where it comes and stop making your self so
    neurotically unhappy over uncontrollable and perfectly normal
    events!
    	most relationships only last a certain period of time and
    it's ok when a relationship ends...
    
    	didn't you hear woody talk about the dead shark?
    	sure you did...you even laughed...
    

    
    my first relationship wasn't my ideal...
    but we loved each otehr and had a wonderfull time.
    
    my second relationship was not my ideal
    but we loved each other and had a great time.
    
    my current relationship isn't my ideal (lorna, you don't make
    breakfast!) but we love each other and are having a wonderfull time!
    
    i have no ideal.
    i don't think or care about "the ideal woman for me"
    whatever love comes my way is perfectly acceptable.
    

    Once upon a time, I was in a second dead-end relationship, and trying
    to decide whether I should do the smart thing and end it, or not
    do anything at all.  During this decision making process, I had
    a dream on night of a man so familiar to me that I recognized him
    instantly--yet we had never met.  My dream was so intense that it
    woke me up, and I immediately asked myself, "Who was that man?"
    The answer returned immediately, "That is your soulmate," a word
    I'd only heard in passing.  As time went on, I had several more
    dreams of this person, each more intense than the first.  These
    dreams helped me to deal with the breakup of an unhealthy relationship,
    and sustained me during the recovery process.  I always believed
    in these dreams, and knew that someday I would meet the man I had
    dreamed about.
    
    Eighteen months later, I saw the man in my dreams for the first
    time, and knew that he was special.  Several months later, we met,
    and two and a half years later, married.  After two+ years of marriage,
    I still believe he is my soulmate.  So yes, my dreamed of "ideal"
    is still "ideal" for me.  We grow together and are well-suited.
    What more could I ask?
    
    Barb

    I ask myself sometimes why I love the guy that I do.  We are really
    different.  I'm a little off the wall, he's more closed.  I like
    to do more intellectual things, he more playful.  We disagree on
    almost every political issue, but I love him to death.  He smokes
    a pack of cigerettes a day, I don't smoke.  I'll take an asprin,
    he won't.  I dream alot, he doesn't.  I love the west coast, he's
    a southern boy.
    
    But we're bonded if we like it or not.  Divorce didn't even cure
    it.  Of course we have 2 kids together.  
    
    After our divorce, the guys I dated were nothing at all like him.
     Especially, this past year.  They all fit more with my personality,
    but I don't know what it is.  When I see him, I'm crazy.
    
    We're trying it again.  I wonder how'd he respond to this question.

re. -1

>>    After our divorce, the guys I dated were nothing at all like him.
>>     Especially, this past year.  They all fit more with my personality,
>>    but I don't know what it is.  When I see him, I'm crazy.
    
	Wow!   I loved reading your reply!

	thats wonderful... I wish you the best and all the happiness.

	........thanks for writing that, it made me smile -especially the
last line.  "when I see him, I'm crazy"...Cute!..8-)

	Mikki